Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

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timtamWB

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Please explain?

Libba and johannson are probably the only ones that have gone forward

Cordy jones grant Howard wallis roughy

Markovic Austin Dalhouse have all gone nowhere and most backwards

Don't rate Stringer, Macrae, Hunter, Smith, Talia? Not sure what's happening with Dahl though, Roughy has been developing well but hit a roadblock the past couple of weeks. Although there are some kids that have done well, some that have done not so well. But most of those that haven't developed well I didn't rate in the first place.
 

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Anja_Nees

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Agree, if that is how it pans out, he stays. But have doubts we will go that well for this year tbh, but am happy to be proved wrong.
I'm not asking anyone to select the coach, just explain their thoughts. Most people put some effort into their reason for being pro or anti the coach. Makes for a more interesting and stimulating discussion. Even saying he's not good enough - a simple reason is something, but often even that is not forthcoming. We'll have to disagree on that one ;).
Fair enough. I've been happy to give McCartney the benefit of the doubt until fairly recently. Even now I don't think he should be sacked but forced to call, I think he's in trouble for a few reasons.

First, while some players are developing under him some are not (Wallis and Dahlhaus are struggling this year, Grant, Tutt and Howard have fallen in a hole). It's not possible to say whether another coach would have done better with them, but its worth addressing given development is meant to be a strength.

Two, team selection is all over the place. Wallis is in and out. Picken was widely rated as one of the best taggers in the business a year ago but has now been forced out despite the fact he could probably offer more in the short term (even in a different role) than Hrovat or Dahlhaus, both of whom are struggling. Was Lower really needed? Markovic is a perennial emergency yet gets dropped when he's playing well and then brought back in as a ruck forward. God knows what they were thinking with Austin. We lost games with both and both will most likely be delisted. Why not try Campbell? At least he can ruck. Yes he was awful forward last time but Markovic and Austin were crap as both forwards and rucks. I'm sure there are ways to rationalise his decisions but they frankly look bizarre at times.

Third, our win loss is awful. It's easy to say we were destined for a slide, but could it have been better? Not every side becomes as uncompetitive as we have. Most that do are subjected to serious scrutiny. It was fine while we were losing sort of respectably to good sides. How do we explain losing to awful sides? We've been a better side than Melbourne generally this year but Melbourne has been the worst non expansion side since Fitzroy. Now we've lost to them.

It's easy to snipe at selection after a match and clearly the coaching staff know more than us. Still, why go in with four draftees, a 31 year old that can't run out a game and two inexperienced players returning from injury? It sounds like a recipe for disaster. There might be an explanation but we looked ridiculously stagnant all night.
 

Mattdougie

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Sorry? I'm accepting medoicrity because I pointed out the irony of a poster talking about extreme emotional nonsense in tones of extreme emotional nonsense??!! Ah-ha, I see...

I don't really understand why you're quoting my post, as to a large degree we are on a similar side of the fence, or then again, maybe we aren't.

Fare thee well, minstrel...


I have been called many things in my life but never one such as nice as minstrel

I thank you sir
 

Mattdougie

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Don't rate Stringer, Macrae, Hunter, Smith, Talia? Not sure what's happening with Dahl though, Roughy has been developing well but hit a roadblock the past couple of weeks. Although there are some kids that have done well, some that have done not so well. But most of those that haven't developed well I didn't rate in the first place.
Don't believe it's fair to ate the first year players development as yet.

I missed smith I like him BUT he very similar to Libba and can we carry so many little blokes and Talia hasn't impressed me much but haven't seen alot of him so defer opinion til later date
 

timtamWB

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Don't believe it's fair to ate the first year players development as yet.

I missed smith I like him BUT he very similar to Libba and can we carry so many little blokes and Talia hasn't impressed me much but haven't seen alot of him so defer opinion til later date
I was referring mostly to Macrae, tipped not to even debut this year, but has still come in and played very well.

I wouldn't say Smith is similar to Libba, i'd say he is more an animal to attack the ball/small forward with a good feel for the goals.

But I can definitely see where you're coming from. Every club has good and bad player developments. I think though that our young player development is better now than it was with Eade. Of course that's just my opinion.
 

Nath09

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It was a shit loss, I don't think anyone is arguing against that.

What will sacking the coach achieve other than setting us back?

With a list like the one that we have there are always going to be ups and downs - this "sack the coach" shit, simply isn't the answer. Saying that players have just "gone backwards" is too black and white.

Look at the list, look at the direction the club is taking, calm down.
 
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I was referring mostly to Macrae, tipped not to even debut this year, but has still come in and played very well.

I wouldn't say Smith is similar to Libba, i'd say he is more an animal to attack the ball/small forward with a good feel for the goals.

But I can definitely see where you're coming from. Every club has good and bad player developments. I think though that our young player development is better now than it was with Eade. Of course that's just my opinion.
Maybe we just saw less of our young players under Eade as we were winning most weeks?
 

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ThirdLegUp

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the more posts i read about obvious players out of position, strange changes, refusal to make obvious changes during the game... odd game day tactics. All of which are 100% accurate I'll add...The more i think Bmac and the MC know exactly what they are doing. Only 1 piece of the puzzle remains. Next weeks game.
 

timtamWB

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Maybe we just saw less of our young players under Eade as we were winning most weeks?
Double edged sword isn't it? You can make an argument both ways. We did see less of our young players because we were winning, BUT because we saw less of those young players and they didn't develop, we are in the position we are in now.
 

Mattdougie

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I was referring mostly to Macrae, tipped not to even debut this year, but has still come in and played very well.

I wouldn't say Smith is similar to Libba, i'd say he is more an animal to attack the ball/small forward with a good feel for the goals.

But I can definitely see where you're coming from. Every club has good and bad player developments. I think though that our young player development is better now than it was with Eade. Of course that's just my opinion.

Well that's a given because under Eade we had very little youth development but he didn't do alot in Sydney either so that is not his strength. No doubt that the lack of planning then is hurting us now BUT McCrae is probably only playing do to the lack of development on those who came before him.

Stringer was always going to play being a forward of which we have very little
 
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Double edged sword isn't it? You can make an argument both ways. We did see less of our young players because we were winning, BUT because we saw less of those young players and they didn't develop, we are in the position we are in now.
Yeah it's definitely a double edged sword but a fair few members of our team now debuted pre 2011. I do feel like some players; Grant, Howard, Markovic and Wallis among others have gone backwards in the last season and a half.
 
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What I say is true, sadly. Many a quality poster has felt alienated and left this place and the number of dickheads is steadily increasing. I honestly think it's changing the landscape of the forum. You've been here longer than I - do you see it differently?
Sorry, I was actually highlighting the extreme overly emotional tones in your comment when observing that others were making extreme overly emotional comments. Not meaning to be a smarta**e, just an observation :).

Over time, I have seen some longtime posters depart, but some (and I emphasise some, not all) seemed to think they had a greater right to comment than others based on longevity, or because they had some info from inside the club their contributions were somehow more valuable. There has always been lots of emotion on here, lots of "shoot first, ask questions later". I'm sure I've done it myself if I look back hard enough. A loss, especially one that is unexpected as tonights was, brings out the most extreme hyperbole and emotion in a negative why. And I think regardless of who the current posters on the board are at anytime, this will not change.
I don't think there are any more or less dickheads than usual, either, just the type of comments are more extreme when we get match results like tonight.
There are still lots of good posters on here, some I agree with, and some I don't, but I enjoy reading their posts just the same. Then there are a few (and only a very few) that I ignore.
Come back and read the board after a good win, and the forum seems like a completely different place.
Don't lose faith - in this forum, or the club.
Cheerio
 

timtamWB

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Yeah it's definitely a double edged sword but a fair few members of our team now debuted pre 2011. I do feel like some players; Grant, Howard, Markovic and Wallis among others have gone backwards in the last season and a half.
I'd agree with this too. You would think Grant and Howard would struggle with BMac especially, and so while i'm not happy about it in the slightest, I can understand at least WHY it happened. Wallis is a very strange case though, Wally looked like he was going to become at the very least a very good player in our side, and goes from lock in the 22 to struggling to get into it. I get trying to teach him a new position, but if it's not working, then why persist?

And Marko I just never rated even when he came 10th in the B&F. Like the guy and wanted him to do well and stood up for him, but didn't really rate him as such.
 
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And you think they are learning!?

You think there has been progression since MACCA started?

You think Cooney is a hbf? Murphy not 100% more useful up forward? Disgusting picken gets dropped?

I never professed to tell anyone what they do or don't know but if you think that we are improving then we greatly disagree. I don't hold the team of kids theory that's simply and excuse that he is using to defer from his complete lack of in game tactics and lack of plan b.

But please answer me this? How is it possibly that Boyd, Murphy, Griffen, Cooney and co can't hit a target 20 mts away? Is that the kids fault or lack of coaching


So BMac's coaching has caused Boyd, Murphy, Griffen, Cooney to kick poorly, give me a break :rolleyes:
 

TheHoneyBadger

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Tonight is a blip on the radar. If it has any influence whatsoever on McCartney's tenure our club is a joke.
Our players were simply disinterested tonight. Didn't chase, didn't lead, nothing. Pathetic.
We will be fine. Liberatore is a king, Griffen is a champion, Minson is hands-down the best ruckman in the league, and everyone else can have a long hard think about how lucky they are to pull on the red white and blue hoops. I would give anything to be out playing for the Bulldogs - the players need to bleed for the jumper like the supporters do.
Credit to those who tried and tried but were simply outplayed, however. Shit happens.
 

timtamWB

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Well that's a given because under Eade we had very little youth development but he didn't do alot in Sydney either so that is not his strength. No doubt that the lack of planning then is hurting us now BUT McCrae is probably only playing do to the lack of development on those who came before him.

Stringer was always going to play being a forward of which we have very little
It seems to all go back to the lack of youth development under Eade. Of course not his strong suit and I love the guy for where he took us, but hate him for where he's left us. McCrae is not only playing due to the lack of development of those before him, he's playing because he deserves to be playing. In a perfect world Tutt, Vez, Howard etc. would all be in the best 22 and keeping McCrae out, but unfortunately that hasn't happened.

Stringer was always planned to move into the midfield later though, so it's hard to judge him. He has come in and played forward and done it well most weeks though.
 

Nath09

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Sorry, I was actually highlighting the extreme overly emotional tones in your comment when observing that others were making extreme overly emotional comments. Not meaning to be a smarta**e, just an observation :).

Over time, I have seen some longtime posters depart, but some (and I emphasise some, not all) seemed to think they had a greater right to comment than others based on longevity, or because they had some info from inside the club their contributions were somehow more valuable. There has always been lots of emotion on here, lots of "shoot first, ask questions later". I'm sure I've done it myself if I look back hard enough. A loss, especially one that is unexpected as tonights was, brings out the most extreme hyperbole and emotion in a negative why. And I think regardless of who the current posters on the board are at anytime, this will not change.
I don't think there are any more or less dickheads than usual, either, just the type of comments are more extreme when we get match results like tonight.
There are still lots of good posters on here, some I agree with, and some I don't, but I enjoy reading their posts just the same. Then there are a few (and only a very few) that I ignore.
Come back and read the board after a good win, and the forum seems like a completely different place.
Don't lose heart - in this forum, or the club.
Cheerio
I understand what you're getting at, I just didn't feel my comment to be emotional, just the way I view the forum (perhaps my use of the word 'all' was a mistake). I'm seeing more quality posters disappear and openly cite their dissatisfaction and more and more cynical mean-spirited posters signing up and taking often baseless and uninformed pot-shots at the club. From my perspective, this place used to be a great source of inside information and a place to engage in high-level conversation about the direction of the club. Now, a lot of the posts on here make me cringe and I'm often left with feelings of bewilderment.

You may be right, I signed up in 2009 when we were in a much better place and maybe things were just a bit cheerier back then. Will never lose faith in the club, ever :), this forum however, I'm not so sure...
 

Dogs Rule

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All this "look at the direction the club is taking" crap means nothing. The only direction I see that we're taking is backwards at a rate of knots.

Absolutely no guarantees we'll start heading upward any time in the next three to five years either.
 

Anja_Nees

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Well that's a given because under Eade we had very little youth development but he didn't do alot in Sydney either so that is not his strength. No doubt that the lack of planning then is hurting us now BUT McCrae is probably only playing do to the lack of development on those who came before him.

Stringer was always going to play being a forward of which we have very little
I don't agree. I think drafting under Eade was an issue (and wasn't his doing - the blame walls squarely at the feet of Clayto), not development. Griffen, Cooney, Boyd and Lake all became stars under Eade. Gilbee and Hargrave were on the outer in Rohde's last season and both became seriously very good players. Only Libba has taken a serious step forward under McCartney, despite development apparently being his strength. I don't think there was any problem with the way Eade developed players. You can't polish a turd.

That's not to say Eade was flawless or that McCartney should be sacked. The reality though is that there is a lot of revisionism about Eade's reign. He didn't win us a flag, but he was strong tactically, developed players and was great for us marketing wise. There is no evidence McCartney is better in any one of these categories. I can understand the board deciding to go with someone other than Eade but to be honest I suspect it was mostly because he was perceived to be stale and was going to be hard to sell to the members if we had a few crap seasons.
 

Mattdougie

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So BMac's coaching has caused Boyd, Murphy, Griffen, Cooney to kick poorly, give me a break :rolleyes:

Yeah it is coz it's clear that we don't work on skills enough.

I understand younger players missing targets but experienced players like Griffen and murph? Boydy has never been a great kick but he went at 26% tonite and has been bad all year.

So yeah I do blame the coaches
 
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