Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

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timtamWB

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Don't worry I'm not a doggies fan pretend or otherwise. Ok maybe just for tonight. Everyone likes seeing the tiger bandwagon come crashing to a halt...again. If you don't want McCartney I'm happy for us to take him back. Maybe you could send Stringer and Macrae with him?
In return I expect Motlop, Duncan and Christensen :D
 

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_Mike_

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3 wins and 9 losses after 13 rounds.. The rate we're going we'll be lucky to win another 2 which puts us in the same position last year.

He's doing ok developing the younger players but he's definitely looking out of his league when it comes to using existing game experience in the right way
 

fred cook

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3 wins and 9 losses after 13 rounds.. The rate we're going we'll be lucky to win another 2 which puts us in the same position last year.

He's doing ok developing the younger players but he's definitely looking out of his league when it comes to using existing game experience in the right way
Thats why he needs a senior AFL coach next to him in 2014

Not a Bubba Smith or one of his Geelong cronies a coach who has experience at a high level and has the right to monitor and judge his plans

To name a few Gary Ayres, Brett Ratten ,Matthew Knights feel free to add
 
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Watched the recent games from behind our goals, moving at the end of each quarter aka western oval experiences; it has been very informative, we rarely have a tall isolated and leading as opponents do and when marko was outmarked by seedsman, that was the end of him for me. Roberts has potential but has been injured for months, we need a forward structure to score.
 

_Mike_

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To name a few Gary Ayres, Brett Ratten ,Matthew Knights feel free to add
If we're to go down that road it should be someone with the experience of what it takes to get a team into the grand final, and win it.

Who does that leave? Roos, Williams (Chocco), Matthews (doubt he would return to coaching), Thompson.
 

Proffessor

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As previously posted. We don't need an experienced coach to help McCartney. We need one to replace him.
Why would someone like Williams want to mentor McCartney who is only 2 years younger then him. Why would he leave his existing position for a job like that?

What does McCartney actually bring to the table that would make it worth while for the club to keep him around?

He is not a young coach with outstanding playing credentials who just needs a bit of guidance while he gains the wisdom of experience in terms of people management.

If the club wants someone like Williams (and I hope they do) then go and get him quickly before Melbourne does. Say a polite thanks and goodbye to McCartney, and move on.
 

_Mike_

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If the club wants someone like Williams (and I hope they do) then go and get him quickly before Melbourne does. Say a polite thanks and goodbye to McCartney, and move on.
hypothetically, should the club feel that McCartney is not the answer then the decision should be made earlier rather than later.

however from all reports and opinions within the club, this is extremely unlikely to happen any time soon
 

Bodicifer

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We don't need a new coach...we need some patience and support. We are on the right track. Lachie Hunter, another debutant who looks a player going forward. In a couple of years we are going to have a number of good players with 50 odd+ games under their belts like Hunter, Stringer, Stevens, Hrovat, Smith, Dahly, Jones, Roughy, Johannisen, Tallia, Wallis, Libba, Macrae etc. I'm confident we'll be playing good finals footy in a couple of years again. Look at Geelong, look at Collingwood, look at Hawthorn...look at Richmond...stick to your guns and you can go from the bottom to the top in a few years. I'm right behind Macca and I strongly believe he is the answer. I'm actually excited at our prospects. If we keep the core together we will be a very good side. I'm going to games now not bothering with the scoreboard either way, I just want to see our kids progress and develop. Now's the time to be all pushing in the one direction, not trying to take blokes out, especially the coach. I reckon if you can't see glimpses of the positive direction we are heading then you need to open your eyes a little wider.
 

Proffessor

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We don't need a new coach...we need some patience and support. We are on the right track. Lachie Hunter, another debutant who looks a player going forward. In a couple of years we are going to have a number of good players with 50 odd+ games under their belts like Hunter, Stringer, Stevens, Hrovat, Smith, Dahly, Jones, Roughy, Johannisen, Tallia, Wallis, Libba, Macrae etc. I'm confident we'll be playing good finals footy in a couple of years again. Look at Geelong, look at Collingwood, look at Hawthorn...look at Richmond...stick to your guns and you can go from the bottom to the top in a few years. I'm right behind Macca and I strongly believe he is the answer. I'm actually excited at our prospects. If we keep the core together we will be a very good side. I'm going to games now not bothering with the scoreboard either way, I just want to see our kids progress and develop. Now's the time to be all pushing in the one direction, not trying to take blokes out, especially the coach. I reckon if you can't see glimpses of the positive direction we are heading then you need to open your eyes a little wider.
News flash: Games of professional football are played weekly and the winners determined according to which one registers the largest total on a score board. The winners are generally the teams that play the game better than the opposition.

Coaches typically choose the players they think will make the best combination on a weekly basis, and advise them regarding things such as playing position, playing style, etc. on a daily basis. As much as people like to think that they can predict the future, they can't. Just because we select young players now does not mean that we will be a great side in the future. Sure players improve naturally as they mature, but they can also get injured, lose confidence, plateau, regress, and leave for greener pastures.

The team that showed the most patience and support for a youth rebuilding program is Melbourne and look where it has taken them.

After more than a year and a half with McCartney as senior coach, and after taking over a competitive side, the best spin that his supporters can point to is "glimpses of the positive direction we are heading".

If you hadn't noticed McCartney has only won 8 games in just over a season and a half. We won 9 in 2010, immediately before he took over, which was Eade's worst season result with the dogs.

The direction we are heading is negative not positive. No need to look for glimpses, the evidence is obvious and will not change if you look at it directly.
 

GetDimmaBack

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News flash: Games of professional football are played weekly and the winners determined according to which one registers the largest total on a score board. The winners are generally the teams that play the game better than the opposition.

Coaches typically choose the players they think will make the best combination on a weekly basis, and advise them regarding things such as playing position, playing style, etc. on a daily basis. As much as people like to think that they can predict the future, they can't. Just because we select young players now does not mean that we will be a great side in the future. Sure players improve naturally as they mature, but they can also get injured, lose confidence, plateau, regress, and leave for greener pastures.

The team that showed the most patience and support for a youth rebuilding program is Melbourne and look where it has taken them.

After more than a year and a half with McCartney as senior coach, and after taking over a competitive side, the best spin that his supporters can point to is "glimpses of the positive direction we are heading".

If you hadn't noticed McCartney has only won 8 games in just over a season and a half. We won 9 in 2010, immediately before he took over, which was Eade's worst season result with the dogs.

The direction we are heading is negative not positive. No need to look for glimpses, the evidence is obvious and will not change if you look at it directly.
So, in a nutshell, you'd prefer we'd continue on as we have for the last 50+ years?

Every other coach we've had in that time has tried and, ultimately, failed. McCartney takes on a from-the-ground-up rebuild and you want to sack him?

...and replace him with...?
 

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Anja_Nees

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So, in a nutshell, you'd prefer we'd continue on as we have for the last 50+ years?

Every other coach we've had in that time has tried and, ultimately, failed. McCartney takes on a from-the-ground-up rebuild and you want to sack him?

...and replace him with...?
I don't think many of us question that he has taken on a comprehensive rebuild and that it will take time to become a good side. Some just wonder whether the results could have been better during this time. My take has been, and I think many share it, that as long as the kids are improving he should keep his job. I think in general they've showed a bit. If, however, we lose to Melbourne or GWS I still think it's fair that some question his position.

As it stands, I expect we'll win three or four more and I think most agree that he should at least be retained until next year if he does that. I don't think it's healthy to just accept, however, that he has a big task and we're going to be crap for a long period. There needs to be some sort of a yardstick and our performances deserve some scrutiny.

I found the results against St Kilda and Port reassuring (particularly now that Port has rebounded in the following weeks). I acknowledge he has a list which is packed with players either at the start of their careers or close to the end, with too few in their peak years (and most of those that are being injured). It doesn't exempt him from scrutiny though.

I think it's fair to query why Grant, Vez and Sherman have ended up the way they have, when all offer some of what we lack. Why does Wallis appear to have gone backwards this year? It could be that the first three simply refused to try hard enough or wouldn't fall into line. It could be that they could have been brought into line. I also think most on this board agree that changing our mix to include a bit more pace and skill at the expense of some plodders has worked. Most saw it as a problem earlier and yet nothing was done for a long time. It could be there are very good answers to these questions but it's fair to ask them.

I don't agree with those who suggest he should be sacked now. I can understand some of their criticisms though.
 

Bodicifer

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News flash: Games of professional football are played weekly and the winners determined according to which one registers the largest total on a score board. The winners are generally the teams that play the game better than the opposition.

Coaches typically choose the players they think will make the best combination on a weekly basis, and advise them regarding things such as playing position, playing style, etc. on a daily basis. As much as people like to think that they can predict the future, they can't. Just because we select young players now does not mean that we will be a great side in the future. Sure players improve naturally as they mature, but they can also get injured, lose confidence, plateau, regress, and leave for greener pastures.

The team that showed the most patience and support for a youth rebuilding program is Melbourne and look where it has taken them.

After more than a year and a half with McCartney as senior coach, and after taking over a competitive side, the best spin that his supporters can point to is "glimpses of the positive direction we are heading".

If you hadn't noticed McCartney has only won 8 games in just over a season and a half. We won 9 in 2010, immediately before he took over, which was Eade's worst season result with the dogs.

The direction we are heading is negative not positive. No need to look for glimpses, the evidence is obvious and will not change if you look at it directly.

You're kidding me aren't you??? So "proffessor (sic), You'll notice the two bolded sentences above...can you spell hypocrisy? You can predict we are going down but nobody else can predict we are going up? Good argument there:rolleyes: I bet you're a glass half empty type. You look at Melbournes rebuilding but fail to mention the successful rebuilds in the last decade or so like Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn etc.
 

doggiesmrx

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News flash: Games of professional football are played weekly and the winners determined according to which one registers the largest total on a score board. The winners are generally the teams that play the game better than the opposition.

Coaches typically choose the players they think will make the best combination on a weekly basis, and advise them regarding things such as playing position, playing style, etc. on a daily basis. As much as people like to think that they can predict the future, they can't. Just because we select young players now does not mean that we will be a great side in the future. Sure players improve naturally as they mature, but they can also get injured, lose confidence, plateau, regress, and leave for greener pastures.

The team that showed the most patience and support for a youth rebuilding program is Melbourne and look where it has taken them.

After more than a year and a half with McCartney as senior coach, and after taking over a competitive side, the best spin that his supporters can point to is "glimpses of the positive direction we are heading".

If you hadn't noticed McCartney has only won 8 games in just over a season and a half. We won 9 in 2010, immediately before he took over, which was Eade's worst season result with the dogs.

The direction we are heading is negative not positive. No need to look for glimpses, the evidence is obvious and will not change if you look at it directly.
So we should be expecting our young side to be smashing teams this year in order to see a bright future?
We are playing plenty of players that are still young and are still developing. With this - we are going to be drafting another few 18 year olds going into 2014. Seeing glimpses is probably the only way we are going to see how our future is going to be and you would have to be blind to not see positive glimpses from Stringer, Macrae, Hunter, Hrovat, Roughead, Talia, Dahlhaus etc. Nobody knows how their 'side' is going to be in the future and if they will gel etc - but we can sure as hell see positive glimpses from all our youngsters so far. If anyone can't see this - they are deadset kidding themselves. Your post is utter crap - and if you feel so strongly about this - why don't you tell us what we should be doing INSTEAD? We are drafting and playing kids - isn't that how you are suppose to start from the ground up?
 

Libba39

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I'm happy to stick with Mcartney but just not sure why he doesn't try a few more things on game day. J.Riewaldt was too quick for Roughead and too big for Morris and yet we wouldn't even try Talia for a qtr?

Also I can't even remember the last time Minson went forward for a spell or Dahlhaus spent a qtr in the middle.
 

gimp!

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Coaches typically choose the players they think will make the best combination on a weekly basis, and advise them regarding things such as playing position, playing style, etc. on a daily basis. As much as people like to think that they can predict the future, they can't. Just because we select young players now does not mean that we will be a great side in the future. Sure players improve naturally as they mature, but they can also get injured, lose confidence, plateau, regress, and leave for greener pastures.
Excuse me sir, but you seem to be. You are already dead set on us needing a new coach. You are looking at current numbers and making predictions on the future of McCartney's coaching tenure based on this. This would be fair enough, if you actually looked at the numbers factually, and not to twist them to support your own agenda. I will address this fact.
The team that showed the most patience and support for a youth rebuilding program is Melbourne and look where it has taken them.
Other teams that have shown patience and support for a "youth rebuilding program":
Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Fremantle, GCS, GWS, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Richmond, St Kilda, West Coast. I have left Sydney out because they are afforded concessions by the AFL which allow them to remain at least semi competitive.. You see, it's the circle of football life.

I am not sure why you are implying that Bulldogs supporters are being more patient than any other club who has gone through this exact position, particularly after falling heavily after a successful period of playing finals.
After more than a year and a half with McCartney as senior coach, and after taking over a competitive side, the best spin that his supporters can point to is "glimpses of the positive direction we are heading". If you hadn't noticed McCartney has only won 8 games in just over a season and a half. We won 9 in 2010, immediately before he took over, which was Eade's worst season result with the dogs.
Continuing to ignore evidence that he took over a once competitive side on a serious decline is incredibly foolish, and it only adds fuel to the fire that you have an agenda against the man.

You also ignore that Rocket took on a list that was factually in an upward trend. More importantly, you also ignore that McCartney took on a list that was factually on a downward trend:

Looking at results in isolation from 2011 (not 2010) when we won 9 games, this included 6 losses by over 40 points, which included a 123 point loss. Do these results indicate a team on any sort of positive trend going into the next season?
The direction we are heading is negative not positive. No need to look for glimpses, the evidence is obvious and will not change if you look at it directly.
Since you have been predicting the future throughout this whole thread, I am going to make a small, somewhat safe prediction for what's to come for the remainder of 2013. We should win a minimum of 3 more matches for the season. I don't care where they come from, but we play Melbourne x2 and GWS x1. I am comfortable in making this prediction.
Having said that:

The graph indicates that by the end of 2013, the Bulldogs should be trending in a positive direction re: wins per season under Brendan McCartney.

I, as a responsible, level headed person, will wait for this time to re-assess which direction the club is actually heading in.
 

immortalmike

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I'm happy to stick with Mcartney but just not sure why he doesn't try a few more things on game day. J.Riewaldt was too quick for Roughead and too big for Morris and yet we wouldn't even try Talia for a qtr?

Also I can't even remember the last time Minson went forward for a spell or Dahlhaus spent a qtr in the middle.
Really? I thought they stopped Jack well enough considering how easy Richmond got the ball into their forward fifty.

Also Dahl played a half in the middle against Collingwood.
 

ThirdLegUp

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Excuse me sir, but you seem to be. You are already dead set on us needing a new coach. You are looking at current numbers and making predictions on the future of McCartney's coaching tenure based on this. This would be fair enough, if you actually looked at the numbers factually, and not to twist them to support your own agenda. I will address this fact.

Other teams that have shown patience and support for a "youth rebuilding program":
Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Fremantle, GCS, GWS, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Richmond, St Kilda, West Coast. I have left Sydney out because they are afforded concessions by the AFL which allow them to remain at least semi competitive.. You see, it's the circle of football life.

I am not sure why you are implying that Bulldogs supporters are being more patient than any other club who has gone through this exact position, particularly after falling heavily after a successful period of playing finals.

Continuing to ignore evidence that he took over a once competitive side on a serious decline is incredibly foolish, and it only adds fuel to the fire that you have an agenda against the man.

You also ignore that Rocket took on a list that was factually in an upward trend. More importantly, you also ignore that McCartney took on a list that was factually on a downward trend:

Looking at results in isolation from 2011 (not 2010) when we won 9 games, this included 6 losses by over 40 points, which included a 123 point loss. Do these results indicate a team on any sort of positive trend going into the next season?

Since you have been predicting the future throughout this whole thread, I am going to make a small, somewhat safe prediction for what's to come for the remainder of 2013. We should win a minimum of 3 more matches for the season. I don't care where they come from, but we play Melbourne x2 and GWS x1. I am comfortable in making this prediction.
Having said that:

The graph indicates that by the end of 2013, the Bulldogs should be trending in a positive direction re: wins per season under Brendan McCartney.

I, as a responsible, level headed person, will wait for this time to re-assess which direction the club is actually heading in.
LOL. great post. if i could like that x100 i would. Totally over the sack the coach stuff, it's been a year and a half... WTF! 1.5 years isn't enough time to learn a game plan consistently let alone rebuild a squad. Melbournes issues stemmed from far too many Professors, Earnies and Atheneians. thus another coach was sacked 1.5 years later, and another and another. WHY ARE WE STILL RUBBISH.... really?... A lexus is only run in after 250k km gents. Those with patients, get the cookies, those without break the jar...and eat glass sprinkled cookies...

You shouldbe a bit more civilised Los Gimp and warn them to lube up next time before bringing the big daddy out. Pie charts bitches! hehehe
 

Proffessor

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Why don't you graph Eade's and McCartney's results both on the same set of axes?

Also plotting guesses and trying to draw conclusions from the resulting graph is a rather dubious strategy.
 

wian

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something i dont get which has been alluded to in another thread is why on earth is he playing cooney down back? I just dont get it ? If anything, he should be playing up forward.... He adds nothing down back, so i am questioning this coaching strategy , especially when Murphy, JJ and Easton wood are more suited to this role...
 

Butane

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Let's reverse the question.

Is there anything that Macca could do in the next 12 weeks that would get him sacked?

Without being silly about it, I propose that there is nothing that can get him sacked as long as he just plays it safe by blooding youngsters and always having that to fall back on.
 

wian

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One thing i would like to see more of is taking the game on, kicking direct and not chipping it around all the bloody time... I would tell the players to not be scared of being pinged for holding the ball and to take the game on... I want to see some long, direct kicks into dangerous positions deep forward 50 !

We are so painfully slow when we chip the ball around anyway ! And when we swing the ball to the other side from defense, its really embarrassing as we are so slow that we dont achieve anything anyway ! This tactic is laughable and too bloody safe !

I know it takes time to develop this, but we need to learn to run in waves as we go forward also like richmond did saturday....
 

the dog's kennel

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Why don't you graph Eade's and McCartney's results both on the same set of axes?

Also plotting guesses and trying to draw conclusions from the resulting graph is a rather dubious strategy.
Haha, I have to say even though I completely agree with LG's opinion, I think the Proff is right.

Those graphs were both mathematically dubious (check out the creative usage of Y-axes) and applied in a rather slippery fashion.

Nevertheless, they were interesting and at least LG is throwing something new in there to our circular arguments - it's all just good fun. Let's face it, we all know and understand each other - we're just filling in time for the next 12 months. So seeya again in 5 pages, hey?
 

Anja_Nees

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Let's reverse the question.

Is there anything that Macca could do in the next 12 weeks that would get him sacked?

Without being silly about it, I propose that there is nothing that can get him sacked as long as he just plays it safe by blooding youngsters and always having that to fall back on.
Getting beaten by GWS and Melbourne could do it, whether it would be justified or not. Neeld has already gone and Voss is doing just enough to stall speculation. Rhode was blooding youngsters too but what really hung him was our uncompetitive performances. A loss to either of these sides would get the speculation bubbling.
 
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