The Woe is me Supporters

[sr36]

Whatever, you're right as usual

Thanks.

 

[Apples]

So brave. So heroic. Why is there such a virtue signaling push on this forum? It's cringeworthy. Floreat Pica indeed. What I find tedious is the endless defense of anything the club does. If someone is personally denigrating players or using foul abusive language than I too would condemn them. The vast majority of those you label "whingers" are clearly stating what they think we are lacking or pointing out our failure to have any sort of sustained success-something a club touting itself as one of the powerhouses as our president does with great regularity, should have been able to achieve. We have a state of the art centre and training facilities, a huge supporter base and enormous media coverage. Why is it considered blasphemous to ask why we keep falling short?

What exactly is the difference between what you believe constitutes having an opinion or "challenging"
the club as opposed to whinging?

I have written criticisms backed up with arguments and facts to support them. That doesn't make me right but it is me presenting what I believe to be a valid opinion. Yet I have been branded sook, a whinger and told to go and barrack for another team (such a mature response).

This forum would be utterly unreadable it it was filled with nothing but sycophantic cheerleading and hero worship from all who post here. A forum for opinions should hopefully have a diverse range of them or it is a waste of time.

You're certainly consistent Domus. Nice post. I particularly like the virtue signalling, but you forgot to include 'woke' in your piece. You're slipping.

 

[manicpie]

Thanks.

No worries

 

[johncitizen]

Let's all be friends hey? I think Ed has been in charge for to long too. Believe me, he has our interests at heart. He will be doing everything within his power to make us great again.

I think we have targeted forwards in the past without luck.
We need to plonk Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

up forward.. Tom McDonald

25

Tom Mcdonald

Age

31

Ht

195cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

261.8

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.6

1star

MG

135.6

2star

D

13.8

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

or some other defender we draft down back.
Nathan Buckley likely knows we have to tweak our horrible game plan. In his defense many of our players had a down year..

Onwards and upwards Pies fans

 

[domus]

You're certainly consistent Domus. Nice post. I particularly like the virtue signalling, but you forgot to include 'woke' in your piece. You're slipping.

Thanks. I thought it was an excellent post too. There is never a need for overkill. Virtue signaling said all I needed to say on the matter.

 

[domus]

I'm not a fan of our coaching and I think our role players either lack pace or in WHEs case are not competitive at ground level. I don't think all parts of our club are as catastrophically bad as you seem to - and our recent ladder positions agree with me. I think we should be aiming to improve rather than looking to destroy and start again, which seems to be the vibe that you're running with.

I also think that you're going way too early on Port - maybe they're sorted for a good run, but a team having one good, yet unsuccessful year isn't anything to get excited about ( a lesson you should have learnt from 2018) - In Port's case it is particularly not something to get over-excited about as it was a year that was so unusual.

Supporters like you seem to expect us to always be as good Richmond are at the moment, or Hawthorn were, or Geelong, or Brisbane. They were great teams which don't come along very often in a club's history. It's a ridiculous expectation to think we've totally failed and completely stuffed up all matters within the club just becasue we aren't great. I just think you come from a position of entitlement, where he you think not always getting everythin that you want is a catastrophe. Hopefully we have a run like those great teams at some stage, but you and I or our club aren't entitled to it. It will require a fair bit of luck, hard work, as well as good management. It's an even comp with structures in place to keep it as even as possible.

Why is it a position of entitlement to ask why your club has not managed to have a period of sustained success in over six decades? Who said we were entitled to be a dominant club? As a die hard supporter it is my fervent wish that my club is the most successful club in the AFL. What a horrifying, shameful declaration from a supporter! Colour me ashamed.

You say it is incredibly difficult to have sustained success in this even competition with structures in place to keep it as even as possible and in the same paragraph you rattle off four teams who have done just that in the past two decades! Were their fan bases too demanding and entitled? Nobody has mentioned the word catastrophe. Many have expressed frustration over our inability to win premierships when we have had so many more opportunities than any other club. We are also asking why we fail to keep our premiership window open for years as other clubs have managed to do.

If Richmond had played in 44 grand finals and won 15 of them, I would view that as a problem. Why am I not allowed to feel the same way when it happens to be my club which holds this dubious record?

 

[sr36]

Why is it a position of entitlement to ask why your club has not managed to have a period of sustained success in over six decades? Who said we were entitled to be a dominant club? As a die hard supporter it is my fervent wish that my club is the most successful club in the AFL. What a horrifying, shameful declaration from a supporter! Colour me ashamed.

You say it is incredibly difficult to have sustained success in this even competition with structures in place to keep it as even as possible and in the same paragraph you rattle off four teams who have done just that in the past two decades! Were their fan bases too demanding and entitled? Nobody has mentioned the word catastrophe. Many have expressed frustration over our inability to win premierships when we have had so many more opportunities than any other club. We are also asking why we fail to keep our premiership window open for years as other clubs have managed to do.

If Richmond had played in 44 grand finals and won 15 of them, I would view that as a problem. Why am I not allowed to feel the same way when it happens to be my club which holds this dubious record?

It's not a sign of entitlement to ask questions. It's not a sign of entitlement to wish for success. It's not a sign of entitlement to be critical of aspects of the club. But in my mind, it's a sign of entitlement when someone throws a hissy fit and wants to tear the whole place down, including supporters who aren't cracking the shits massively, just because we are currently off the pace of the top teams in the comp. I'm not saying you were doing that, but I believe the poster I responded to was.

In terms of grand final defeats from 35-100 years ago - move on, nobody working in the current club had anything to do with those defeats. I doubt they have any impact on current decisions or direction from the club, or will have any impact on future successes or failures. They may indicate some flaws from the past, but they are now irrelevant to the flaws of the present. Additonally, many of those losses weren't choking or a sign of weakness on grand final day. Many of them were because we were a heart and soul club who gave it everything and overachieved to get into the granny, but were ultimately not good enough.

 

[domus]

It's not a sign of entitlement to ask questions. It's not a sign of entitlement to wish for success. It's not a sign of entitlement to be critical of aspects of the club. But in my mind, it's a sign of entitlement when someone throws a hissy fit and wants to tear the whole place down, including supporters who aren't cracking the shits massively, just because we are currently off the pace of the top teams in the comp. I'm not saying you were doing that, but I believe the poster I responded to was.

In terms of grand final defeats from 35-100 years ago - move on, nobody working in the current club had anything to do with those defeats. I doubt they have any impact on current decisions or direction from the club, or will have any impact on future successes or failures. They may indicate some flaws from the past, but they are now irrelevant to the flaws of the present. Additonally, many of those losses weren't choking or a sign of weakness on grand final day. Many of them were because we were a heart and soul club who gave it everything and overachieved to get into the granny, but were ultimately not good enough.

We've lost four out of five GF's in the past twenty years.

 

[AndrewShawble]

It's not a sign of entitlement to ask questions. It's not a sign of entitlement to wish for success.

No, we aren’t entitled to success, but we do deserve a well run club without politics.

Winning and losing is sport, it comes and goes and it’s all part of the ride.

Mismanagement, a stacked board and a host of other problems shouldn’t be tolerated.

 

[sr36]

We've lost four out of five GF's in the past twenty years.

Yes, but where we differ is that I'd prefer us to have lost 5. Would have liked us to win the Prelim last year - tiges would have spanked us. The reality is that we've been an extremely competitive team, but haven't been the best. It doesn't make us a joke or shambles or a club who has been appalling run (the current Treloar stuff might). 2002 and 2018 the club gave us an incredible ride from the bottom half of the ladder to wihtin a whisker of the flag. 2003 - they were just too good for us. 2011 was disappointing, but they had our measure. We've just got to get back on the horse and look for the incremental improvements that will take us from close to the top of the pile.

 

[domus]

Yes, but where we differ is that I'd prefer us to have lost 5. Would have liked us to win the Prelim last year - tiges would have spanked us. The reality is that we've been an extremely competitive team, but haven't been the best. It doesn't make us a joke or shambles or a club who has been appalling run (the current Treloar stuff might). 2002 and 2018 the club gave us an incredible ride from the bottom half of the ladder to wihtin a whisker of the flag. 2003 - they were just too good for us. 2011 was disappointing, but they had our measure. We've just got to get back on the horse and look for the incremental improvements that will take us from close to the top of the pile.

I agree. It all adds up to not good enough. Why should that thrill the supporter base? One or two seasons of punching above your weight (if that is even truly possible) may be stirring, but to continually come up short because you are a mediocre side playing above yourself begs the question" Why have we had so many average sides who have to work their bums off to be competitive with the class sides and why has it been a recurring theme for decades?

 

[sr36]

I agree. It all adds up to not good enough. Why should that thrill the supporter base? One or two seasons of punching above your weight (if that is even truly possible) may be stirring, but to continually come up short because you are a mediocre side playing above yourself begs the question" Why have we had so many average sides who have to work their bums off to be competitive with the class sides and why has it been a recurring theme for decades?

It's been different Collingwood sides that weren't quite up to it against different teams that were too good. My money is on it just being a coincidence.

 

[domus]

It's been different Collingwood sides that weren't quite up to it against different teams that were too good. My money is on it just being a coincidence.

Endless decades of coincidence? I suppose if we write it all off as coincidence or fate we don't have to own the failures and seek to address what has been an ongoing issue for as long as I've been alive.
Clearly the numerous teams who have had our measure in countless grand finals recruited players who know how to win on the big stage. We still seem to fall short in this department. In 62 years of football Collingwood have only had a side that was packed with class on two occasions. 1970 and 2010. Even with a team of champions we failed in 1970.
In every other grand final we have been a team of hard working, role playing goers. Why has this been the case over such a long period of time?

 

[sr36]

Endless decades of coincidence? I suppose if we write it all off as coincidence or fate we don't have to own the failures and seek to address what has been an ongoing issue for as long as I've been alive.
Clearly the numerous teams who have had our measure in countless grand finals recruited players who know how to win on the big stage. We still seem to fall short in this department. In 62 years of football Collingwood have only had a side that was packed with class on two occasions. 1970 and 2010. Even with a team of champions we failed in 1970.
In every other grand final we have been a team of hard working, role playing goers. Why has this been the case over such a long period of time?

I'd suggest its been different issues each time. We lost the 1977 Grand Final for a very different reason than we lost the 2003 Grand Final.

But perhaps there's something in your last sentence. Perhaps historically, as a working class club, we've valued grit over polish and thus that's the type of team we've got. I don't think that's the modern reason though. I just think that we haven't been able to put a team together that has been good enough for extended success - only 4 teams have during the last 20 years - or perhaps we foolishly stuck to the succession plan when we did have such a team.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'd suggest its been different issues each time. We lost the 1977 Grand Final for a very different reason than we lost the 2003 Grand Final.

But perhaps there's something in your last sentence. Perhaps historically, as a working class club, we've valued grit over polish and thus that's the type of team we've got. I don't think that's the modern reason though. I just think that we haven't been able to put a team together that has been good enough for extended success - only 4 teams have during the last 20 years - or perhaps we foolishly stuck to the succession plan when we did have such a team.

And that last sentence is only a minuscule example for the cause of lament among the fan base. It's the constant almost that drives the frustration and yet there seems to be a minority of supporters, op included that it comes down to 'oh well, it is what it is'. Let's move on.'

But it's the things in the clubs control that the club consistently get wrong and it costs that is the grind. So the 'woe is me' is a bit of a stretch, we're not emotionless robots that just suck it up and move on and have every right to be p155ed off. Yes we are Collingwood supporters and are by far the most resilient of any but like I said doesn't mean we should just happily accept the failings.

 

[TKiL]

I'd suggest its been different issues each time. We lost the 1977 Grand Final for a very different reason than we lost the 2003 Grand Final.
But perhaps there's something in your last sentence. Perhaps historically, as a working class club, we've valued grit over polish and thus that's the type of team we've got. I don't think that's the modern reason though. I just think that we haven't been able to put a team together that has been good enough for extended success - only 4 teams have during the last 20 years - or perhaps we foolishly stuck to the succession plan when we did have such a team.

We lost both the 1970 and the 1977 GFs to teams coached by Barassi

At 3/4 time in 1977 (1st GF) did Barassi think... "I can crack this mob in a GF again"? - by forcing a draw from 27 pts behind he did crack us

Losing 1970 in the way we did haunted the Club for ages - maybe still does

 

[jonmacTrag]

We lost both the 1970 and the 1977 GFs to teams coached by Barassi

At 3/4 time in 1977 (1st GF) did Barassi think... "I can crack this mob in a GF again"? - by forcing a draw from 27 pts behind he did crack us

Losing 1970 in the way we did haunted the Club for ages - maybe still does

We lost the 70 GF because Tuddy took out Macca who was tearing tearing the scum several new a-holes.
We lost the 77 GF replay because Tommy trained us into the ground leading up to the game.
Neither case was attributable to that most overrated of coaches loudmouth Barassi.

 

[Cyclops]

We lost the 70 GF because Tuddy took out Macca who was tearing tearing the scum several new a-holes.
We lost the 77 GF replay because Tommy trained us into the ground leading up to the game.
Neither case was attributable to that most overrated of coaches loudmouth Barassi.

Thats not right he was good enough to keep them at it even though we destroyed them in the 1sr q in 1970. Barrassi pulled the big moves in both those GFs. Certainly played with very good lists, Hafey's tougher is less skilled Tiger sides owned him.