The worst football in a generation

demondavey

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I wasnt directly having a go at you, I was replying to you but speaking generally, so stop being so sensitive.

The fact coaches have reacted defensively doesn't mean the rule was wrong, it means the current set of rules still allow the coaches too much freedom, or do not provide enough incentive to balance defense and attack.
Ok so do you think less interchange rotations would help?
 

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mxett

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I started watching footy around 1997, so I was 12. Basically back then it was all about goals and getting it to a FF. Paddocks and paddocks of space for a big unit to lead out into. I really got into it right on the Lions triple premiership stage. I got it heaps more then. Lynch was the guy I thought was the best due to him being an absolute monster in size, could lead, mark and kick. Neitz the other one. Just smashed packs apart and gloved it.

Neitz and Lynch had virtually identical careers stats wise if you look them up. Both also turned forwards from defenders. I used to love watching Mal Michael and Rocca, or Leppitsch and Tredrea.

You’d see forwards back then waving campaigners out of the holes and spaces so they could lead into them! No zoning, just open the paddock and let the FF and FB go at it. They were real defenders back then, not these zone off types today. Leppitsch, Michael, Martyn, Wellman, Wallis. Scarlett was a bit of both but man was he unbeatable one on one.

Even Alistair Nicholson was a better one on one defender than Rance FFS.
and this is the type of football that most people I know want to see. It allows talented players, whether forwards or backs, to show their skills. Nowadays we the poor forward has no room to lead and must compete against 3 or 4 defenders. The pass to the forward is under more pressure so isnt as accurate. It's just a mess of mistakes and turnovers, then eventually a score. Man, throw me in as a 4th defender against a single forward and even I'd have a chance
 

Topkent

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I started watching footy around 1997, so I was 12. Basically back then it was all about goals and getting it to a FF. Paddocks and paddocks of space for a big unit to lead out into. I really got into it right on the Lions triple premiership stage. I got it heaps more then. Lynch was the guy I thought was the best due to him being an absolute monster in size, could lead, mark and kick. Neitz the other one. Just smashed packs apart and gloved it.

Neitz and Lynch had virtually identical careers stats wise if you look them up. Both also turned forwards from defenders. I used to love watching Mal Michael and Rocca, or Leppitsch and Tredrea.

You’d see forwards back then waving campaigners out of the holes and spaces so they could lead into them! No zoning, just open the paddock and let the FF and FB go at it. They were real defenders back then, not these zone off types today. Leppitsch, Michael, Martyn, Wellman, Wallis. Scarlett was a bit of both but man was he unbeatable one on one.

Even Alistair Nicholson was a better one on one defender than Rance FFS.
The midfielders also used to kick it to them low and hard and to their advantage. Now a good kick is a bomb that goes higher than lower so that you can punch it down for either crumbers or a stoppage.

100% if they created a breakout league and poached some decent but not superstar players with the aim to play 90s style football I'd stop watching the AFL
 

mxett

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Ok so do you think less interchange rotations would help?
I think it's definitely worth a shot. My only concern is the way the coaches have reacted to minor changes this year. They may recruit endurance runners over natural footballers so they can continue to congest play without the need for many breaks.

Our game is pretty unique in that the positioning of players is virtually unlimited compared to sports like rugby, gridiron and soccer. It has made AFL a great sport but has also made it susceptible to the introduction of tactics that are well regulated in other sports. My concern is without some sort of regulation this debacle is here to stay
 

greatwhiteshark

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that wont change the current congestion or defensive problems though. These tactics arent the result of rule changes, they're the result of tactics the rules cannot stop.

If that's what fans want, fair enough, but most people I know have pretty much had enough
I think congestion can be cleared a little by free kicks being paid when rules are broken, and umpires giving much less time to get the ball out and go in and throw it up more quickly.
The congestion or defensive part I have never worried about. Still someone wins and losers. The rules and the interpretations are my issue with the game.
 

Topkent

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I think it's definitely worth a shot. My only concern is the way the coaches have reacted to minor changes this year. They may recruit endurance runners over natural footballers so they can continue to congest play without the need for many breaks.

Our game is pretty unique in that the positioning of players is virtually unlimited compared to sports like rugby, gridiron and soccer. It has made AFL a great sport but has also made it susceptible to the introduction of tactics that are well regulated on other sports. My concern is without some sort of regulation this debacle is here to stay
There's always a fear. But the less players on a field the more that a superstar talent can impact.
The best AFL players have minimal impact compared to the best basketball players, compared to the best soccer players etc.

Eventually if you take numbers off the field the better players will shine more
 

greatwhiteshark

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Do we think the interchange is having much impact? I mean what if we radically cut back interchange rotations?
My opinion is lowering it won’t do much if anything to change things. These guys fitness is extraordinary and lowering interchanges will just increase other lines of players on the ground like small forwards, half backs etc ncreasing their running pattens to the same as midfielders.
My view is paying free kicks for incorrect disposal, holding the man, head high contact will get the ball cleared from congestion more than less interchanges. This business of letting it all go is what causes the congestion.
 

Gaborone

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If you want to reduce congestion don't give all the advantages to the person with the ball. If they are tackled and are dispossessed or dispose of the ball illegally pay the free kick against them. When coaches know that defensive free kicks will be paid fairly they won't have to resort to ultra defensive tactics.

And for those of you who want to solve the bad rule problem by introducing yet more rules. ... stop it.
 

greatwhiteshark

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If you want to reduce congestion don't give all the advantages to the person with the ball. If they are tackled and are dispossessed or dispose of the ball illegally pay the free kick against them. When coaches know that defensive free kicks will be paid fairly they won't have to resort to ultra defensive tactics.

And for those of you who want to solve the bad rule problem by introducing yet more rules. ... stop it.
The player with the ball must also be protected, to much head high contact is not paid. And being first to the ball should not be a negative as it currently is.
The rest I agree.
 
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I had a good laugh at On the Couch the other night saying that although 6-6-6 hasn't helped the scoring what so ever it at least has made the game look better to watch.

Are they seriously watching the same game that we all are? All the 6-6-6 does is allow for teams to perhaps kick a goal quickly at the end of the game. Aside from this for what ever reasons the game just goes back to the same clogged up rubbish that it's always been in the last 10 or so years. I still to this day say cut the interchange and the game will free up more because you wont have players being able to run all over the ground.
 

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Thread starter #288
Copied the following from today's 'Age'

Presenting at a meeting of club chief executives, McLachlan outlined these options for AFLX, with the overriding point being that the AFL wished to keep that low-contact, modified and short form of the game continuing in future.

AFLX has attracted a mixture of derision and support, with much of the media critiquing negative, but the players who participated this year generally positive, when the all-star team concept was used.

The AFL’s football chief Steve Hocking, meanwhile, told the meeting that he felt the game was improved by the nine rule changes, although Hocking acknowledged – in response to a question – that he had thought the rules would increase scoring, which has declined further thus far.

Hocking told the clubs he felt the game was more open and that it had a better feel.

He said there had been a marked increase in scoring in the first minute after a centre bounce, in what would be caused by the six-six-six rule this year.

What planet is the AFL on? You seriously have to start asking: 'What is the agenda?" A "marked increase in scoring in the first minute after a centre bounce' WTF??? The game was improved by the nine rule changes??? Hocking felt that the game was more open and had a better feel????

These changes have resulted in widespread complaints about umpiring (and by the umpires themselves), crowd violence and abuse, pack football, low scoring, people turning the TV off. A success? My arse. Stop this football dictatorship and make AFL collaborative
 

PowerForGood

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If you want to reduce congestion don't give all the advantages to the person with the ball. If they are tackled and are dispossessed or dispose of the ball illegally pay the free kick against them. When coaches know that defensive free kicks will be paid fairly they won't have to resort to ultra defensive tactics.

And for those of you who want to solve the bad rule problem by introducing yet more rules. ... stop it.
Suggestion to reduce defensive football, make it EASIER to defend? Why bother hunting the ball, when you can just hunt the man?

I personally think it's the reverse, reward the ball players and ball winners even more. (only opinion of course)

Unless it's the obvious HTB decisions, make the only reward for the tackler be to stop the play, and create the opportunity to turnover the ball.
Also think there is possibly some merit in only one tackler allowed at a time, no gang tackles. Allows the ball winner to break the tackle.
 

Lionheart182

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Are the players doing the chasing the only ones that got fitter? Everyone is fitter, it’s all relative.

So you’re saying a forward or a player who takes a mark, has time to catch his breath, walks back and gets a set shot is so fatigued he can’t kick straight? Pull the other one.

Ben Brown is a pretty good example of a guy that can kick straight and through the ball. Roughead another one. And Hawkins. These guys just know how to kick the footy through the goals. They are the exceptions. Look at some of the techniques for goal kicking these days, it’s laughable. I’ve seen veteran forwards in the Amateur competition kick better.
Uncontested possession is double or triple what it was 20-30 years ago, players cannot kick on their wrong foot.
I agree that contested possession is under extreme pressure and far greater than it ever was,but half the game is uncontested and players can’t hit a target as professionals.
There is only a finite amount of space on the ground, all players are fitter but there is still the same amount of space there was 30 years ago, hence the emphasis on tactics to maximise that space. Kicking under fatigue is one of the hardest things you can do, you should try it sometime. Just run repeat sprints for 5-10km plus then see if you are recovered in 30 seconds and see how your kick changes. It would be interesting to see data on uncontested possessions now compared to the 80's as I am not sure it is that much worse despite there being a ton more uncontested footy compared to the contested style in days gone by.
 

Lionheart182

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So the increased pressure means skills are now worse than ever. Game set match.
If you put the respective groups in a skills comp the modern player would wipe the floor with most players from past generations. Would be a non-contest. The execution under fatigue and pressure is a different story to "skills" as a blanket term.
 

00Stinger

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The football has been bad this year.

I reckon it is down to a couple of things

* Players getting extended off season breaks means teams are spending less time on skills and more time on fitness.
* The other one is the AFL's insistence that tiring out players will increase scoring. No, it fatigues players and makes their skill level drop
 

iameviljez

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If you put the respective groups in a skills comp the modern player would wipe the floor with most players from past generations. Would be a non-contest. The execution under fatigue and pressure is a different story to "skills" as a blanket term.
Especially the kicking. You cannot get away with hoofing it now like you used to.
 

greatwhiteshark

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If you put the respective groups in a skills comp the modern player would wipe the floor with most players from past generations. Would be a non-contest. The execution under fatigue and pressure is a different story to "skills" as a blanket term.
Could not disagree more. This is just a myth.
 

Topkent

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If you put the respective groups in a skills comp the modern player would wipe the floor with most players from past generations. Would be a non-contest. The execution under fatigue and pressure is a different story to "skills" as a blanket term.
I don't believe that. The ground conditions were a ****load worse back in the day with rain and wind and mud. Either way it's a moot point because no matter how good you think the skills are now they aren't on show in modern footy. Its a terrible sport to watch
 

greatwhiteshark

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You don't think full time footballers would have better skills than guys who delivered mail or ran pubs during the week?
One would think they should but they don’t. Do you not watch the games?
You would be surprised just how little skills a worked on at AFL clubs. Of the 15-18 sessions an AFL footballer has a week at a club the bulk of them are in pools, yoga, football education, game plans, gyms.
I remember Karl Langdon and Dwayne Lamb both saying that when they went back to the WAFL after their AFL career that WAFL clubs did almost double the amount of skills training than AFL clubs and they train only 3 sessions a week.
The athlete first and footballer second recruiting AFL clubs do means they recruit many players who have below par skills.
Learning to kick a footy, getting the feel for distances and weights of your kick is something you learn at a very young age. Both Ckarkson and Hardwick have said On the Couch that there is very little you can do to change a players ingrown kicking ability by the time they reach AFL. You either can kick or you can’t.
Only in the last 5 years since Clarkson demanded it have AFL draft camps started to now test their actual football skills. How would that of never been the priority?
I just don’t see it as any different to other eras, yes today their are many highly skilled players, just as in other eras. There are also many poorly skilled players and as professionals that simply should not be the case.
 
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Ablett jr and Pendles stand out with their efficient ball use more than ever. They play the game in a pure way, effective and simple - dont waste the footy. The skills overall in the modern game have regressed. Players have also regressed.
 
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The best Hocking could come up with when asked at the meeting was: "The Feel of the game is better"

It's the vibe, it's Mabo....

It shows his bias. A professional in his role shouldn't we barracking for one outcome. he or she would be neutral and say right now that the new rules have reduced scoring, increased congestion, and made the game harder to umpire.

All Hocking did was search through all the statistics to present some positive "There is an increase in scoring sometimes, in the first minute after a bounce".

Hardly the plan they were talking about last year, and not worth the big inadvertent downturn they caused.
 

demondavey

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If you put the respective groups in a skills comp the modern player would wipe the floor with most players from past generations. Would be a non-contest. The execution under fatigue and pressure is a different story to "skills" as a blanket term.
People say reducing interchange rotations would fatigue players more so skills would be worse, yet in prior decades that was the case; interchange rotations were less yet we saw better skills and a more open field.

Paul Roos changed that in 2005 with his highly defensive Sydney team.
 
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