The WTC is a gimmick

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Plugger35

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Amazing how many complaints there have been about the WTC since NZ won it, it isn't a perfect system but they still won it fair and square with the rules in place.

The final between NZ and India was played at a neutral venue in England and NZ were the better team and deserved winners, just a pity it was rain affected and couldn't be played at Lord's due to Covid and have a bigger crowd in attendance.

You could argue that the final should be more than just one test but if you had a 3 test series final the result could end up 1-1 and then who would be the winner?
 

Park cricketer

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A best of 3 finals, even though some teams otherwise only play two-match series, is just as much of a contradiction as having a one-off Test.

I wouldn't mind a best of 2 finals either, but that wouldn't lead to a lot of results probably. Ideally 2 match test series should be banned and a test series should be a minimum of a 3 test series.
 

Park cricketer

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Amazing how many complaints there have been about the WTC since NZ won it, it isn't a perfect system but they still won it fair and square with the rules in place.

The final between NZ and India was played at a neutral venue in England and NZ were the better team and deserved winners, just a pity it was rain affected and couldn't be played at Lord's due to Covid and have a bigger crowd in attendance.

You could argue that the final should be more than just one test but if you had a 3 test series final the result could end up 1-1 and then who would be the winner?

This is not about New Zealand or India at all. They are not going to make the final of every edition. But the system in its current form is a broken system. Like PhatBoy said, it's the tennis equivalent of having a grandslam final with one set.
 

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Alfonz

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Amazing how many complaints there have been about the WTC since NZ won it, it isn't a perfect system but they still won it fair and square with the rules in place.

The final between NZ and India was played at a neutral venue in England and NZ were the better team and deserved winners, just a pity it was rain affected and couldn't be played at Lord's due to Covid and have a bigger crowd in attendance.

You could argue that the final should be more than just one test but if you had a 3 test series final the result could end up 1-1 and then who would be the winner?

Strange point on 1-1, when a single test could end in a draw. In which case the rules are that it is shared. They'd do the same with a 1-1 result.
 

Carn The Berries

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Not sure when we are going to acknowledge it. Yes, the concept of a grand final can be suitable for the T20 and ODI formats where the conditions mostly remain the same for both innings except for maybe the dew. But the idea of deciding the best team in Test cricket based on a single one off game feels like a gimmick to me. It should at least be a 3 test series between the finalists. Ideally I would prefer the final to be conducted across 3 conditions (one in the subcontinent to test the teams against spin, one in Aus/SA to test against pace and bounce and one in Eng/NZ to test against swing/slow seamers), a bit like how teams play home and away legs in a semifinal tie in the Champions league football match. But I know that's unrealistic, so a best of 3 series in any fixed venue country would suffice.

Having a one off test doesn't tell you if it's the best team or not. Imagine Australia or New Zealand winning across the world and imagine if Sri Lanka or Pakistan or India makes the final on the back of winning ruthlessly at home and the final is scheduled on a rank turner in Sri Lanka or India, and Australia or NZ loses the toss in the final. I see the WTC in its current form to evoke interest in Test cricket among the casual fans more than it caters for the purists. We didn't need the WTC to decide which was the best team in test cricket for more than a 100 years before, but for a format that values longevity, endurance, versatility and survival, having a one off final to decide the best team in Test cricket feels like a pyjama cricket gimmick to me.

Your thoughts?

It gives the ICC a mechanism to punish teams for slow over rates rather than actually being decisive and suspending captains! :tearsofjoy:
 

fargothegreat

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Different sport, but we have accepted that in AFL-- much to your benefit in 2017.

Could Lords become the MCG equivalent for the WTC? It is after all the home of cricket, and would ensure a good turnout to every iteration regardless of the teams involved.
The home ground advantage you get in footy vs cricket is hardly comparable.
 

corbies

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It gives the ICC a mechanism to punish teams for slow over rates rather than actually being decisive and suspending captains! :tearsofjoy:
The ICC were suspending captains for over rates for ages and there was a massive blow up which is why they got rid of it.
 

cricketnut14

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Eventually I would hope that the final evolves into something like the AFL GF: a one off event that everyone is desperate to make just for a shot at glory, even though it might not be the best way of identifying the best team over the whole season. I agree that it would be lame if the final ends up on the home ground of one of the finalists, giving them a huge advantage. Perhaps in future they can decide the location of the final after the top two is locked in.

but the AFL (pre covid) had home grand finals in 2010,11,18 (collingwood), 2012,13,14,15 (hawthorn), 2017,19 (richmond) etc etc.

i think the ICC decide where the final is played prior to the tournament , a bit like the NFL although i'm not sure if this WTC final venue has been decided.
the cycle finishes at the end of march 2023, so my guess is it will be in India or in England at the start of their summer - making the ashes the first series in the next cycle.

the cricket is a little trickier depending on where the want the WTC to fixture to finish. i mean the final aint gonna be played in australia or new zealand , if the final is in june etc .

the whole thing is tricky:
-everyone doesn't play everyone evenly
-cramming it into 2 years ?
-teams playing different number of tests (anywhere between 12-22)
-not all scheduled series played - that they didn't plan for when they should've coz ind-pak always cancel on each other etc (in the last cycle - covid related)
-ensuruing australia play england and india (one at home and the other away in every WTC cycle) - which surely impacts on other teams fixtures playing the other teams more regularly as well.
- the disrespect shown to nations by playing 2 test series
-no promotion/relegation from the last cycle
-zim/ire/afh not included in it etc etc

does anyone even look at the ladder ? and if so, the average punter would have no idea how it works.
 

Carn The Berries

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The ICC were suspending captains for over rates for ages and there was a massive blow up which is why they got rid of it.

And because they were too gutless to stand up to the captains/countries we are back in the same place again. Fines and loss of WTC points will make negligible difference to changing player behaviour. The amount of stoppages in play (from both batting and bowling sides) is an absolute farce in all forms of cricket these days, not just test matches.

Change it back and actually make captains take some responsibility for what happens on the ground. They've already changed the playing conditions to allow an extra half an hour, which covers and DRS related stoppages. Everything else that currently holds up play is within the realm of the players to manage.
 

Howard Littlejohn

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I don't know about "gimmick" but its far from ideal.

There are a number of things that would be changed in an ideal world, but unfortunately Test cricket lives in a T20 world. Even within those restrictions it could be greatly improved.
 

Silly Mid On

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A couple of novel ideas for the final (assuming cost and time aren't issues, which they always are unfortunately).

Option 1:
Final held in the country of the reigning WTC winner

Option 2 (3 Test Final Series)
No 1 ranked team hosts 1st and 3rd match
No 2 ranked team hosts 2nd

Option 3 (3 Teat Final Series)
No 1 ranked team hosts 1st test.
No 2 ranked team hosts 2nd test
Lords hosts the 3rd deciding test if required
 

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Blue1980

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It’s been tough with logistical issues and covid. However, I think it was needed to give all matches meaning and it’s still being worked through.

I like they way they have just gone for it and put it in, as if we waited for everything to be perfect you’d be waiting forever.

Now at least it’s in place we can tinker as we go.
 

Blue1980

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Strange point on 1-1, when a single test could end in a draw. In which case the rules are that it is shared. They'd do the same with a 1-1 result.

A 6 day test should ensure a result though, unless it’s completely washed out.

Fairly rare nowadays to have draws in tests where rain doesn’t intervene.
 

Blue1980

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I don't know about "gimmick" but its far from ideal.

There are a number of things that would be changed in an ideal world, but unfortunately Test cricket lives in a T20 world. Even within those restrictions it could be greatly improved.

Biggest change is the attitude the big 3 have towards the rest of the cricket world, with australia being the worst culprit by far.

Only one series against a full member in Bangladesh since 2006 is a disgrace.

Fulfilling all our sub continent tours this year is essential.

If any players decline touring Pakistan, they should be barred from playing cash cow 20-20 tournaments otherwise suspended from playing for australia for 2 years.
 

Blue1980

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A couple of novel ideas for the final (assuming cost and time aren't issues, which they always are unfortunately).

Option 1:
Final held in the country of the reigning WTC winner

Option 2 (3 Test Final Series)
No 1 ranked team hosts 1st and 3rd match
No 2 ranked team hosts 2nd

Option 3 (3 Teat Final Series)
No 1 ranked team hosts 1st test.
No 2 ranked team hosts 2nd test
Lords hosts the 3rd deciding test if required

Out of those I prefer option 1, I like the one off test at a pre-determined venue. Even if it was at lords for the foreseeable future I’d be happy, it would ensure a decent crowd regardless of who’s playing I’d think.

I think the other ideas are logistically messy. Nothing wrong with one off tests when there is context. Often the longer series is a way of ensuring a visiting side can work their way into the series, get used to conditions etc.

Ideally you’d have all full members having a series against each other in a designated period, with the next period reversing the home/away from the previous one.
 

Howard Littlejohn

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A couple of novel ideas for the final (assuming cost and time aren't issues, which they always are unfortunately).

Option 1:
Final held in the country of the reigning WTC winner

Option 2 (3 Test Final Series)
No 1 ranked team hosts 1st and 3rd match
No 2 ranked team hosts 2nd

Option 3 (3 Teat Final Series)
No 1 ranked team hosts 1st test.
No 2 ranked team hosts 2nd test
Lords hosts the 3rd deciding test if required
Options 2&3 are problematic. 1st test in Melbourne in February, 2nd Test in Jamaica in May, 3rd Test in London in June or Sydney in October? Or similar issues across hemispheres and monsoon seasons.
 

Art Vandelay_

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The one-off final is flawed but it doesn't make it a gimmick. The big 3 playing each other more often than anyone else is way more gimmicky imo.
Not gimicky IMV. Pure economics.

When I see the Future Tours schedule I am hardly enthused for the summer where we host the Windies or Sri Lanka. They're just dull affairs as we're far too good for test nations of that low calibre.

Comes down to $$$. More bums on seats for the bigger series. More eyes on TV screens.
And I'm a test cricket is king devotee
 

footyfan1978

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I think it is a work in progress. It's good how they have preserved the bilateral series aspect of test cricket and ensured that every test match has relevance. The points system has improved from the last iteration but could still do with some tweaking.

Eventually I would hope that the final evolves into something like the AFL GF: a one off event that everyone is desperate to make just for a shot at glory, even though it might not be the best way of identifying the best team over the whole season. I agree that it would be lame if the final ends up on the home ground of one of the finalists, giving them a huge advantage. Perhaps in future they can decide the location of the final after the top two is locked in.
Hence, I think the final in Lords is perfect. Does not favour most nations so closest to neutral we can find.
My only annoyance is I would prefer it be a three or four week finals series where top 3 or 4 nations in world invited and maybe they all play each other once there before the final of top two to decide the title.
That would add more of build up to final.
 

melanChronic

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Of interest is that in all of the ICC Future Tours documentation, the AUS tour to Pakistan was listed as a two test series. It seems that it was a recent decision by the PCB to rule out ANY two test series from 2023, and that they were also able to renegotiate with CA to upgrade the upcoming series:
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/848268-pcb-decides-to-eliminate-two-match-test-series-from-2023

This is great news, and hopefully other boards follow suit. It would certainly add credibility to the WTC model if all series were at least 3 matches long.
 

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