Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[cammo78]

Cat 2 for mine.

 

[Oor Wally]

I think he would benefit greatly from a clear number 2 coach as ll similiar to mark thompson, problems are 1 who such as paul roos, mark williams, or other established coach would join and 2 we need that tactician to share same football philosophies as macca. But i think its probably required if we have a poor rest of season.

ian


Perfectly explained and you spell tactician a lot better than me

 

[Reptilia]

I think it's safe to say we fall into four categories:
1. He's will be a great coach
2. I'm not sure, I rate him but wait and see
3. I'm prepared to give him time but I don't think he has it
4. Sack him now.

I'm in group three. I don't really reckon he has what it takes, but I'm willing to wait and see and hope to be proven wrong.

Good idea by threenewpadlocks
So lets do it.. I'm personally in catergory 2.
I think it is way too early to tell.
This way we can gauge where everyone is at.
BTW: Not sure if want to merge this with original thread.

 

[Igloo]

Good idea by threenewpadlocks
So lets do it.. I'm personally in catergory 2.
I think it is way too early to tell.
This way we can gauge where everyone is at.
BTW: Not sure if want to merge this with original thread.

Best to just keep it all in one thread. People can say which they prefer.

 

[Sharkey66]

Category 2
I can see what he is trying to do and where he wants to go, not sure if he has the players yet to do it the way he wants to do it or if he is just not up to it.
Just get the feeling he found that the job was a lot bigger than he thought it was after 6 or 7 rounds last year and went into full rebuild mode then.
Prepared to write off most of the second half of last year as wins weren't the primary objective last season for a variety of reasons,
ie; looking at the list, teaching and lastly the elephant in the room, Draft picks.
So this year and next are the ones that matter.

 

[DogDays]

Nice. Lets all nominate a category and be done with it. Category 3 for me as well.

No 1

 

[Proffessor]

It is interesting that most people seem to be going for the 'need more time to judge' options.

I wonder how much worse the results would have to be for those people to make an earlier call?

Most importantly, I haven't seen anyone indicate that they think he is a great coach. This is a critical issue, because as one of the poor clubs of the AFL, one that doesn't have the same cash and media profile as the rich clubs (and as a result typically gets a tough draw too). We need a great coach if we are going to win a premiership. (Sorry DogDays wrote this before I saw your post)

Now that it is apparent that McCartney isn't one, it is time to try to find a new great hope.

Before people start harrasing me to nominate someone like they have with Ernie. I actually think that the responsibility for making that decision needs to fall back on the club, but there are certainly a range of options out there. We could try to entice an experienced coach such as Paul Roos, Mark Williams, Leigh Matthews, or perhaps even Neal Daniher. We could also try an untried assistant/vfl/sanfl/wafl coach again if he interviews and checks out well. However, on this front I think we would need to make sure that we review our previous selection processes to see where we could improve upon the last time.

In the mean time we could throw someone in as caretaker and see if they have what it takes, e.g Peter German. It might even be a chance to give a taste to a recent past club great to see if they have the passion and skills to coach e.g. Chris Grant, Brad Johnson or Steve Kretiuk.

Considering the recent results of McCartney, there is minimal risk in changing coaches now. It is difficult to imagine anyone doing much worse, but easy to imagine someone doing better. Importantly, it would also give the club renewed hope and help with membership sales next year. McCartney isn't the one we all hoped he would be, c'est la vie, let's keep searching.

 

[wian]

in all honestly we arent far off the pace. we have had a few shockers this year, but on the whole, we are quote competitive, we just lack that polish being a young side. and getting all those injuries in round 2 didnt help either.. we are at least competitive when you say compare us to Melbourne. We have a lot more to work with. you can see the effort is there, just young, fatigued at the end of quarters, and lack polish.

add 2-3 more good quality draft picks at the end of the year, and turn over the last of the s**t and we are on the right track

macca needs more time.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Yes, let's sack a coach every year until we find one that'll win matches with the s**t of a list we have.

While we're at it I also suggest we dispose of the white in our guerneys, darken the blue, trade out all of our great older players and then potentially rebrand ourselves the Melbourne Bulldogs. That ought to work.

 

[VitalDread]

As the hybrid of myself and macca
i'm against him being sacked.

 

[gimp!]

McCartney isn't the one we all hoped he would be, c'est la vie, let's keep searching.

Tell you what, cracking idea... yourself and ernie meet up and get onto this. Get back to us with the results. Can't wait.

 

[Proffessor]

Did McCartney give more time to Justin Sherman (contracted till 2013), or the range of other players he delisted last year?

No, right or wrong he made a judgement call.

It is a tough business.

 

[Interloper]

It is interesting that most people seem to be going for the 'need more time to judge' options.

I wonder how much worse the results would have to be for those people to make an earlier call?

Most importantly, I haven't seen anyone indicate that they think he is a great coach. This is a critical issue, because as one of the poor clubs of the AFL, one that doesn't have the same cash and media profile as the rich clubs (and as a result typically gets a tough draw too). We need a great coach if we are going to win a premiership. (Sorry DogDays wrote this before I saw your post)

Now that it is apparent that McCartney isn't one, it is time to try to find a new great hope.

Before people start harrasing me to nominate someone like they have with Ernie. I actually think that the responsibility for making that decision needs to fall back on the club, but there are certainly a range of options out there. We could try to entice an experienced coach such as Paul Roos, Mark Williams, Leigh Matthews, or perhaps even Neal Daniher. We could also try an untried assistant/vfl/sanfl/wafl coach again if he interviews and checks out well. However, on this front I think we would need to make sure that we review our previous selection processes to see where we could improve upon the last time.

In the mean time we could throw someone in as caretaker and see if they have what it takes, e.g Peter German. It might even be a chance to give a taste to a recent past club great to see if they have the passion and skills to coach e.g. Chris Grant, Brad Johnson or Steve Kretiuk.

Considering the recent results of McCartney, there is minimal risk in changing coaches now. It is difficult to imagine anyone doing much worse, but easy to imagine someone doing better. Importantly, it would also give the club renewed hope and help with membership sales next year. McCartney isn't the one we all hoped he would be, c'est la vie, let's keep searching.

That no one on this board has indicated that they think McCartney is a great coach is a critical issue?
IIRC correctly James Hird, Matthew Scarlett and Tom Harley have indicated that they think he is a great (IIRC) coach.

I disagree with your assertion that it is apparent he isn't a great coach. Given the imbalance of our list I think it's apparent that it's too early to judge whether he will or won't be a great coach for us.

 

[timtamWB]

Where did I say an experienced coach?

Alright then. What coach do you suggest we hire? Please give me some names.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

ErnieSigley99 for prezident!

 

[DogDays]

That no one on this board has indicated that they think McCartney is a great coach is a critical issue?

I said I felt he was a great coach. I am prepared to stand up and say it.

 

[Wocka]

This thread should be renamed "Ernie vs The Goldfish"

Most of you are goldfish - swim, swim, swim, oh look a castle, swim swim swim, ok look a castle.

 

[Interloper]

I said I felt he was a great coach. I am prepared to stand up and say it.

I see that. My point is that we as posters are not that well placed to judge at the moment because we don't know the specifics of the day in day out progression of the squad. There are holes in the list (we are rebuilding) and there are injuries so win/loss results are not great currently. We know, however, that many great players associated with McCartney over a period of time rate him as a great coach, and in some cases, the best coach they've had. So it's hard overlook to the recommendation of great players with first hand experience. I don't think we can accurately say he is or he isn't in respect of us at the present moment but we tend to believe one way or the other.
I predict, however, that he will prove to be a great coach given he is allowed to finish what he started. Great in terms of building a durable and talented list and a game style over his first 3 years that will stand up in finals to be played beyond his initial term of 3 years. And even if his tenure were to end at 3 years, that which he has done will be to the benefit of any coach that comes after him and ultimately the club. In other words, I think he'll leave the club a much better place than he found it and it will be a durable legacy. If he is allowed to continue beyond his 3 years I think he'll win us a flag sometime from 2016-2018. And if that happens then he will have been a great development coach and a Premiership coach and that would bestow greatness upon him within this club anyway.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

On a more serious note, we probably shouldn't be rude to people.

Ernie I guess the more frustrating thing is hearing your negative opinion on top of the disappointment to loss. Myself included, it is thought provoking to consider whether we are in complete shambles.

I believe we are not, but can you at least see that your opinion is particularly very far to the negative side compared to the rest (not saying anyone is right or wrong)

 

[Master Coach]

The occupation of coaching is a daunting task as there is so many separate requirements being made on the coach. Today, the cv of a football coach no longer includes just ‘teaching people football’ but a host of other qualities and responsibilities. Find below some example key required qualities:

The below key personal qualities of an individual forms the basis for their potential coaching ability eg; their persona will decide whether players will relate to them or not.
1. A Good Communicator. 2. Open-minded eg; willing to alter their approach, and at times their own beliefs to incorporate necessary changes/advances in the game.
3. Fairness and Equality eg; the approach and attitudes adopted by the coach must be seen as fair and equal towards all participants.
4. Being Patient eg; the coach must understand that with a diverse group of players/learners each will have their own development speed and need for explanation and demonstration.
5. Approachable eg; although it is appropriate for a coach to maintain a degree of separation from the players it is also imperative that the players feel that the coach is willing to listen and offer a warm, helping reception.
6. Psychological awareness of how to best develop and motivate a player and group.
7. Player career development.
8. Role Model
9. Motivator

Some required key technical qualities.

1. Game play tactician and strategist.
2. Game day player management/positional changes.
3. Organizational and team management skills.
4. Professional level Game Experience and Knowledge (versus just theory).
5. Disciplinarian Manager.
6. Advanced Training skills and methods.
7. Cutting edge physical fitness and football skill/technique knowledge.
8. Training sessional planning.
9. Player skill development eg; includes both mental development and required positional skills.
The above short list is by no means exhaustive. Using the above criteria -our present senior coach obviously scores high in the required personal skills eg; as an Educator. But, given his limited game day tactical experience I suggest that he does not rate well on Game Day play tactics and strategy. The typical solution by football clubs here has been to hire a specialist, experienced game day management coach/tactician to assist the Head Coach eg; as is in place with Collingwood.

 

[Mr. Walker]

in all honestly we arent far off the pace. we have had a few shockers this year, but on the whole, we are quote competitive, we just lack that polish being a young side. and getting all those injuries in round 2 didnt help either.. we are at least competitive when you say compare us to Melbourne. We have a lot more to work with. you can see the effort is there, just young, fatigued at the end of quarters, and lack polish.

add 2-3 more good quality draft picks at the end of the year, and turn over the last of the s**t and we are on the right track

macca needs more time.

I fully agree with this. I have been able to make it to a few more games this year and while the frustration of watching a team with awful skills and laughable decision making has been huge it is countered a little by seeing genuine improvement in the players ability to win the contest and create opportunities (admittedly to be squandered by a stupid skill error). I was surprised how close we were to Geelong for most of the game and the same against North. I like what Macca is doing and he deserves more time. Our problems stem from poor drafting well before he got to the club.

 

[Libba39]

I fully agree with this. I have been able to make it to a few more games this year and while the frustration of watching a team with awful skills and laughable decision making has been huge it is countered a little by seeing genuine improvement in the players ability to win the contest and create opportunities (admittedly to be squandered by a stupid skill error). I was surprised how close we were to Geelong for most of the game and the same against North. I like what Macca is doing and he deserves more time. Our problems stem from poor drafting well before he got to the club.

I disagree with us being not far off the pace. When people were lauding our efforts against Freo in round two I thought we were just as bad as any of our other losses but the opposition just weren't able to put us away. Geelong toyed with us and then put the foot on the throat at the end after kicking badly for most of the game, although this probably was the best of our losing efforts.

You mention seeing genuine improvement in the players abilities to win the contests but is this enough? Why can't the improvement be two-fold - tactical AND physical. Otherwise we may as well just go and recruit Ben Jolley from Willy Town because he is one of the hardest nuts I've ever seen at the ball. How frustrating must it be for the playing group to go hard all game winning the contested ball for little or no reward as we don't have a shred of tactics to back it up? I hate to sound like a broken record but:

Our kick-outs are probably among the worst in the league
We still have no ability to spread from the contest
We scrap goals and rarely hit a forward on a straightforward lead (a staple if you want to win games)
Our skill level is way down compared to most clubs

Yes Minson has improved and is having a great year. Yes Jones is clunking a few marks. Yes we seem to have drafted well. But apart from that I am struggling to take much away from our efforts.

This is not a call to scrap the coach. I've always said that 3/4 of the way through this year was the time to start seeing tactical/gameplan improvement, but I was hoping to see glimpses of it by now and for me this hasn't happened.

 

[theAthenian]

Category 4 _sack him now - dont only sack him but make him an example for all to see that anyone who ever got a couple of kicks playing country footy and done some coaching at the semiprofessional level has no right to blight the destiny of an AFL club. Stick his head on pike outside the western oval. BMaC and Rhode - their audacity to pretend is insulting , infuriating, and atm dangerous to our future. Also ask those who were responsible for this desicion who are still connected to the club to explain why they hired him at the next GM and ask for resignations.

I want to ask those who ask us to believe in their false prophet one simple question, and i dont wanna here anymore bullshit about lists, about recruits, about years in the system because and the end of the day if u wanna wear the jumper and show off to friends that your an afl footballer - u better perform no excuses. Every game starts 22v22. Guess what every fricken team has young old and somewhere in the middle players in age we are no anomaly.

QUESTON
Would Freo have beaten Collingwood last week if BMac was in charge ?

MY ANSWER
Not in a zillion tries, because to win the way they did needs a game plan and a coach to react immediately to the ebb and flow of the game. NOT 22 all australians as some believe with 150 games plus on their side - who have been practising together for at least 5 years - thats an excuse the "excuse makers" like to bandy about.

optional question
would Bmac have come to the bench at qtr time and verbaly abused 3-4 players and assistant coaches alla mickeymalthouse yesterday pointing fingers and breathing fire?
optional answer
No way he's a scholar-teacher-father figure coach - no way would he subject his boys to that,we would of lost by 100+ but carlton almost came back from the dead. THATS A F@%KEN real coach.


BMAC is already on death row - if u cant see that ur simply in denial

What would i do if i was PGordon - easy call Rodney Eade and ask for his forgiveness - promise him everything and insist he cracks a few heads along the way. Remind him that the bean counter presidentee is gone and that if the seniors done like it they can bugger off and play bush footy with fev and aker.

 

[Curly5]

I'm a 1.5 - not yet, but will be.

 

[StringyDog]

I want to ask those who ask us to believe in their false prophet one simple question, and i dont wanna here anymore bullshit about lists, about recruits, about years in the system because and the end of the day if u wanna wear the jumper and show off to friends that your an afl footballer - u better perform no excuses. Every game starts 22v22. Guess what every fricken team has young old and somewhere in the middle players in age we are no anomaly.

So I take it you think Sheedy should be removed right now as well as McKenna and when GWS are struggling again next year when Cameron takes over he should also be removed as there are no excuses and age is no excuse, it will be 22 on 22....