The worst football in a generation

Coach_Required

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Pay incorrect disposal and stop leaning on "ball knocked free in the tackle, play on". If you take possession of the footy it's your responsibility to legally dispose of the ball. Players are simply letting go of the footy when tackled or holding the ball out for a team mate to grab and they should be getting pinged.

Players will either bank on not having prior and hold onto the footy - so we get a ruck stoppage or HTB free depending on the umpires interpretation or they will be forced to try and dispose of the ball more obviously by hand or foot (ping the bloody throws too) - meaning other players can't collapse into the contest on expectation of player/s laying an egg.

Coaches will hate their players being forced to squeeze out handballs or little chipped kicks under pressure because it represents a loss of control. Guess what? **** the coaches.

It will open the game up and improve the spectacle 10 fold. Players who can read the play will be amply rewarded by getting to the right spot and have time and space to execute their skills instead of being caught in a rolling maul.

We have to use the mechanisms already in place in the rules to force players to stand further off the contest. This will give us space to play the game.
Said the same thing a few pages back and got shot down for not understanding the rule, but I agree with you. The non call of HTB is a complete farce and frustrating to watch.
 

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demondavey

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Finally, someone else picked this up!

Now, I am not saying that this was cheating. What I am saying is that when you have a football supremo (and also one person to interpret reports etc for that matter) you limit the understanding and perspectives that are brought to bear on any single issue. If you go back to Hocking's pronouncements on the rule changes they have been dogmatic, reflecting a single, I am right, view. What was there need - demonstrated by hard evidence? Where was the trialling? Where was the consultation especially with supporters? And the problem of only having limited perspectives is that the views/ values held by individuals come to have a disproportionate impact on decisions made. Hocking likes the way Geelong play, they are his 'gold standard' so change should be modelled on the Geelong way. Even blind Freddy could predict that with the changes Geelong have gone into 2019 with a leg up from the AFL.
Explain how they’ve advantaged Geelong only?
 

Vassp

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Hocking, McLachlan and the AFL Board should all resign. Their arrogance in changing the games has resulted in the most congestion, the lowest scoring and the most boring football in a generation.[/Q

I will disagree.....
People complain when the game is fast, complain when it’s finals like pressure, complain when there are too many tackles, and complain until it ends up like aflx or basketball.

What would you like?
hardly any tackles because everyone is playing keepings off?
Hardly any pressure because everyone is shrewd out in zones?
And 150 poonts per game snore fest ?

Play has to be earnt and so do goals.
Rant over.
 

RookiePick

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Said the same thing a few pages back and got shot down for not understanding the rule, but I agree with you. The non call of HTB is a complete farce and frustrating to watch.
Look at Rugby and American Football where letting go of the ball has negative repercussions for the the team in possession. It takes an amazing tackle to knock the ball loose. Yet in AFL we are supposed to believe a very large percentage of tackles dislodge the ball?

It's simply advantageous to drop the footy in AFL.
 

King Elvis

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Got nothing to do with the AFL it's the coaches. They are the biggest blight on the game.

All they care about in Winning, so they use the safest way to do that, by focusing on defense.

How exactly is the AFL responsible for 30+ players around the ball at all times?
Last year the footy was great.

This year, they've ****** it.

You can't blame the coaches - the beauty of the game is the coaches coming up with different styles, tactics and structures; and watching that change and evolve on a yearly basis. We know Lyon is ultra defensive. We know Clarko loves skilled possession footy. We know the Crows were traditionally offensively minded. We know Sydney like to flood.

All of those different game styles and approaches are part of the beauty of the game!!!

Take 2017; the Crows blew the comp away with rabid offense; and then got knocked over in the GF by Richmond, who went with a very small side and just hammered us with relentless pressure.

The AFL change rules for no reason, don't take into account the unintended consequences of their changes - which is demonstrated by just about every rule change they've made in the last 10 years - and cause problems.

Crows are now in the top 4 by building from defence; would I prefer that than our game style of 2017 which was built on offence...

Hell no - but we're winning with this style, so I'll take it.
 

King Elvis

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Pay incorrect disposal and stop leaning on "ball knocked free in the tackle, play on". If you take possession of the footy it's your responsibility to legally dispose of the ball. Players are simply letting go of the footy when tackled or holding the ball out for a team mate to grab and they should be getting pinged.

Players will either bank on not having prior and hold onto the footy - so we get a ruck stoppage or HTB free depending on the umpires interpretation or they will be forced to try and dispose of the ball more obviously by hand or foot (ping the bloody throws too) - meaning other players can't collapse into the contest on expectation of player/s laying an egg.

Coaches will hate their players being forced to squeeze out handballs or little chipped kicks under pressure because it represents a loss of control. Guess what? **** the coaches.

It will open the game up and improve the spectacle 10 fold. Players who can read the play will be amply rewarded by getting to the right spot and have time and space to execute their skills instead of being caught in a rolling maul.

We have to use the mechanisms already in place in the rules to force players to stand further off the contest. This will give us space to play the game.
This is the single biggest cause of the congestion in the game; changing the holding the ball rule.

There was no need for it - and if they fix it, the game will open back up.

Instead, they ****** it up, and now they put band aid after band aid on top of it, and it never works.
 

WilloTree

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Childish response. This is not about Hawthorn. If you look at the EVIDENCE - much lower scores, crowd disturbances, even some commentators breaking ranks with the AFL line and decrying the standard of football across most games then you'll see that the game is in trouble.
Record crowds, record memberships, closer competition, significant pay increase for players, greater opportunities for 18-year olds to play AFL, NGA pathways, AFLW (and expansion), Free Agency, Rookie-List Replacement rules, Expansion of AFL combine (eg Matthew Lloyd Clean Hands Test)...

Also, "some commentators breaking ranks with the AFL line and decrying the standard of football" isn't EVIDENCE. It's your hearsay on their opinion. I'd also hazard a guess that "crowd disturbances" were more commonplace in the 70s-80s when we were all crammed in like sardines on the hill, drunk full-strength beer and weren't given our own seat.
 

JohnnyFontane90

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People say reducing interchange rotations would fatigue players more so skills would be worse, yet in prior decades that was the case; interchange rotations were less yet we saw better skills and a more open field.

Paul Roos changed that in 2005 with his highly defensive Sydney team.
back in those days coaches weren't evolved enough to implement team defense. and even if they were, the players were never close to being fit enough to pull it off.

these days sam walsh is a first year player who plays 108 of a possible 121 minutes of full midfield time (so about 2.5 mins of rest each qtr). the level of fitness of some players now is overcoming the reduction of interchanges.

What we need is to bring back unlimited interchanges so that all the players are fit and rested, so there's no advantage to be gained by being an endurance beast so the coaches/players/recruiters focus on skills first and foremost.
 

Gaborone

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Thread starter #336
Record crowds, record memberships, closer competition, significant pay increase for players, greater opportunities for 18-year olds to play AFL, NGA pathways, AFLW (and expansion), Free Agency, Rookie-List Replacement rules, Expansion of AFL combine (eg Matthew Lloyd Clean Hands Test)...

Also, "some commentators breaking ranks with the AFL line and decrying the standard of football" isn't EVIDENCE. It's your hearsay on their opinion. I'd also hazard a guess that "crowd disturbances" were more commonplace in the 70s-80s when we were all crammed in like sardines on the hill, drunk full-strength beer and weren't given our own seat.
I don't know if you were old enough to be there then but I certainly was, and I went every week and there were very few crowd disturbances. Every one from overseas I take to the football is amazed that supporters from opposing teams sit in the same area. That's something I have been really proud of. Now there are fights breaking out in the crowd and its all to do with frustration at the game, at the umpiring, at the low scores, at the ball being kicked down the line again and again and the short passes.

The things you write about: 'significant pay increase for players, greater opportunities for 18-year olds to play AFL, NGA pathways, AFLW (and expansion), Free Agency, Rookie-List Replacement rules, Expansion of AFL combine (eg Matthew Lloyd Clean Hands Test)...' mean nothing if the game is screwed.

Do you work for the AFL?
 

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demondavey

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back in those days coaches weren't evolved enough to implement team defense. and even if they were, the players were never close to being fit enough to pull it off.

these days sam walsh is a first year player who plays 108 of a possible 121 minutes of full midfield time (so about 2.5 mins of rest each qtr). the level of fitness of some players now is overcoming the reduction of interchanges.

What we need is to bring back unlimited interchanges so that all the players are fit and rested, so there's no advantage to be gained by being an endurance beast so the coaches/players/recruiters focus on skills first and foremost.
You think bringing back unlimited interchange would improve the game?
 

JohnnyFontane90

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You think bringing back unlimited interchange would improve the game?
100% it would.

there's no evidence that interchanges ever adversely affected the game in the first place. I'm not sure who came up with that idea....

in round 3 of 2013 the crows had 169 interchanges (most ever recorded) and lost the showdown 118-109. 2013 is the year that interchanges were at their maximum before the cap came in and is also the highest scoring season in over a decade. scoring has been in decline every year they've reduced interchanges.

Now scoring isn't a true measure of how good the game is going, but it's probably the only objective metric we can really use.

team defense (flooding, forward press, zone etc) is what's destroyed the game as a spectacle but unfortunately there is no real way to combat that without introducing rigid zones for 100% of the game.
 

yeahmate

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team defense (flooding, forward press, zone etc) is what's destroyed the game as a spectacle but unfortunately there is no real way to combat that without introducing rigid zones for 100% of the game.
I agree that the problem is team defence but I think it could be improved by reversing some of the recent rule changes and going back to the way things were previously.

Team defence has become the only viable way to stop goals only because the AFL keeps changing the rules to remove the ability of defenders competing on a level playing field with forwards. Trying to engineer more goals through rule changes has actually had the opposite effect because now there is only really one workable tactic to stop goals from being easily scored (i.e team defence).
 

Sprout

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This reads like a parody of every other thread that gets created on this topic. Apparently every year is the worst football ever.
 

SunshineTiger

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Record crowds and ratings say hello.
Quote someone other th@n Gill for this, this is an administration which will lie if it suits their agenda, the tv ratings in the last Nielsen survey didn’t exactly set the world on fire so I take the AFL version of supporter interest with a grain of salt
 

King Elvis

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100% it would.

there's no evidence that interchanges ever adversely affected the game in the first place. I'm not sure who came up with that idea....

in round 3 of 2013 the crows had 169 interchanges (most ever recorded) and lost the showdown 118-109. 2013 is the year that interchanges were at their maximum before the cap came in and is also the highest scoring season in over a decade. scoring has been in decline every year they've reduced interchanges.

Now scoring isn't a true measure of how good the game is going, but it's probably the only objective metric we can really use.

team defense (flooding, forward press, zone etc) is what's destroyed the game as a spectacle but unfortunately there is no real way to combat that without introducing rigid zones for 100% of the game.
I agree totally.

They want to speed the game up, and open it up; and then they reduce interchanges, which has the complete opposite effect.

I've got no problem with unlimited interchange - the guys can run their arses off and then take a break - slowing them down and making them more exhausted doesn't open the game up, as the players are too knackered to keep running and creating space.
 

Topkent

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Yet here you are, watching games (I assume) and commenting on forums. I suggest ragging on the state of the game is in vogue at the moment and the product actually is not that bad. Each to their own I guess.
Because I find this forum more entertaining than AFL footy and ******** with your vogue ****. I don't care if anyone else likes it Its a garbage product now
 

demondavey

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Yet here you are, watching games (I assume) and commenting on forums. I suggest ragging on the state of the game is in vogue at the moment and the product actually is not that bad. Each to their own I guess.
The product is bad. It’s predictable and bad. We simply have a rolling maul of players that zone from one end to the other. It won’t improve whilst the current administration continues to implement rules with ambiguity. It won’t change whilst non footballers continually get overlooked in favour of anaerobic monsters.
 

demondavey

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Look at the paddocks of space in the screen. Look at the zones everywhere. If the ball goes to the left of screen then those players simply flood down the other end.

Who switches these days? Why isn’t that Giants player at the corner of the square standing in the centre square?
F755FE71-29FC-4ABF-A892-66374818CD98.jpeg
 

demondavey

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Pay incorrect disposal and stop leaning on "ball knocked free in the tackle, play on". If you take possession of the footy it's your responsibility to legally dispose of the ball. Players are simply letting go of the footy when tackled or holding the ball out for a team mate to grab and they should be getting pinged.

Players will either bank on not having prior and hold onto the footy - so we get a ruck stoppage or HTB free depending on the umpires interpretation or they will be forced to try and dispose of the ball more obviously by hand or foot (ping the bloody throws too) - meaning other players can't collapse into the contest on expectation of player/s laying an egg.

Coaches will hate their players being forced to squeeze out handballs or little chipped kicks under pressure because it represents a loss of control. Guess what? **** the coaches.

It will open the game up and improve the spectacle 10 fold. Players who can read the play will be amply rewarded by getting to the right spot and have time and space to execute their skills instead of being caught in a rolling maul.

We have to use the mechanisms already in place in the rules to force players to stand further off the contest. This will give us space to play the game.
Isn’t ball knocked free in a tackle holding the ball?
 

mxett

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Last year the footy was great.

This year, they've ****** it.

You can't blame the coaches - the beauty of the game is the coaches coming up with different styles, tactics and structures; and watching that change and evolve on a yearly basis. We know Lyon is ultra defensive. We know Clarko loves skilled possession footy. We know the Crows were traditionally offensively minded. We know Sydney like to flood.

All of those different game styles and approaches are part of the beauty of the game!!!

Take 2017; the Crows blew the comp away with rabid offense; and then got knocked over in the GF by Richmond, who went with a very small side and just hammered us with relentless pressure.

The AFL change rules for no reason, don't take into account the unintended consequences of their changes - which is demonstrated by just about every rule change they've made in the last 10 years - and cause problems.

Crows are now in the top 4 by building from defence; would I prefer that than our game style of 2017 which was built on offence...

Hell no - but we're winning with this style, so I'll take it.
in the end basically every team congests the are around the ball and zones behind the ball when not in possession. They've all followed this method because it's a proven winner. Problem is, at what cost?

I wouldnt say this year is worse than last, they're both difficult to watch for most games
 
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