The Woe is me Supporters

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manicpie said:
Fmd, let's just keep doing what we have been doing, who should we target then?
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players who want to come to collingwood. players like Jack Crisp who had limited opportunities... darcy camerson is another example. players who went interstate and might be happier living in melb. senior players in vfl, wafl and sanfl who missed the draft and have continued to develop their footy like mihocek and noble. not players who are psycho. not players who have a history of soft tissue injuries, foot problems, knee issues etc in their junior footy.
 
Markfs said:
players who want to come to collingwood. players like Jack Crisp who had limited opportunities... darcy camerson is another example. players who went interstate and might be happier living in melb. senior players in vfl, wafl and sanfl who missed the draft and have continued to develop their footy like mihocek and noble. not players who are psycho. not players who have a history of soft tissue injuries, foot problems, knee issues etc in their junior footy.
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Agreed, mostly. We should red flag those cases and consider the risk very closely.

We recruited Pert after his knee reconstruction, similalry Licuria. Both players gave us good service. So we do risk missing out on gems.
 

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AndrewShawble said:
There’s no vendetta Jon, it’s highly frustrating to be finishing 6th and the clubs that are currently performing better are still able to make list changes to improve the list.

Since the 2018 Grand Final, apart from progression of players like Daicos, IQ etc the list has essentially stood still. It’s hard to cop why we’ve been overpaying for what we have.
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I think there's always a balance between supporting the players on the list and getting in new players. But like the footy itself, you have to have the right overall system. I agree that we have put too much faith in players like Shaz, who is a prime example. Did everything right. We had so much hope invested in him, but at some stage everyone needed to realise that it wasnt going to happen. Was he on the list a year too long, two years? Better judges than me might know. I know his team-mates would have liked to give him the max opportunity. Tim broomhead is another example.

but what about Josh Daicos? most people would have said that he just wasnt up to scratch. I didnt see him progressing like he has this year.

So where's the balance? Turn over players big time and be left with a playing list that is looking elsewhere for a little security, or hanging on to players well past their useby date.

I must admit that i was a little shocked by decisions like the one on lyden dunn... and his output this year indicated that he should have remained in coaching.

i'm also puzzled why we dont give indigenous players a go..and the news about Neville Jetta has stunned me. I am watching this one as an indication of what is happening in the footy dept.
 
jathanas said:
Agreed, mostly. We should red flag those cases and consider the risk very closely.

We recruited Pert after his knee reconstruction, similalry Licuria. Both players gave us good service. So we do risk missing out on gems.
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i still had black hair when pert played....... how do you feel about recruiting alan edwards?
 
Doc1763 said:
Selective editing of someone elses post to suit our own agenda, how predictable.
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You're so close to connecting the dots and realising something important.

You'll get there mate.

In the mean time, keep parroting away about something you know nothing about.
 
Scribe26 said:
You're so close to connecting the dots and realising something important.

You'll get there mate.

In the mean time, keep parroting away about something you know nothing about.
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Well, in the meantime, you could regale us with your vast knowledge of how to run a professional football club.

Then again, as we have the best people in football in all of our critical positions, there is no need for you to do that. We are the blueprint for all other clubs.
 
Markfs said:
i still had black hair when pert played....... how do you feel about recruiting alan edwards?
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Can't remember much of him at all. I was 11 when he played in the 1979 GF, and my memory of that game is not all pleasant.

I do recall that he was a better kick of the footy than his nephew. :)
 
jathanas said:
Can't remember much of him at all. I was 11 when he played in the 1979 GF, and my memory of that game is not all pleasant.

I do recall that he was a better kick of the footy than his nephew. :)
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rumour has it that he used to check in his crutches with the properties steward before the game...
 
Markfs said:
players who want to come to collingwood. players like Jack Crisp who had limited opportunities... darcy camerson is another example. players who went interstate and might be happier living in melb. senior players in vfl, wafl and sanfl who missed the draft and have continued to develop their footy like mihocek and noble. not players who are psycho. not players who have a history of soft tissue injuries, foot problems, knee issues etc in their junior footy.
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So you want a bunch of sub standard, makeshift footballers coming to the club. McCarthy wants to come to the club, lets target him, in case you haven't noticed no one wants to come who is of any value. Darcy Cameron, lol, he's a real star. Crisp can't hit the side of a barn by foot, do I need to go on?, there is a reason they were let go from their interstate clubs. If we did what you suggest we would be on the bottom of the ladder
What league are we going to get our KPF from?
What about a really good small forward?
A polished midfielder?
 
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manicpie said:
So you want a bunch of sub standard, makeshift footballers coming to the club. McCarthy wants to come to the club, lets target him, in case you haven't noticed no one wants to come who is of any value.

...

Crisp can't hit the side of a barn by foot, do I need to go on?, there is a reason they were let go from their interstate clubs. If we did what you suggest we would be on the bottom of the ladder
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That's not a very balanced view of the situation.

The club has missed out on some very good players e.g. Lynch. There are also cases of great players that wanted in that were ruled out by the club e.g. Tony Lockett. (I can't prove that one). We have attracted Treloar and Adams, both quality people and footballers.

Luke Ball and Darren Jolly both chose Collingwood. There are many examples.

You are very harsh on Crisp.
 

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Doc1763 said:
Obviously, I have no clue how to run a professional football club.

I would imagine that there would be plenty of successful businessmen or women who are passionate Collingwood supporters and have the skillset and contacts to perform the role, whithout making racist & mysoginist comments.

Preferably, someone who doesnt think they should have the job for life, like Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-Un, Eddie McGuire etc.
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Really? Who are these individuals? Why aren't we hearing about them? Craig Kelly is on the record as saying he doesn't have the time the role requires, why do we assume others do?
 
AndrewShawble said:
There’s no vendetta Jon, it’s highly frustrating to be finishing 6th and the clubs that are currently performing better are still able to make list changes to improve the list.

Since the 2018 Grand Final, apart from progression of players like Daicos, IQ etc the list has essentially stood still. It’s hard to cop why we’ve been overpaying for what we have.
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Andrew I wasn't pointing the finger at you or indeed most of the disaffected posters but there are some hard core long term haters on this board and have been for at least 20 years now.
As for frustration - I started going to games at Vicky park in 1964, I was at both the 1970 and 79 GF's and also both '77 GF's.
That's 56 years with only 2 premierships to show for it. Most of you here have no idea how frustrating it is to barrack all your life for Collingwood.
I want to see at least another couple of flags before I move along but at '66 the odds are getting longer every season.
So yes I have a long and deeply embedded frustration with the circumstances that have always surrounded Collingwood.
However.
I never tear into them and I especially don't tear into the players who put their bodies and present / future health on the line every week of the season for my/our benefit.
 
jathanas said:
That's not a very balanced view of the situation.

The club has missed out on some very good players e.g. Lynch. There are also cases of great players that wanted in that were ruled out by the club e.g. Tony Lockett. (I can't prove that one). We have attracted Treloar and Adams, both quality people and footballers.

Luke Ball and Darren Jolly both chose Collingwood. There are many examples.

You are very harsh on Crisp.
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Crisp isn't really the point I'm trying to make. In 2010 we were a mighty side compared to where we are now. If we top up with average players who want to come to the club then we have no hope. In case you didn't notice we are miles behind the top sides and we we ain't going to find gems in other leagues that are going to solve our problem. We need to get ruthless at the trade table or we are are going to fall further behind
 
jackcass said:
Really? Who are these individuals? Why aren't we hearing about them? Craig Kelly is on the record as saying he doesn't have the time the role requires, why do we assume others do?
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I dont know who they are, I would have thought with our massive fan base, there would be one or two with the required skillset and contacts. Maybe there arent.

It is irrelevent though. We already have the best performed Presidient in the league. The 22 years have just flown past. Here's to the next 22.
 
sr36 said:
At the moment there's also the glass totally empty posters and the very rare glass totally full posters
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And everything in between, it's a continuum. Always amused that it always seems to be either/or for those who's opinions align with the extremities.
 
manicpie said:
Crisp isn't really the point I'm trying to make. In 2010 we were a mighty side compared to where we are now. If we top up with average players who want to come to the club then we have no hope. In case you didn't notice we are miles behind the top sides and we we ain't going to find gems in other leagues that are going to solve our problem. We need to get ruthless at the trade table or we are are going to fall further behind
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That's a fair perspective. The Beams and Wells deals didn't work out at all. The Beams deal looks more like a blunder than a risk that didn't pay off. I can see that it's hard for many to make peace with it and to question our direction in general.

How do you feel about developing from within and recruiting mature players only to fill specific roles? I ask because that is the approach that I favour.

I rate our list very highly (call me annoyingly optimistic) but am acutely aware that we're not tracking as we should be. I don't believe we're as far off the top sides as our last game of the season suggests.
 
jonmacTrag said:
Andrew I wasn't pointing the finger at you or indeed most of the disaffected posters but there are some hard core long term haters on this board and have been for at least 20 years now.
As for frustration - I started going to games at Vicky park in 1964, I was at both the 1970 and 79 GF's and also both '77 GF's.
That's 56 years with only 2 premierships to show for it. Most of you here have no idea how frustrating it is to barrack all your life for Collingwood.
I want to see at least another couple of flags before I move along but at '66 the odds are getting longer every season.
So yes I have a long and deeply embedded frustration with the circumstances that have always surrounded Collingwood.
However.
I never tear into them and I especially don't tear into the players who put their bodies and present / future health on the line every week of the season for my/our benefit.
Click to expand...

I get your points and hope we can get some more flags for you and others, I reckon we can.

I just feel as though the club is playing it far too safe while other clubs go past us.
- tenures too long in key spots
- signing players on too much $
- not developing the indigenous pathways properly
- not pipelining players from other clubs properly

We all want the same thing, more flags - and I get the point of this thread, too much negativity sometimes is draining.
 
AndrewShawble said:
I get your points and hope we can get some more flags for you and others, I reckon we can.

I just feel as though the club is playing it far too safe while other clubs go past us.
- tenures too long in key spots
- signing players on too much $
- not developing the indigenous pathways properly
- not pipelining players from other clubs properly

We all want the same thing, more flags - and I get the point of this thread, too much negativity sometimes is draining.
Click to expand...
I think we have neglected "the pathway" - by that I mean the system that carries a recruit from a raw arrival through regular 22 play through leadership role through star through veteran.
There seems to be a distinct breakdown in that our age range has often been badly unbalanced.
For me there are worrying signs that past players aren't comitted to the club in any meaningful capacity (in general) which hints at a disconnect within the club at some level.
Stars come and go but if the pathways and conduits of communication aren't clear and meaningful no amount of recruiting will fill the void.
 
Like a cheese... some festering and offensiveness from the supporters can be complimentary to a footy club.

If we stopped being critical, lowered the expectations... we may as well add red to the jumper and merge with St Kilda.

A club that has reunions for their wooden spoons, and a supporter group who can survive off nothing and smile about it like North Koreans.

We should be doing better than 6th.
 
Ok so this is a turn up on the “you’re not a true supporter if you criticise the club” I’m not going into it again but 2 flags since 1958 and supporters accepting mediocrity.
 
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