Society & Culture Things in life you just don't understand - Part 3

Gralin

Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Posts
29,436
Likes
44,098
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
Admin #6,126
Its an interesting one all this newstart and cant get a job etc. Its a bit like people say they cant buy a house because of prices, there are houses, you will just have to move from where you live. Same with newstart, don't spend 70-80% of your newstart on rent, move out from the city more to where rent is cheaper if it is such a struggle.

But people don't want to move or live in a smaller house etc. They want to live where they have grown up or better but expect it to come cheap or affordable. My parents grew up in Northcote, when they got married they couldn't afford a house in Northcote so they built a house in Eltham. They had kids and when we were old enough to buy a house, we couldn't afford a house in Eltham so we brought another 20mins away from the city. You have to live in what you can afford or where you can afford.

My missus is the perfect example, she bought a house, had 2 kids and then separated. Couldn't afford the house she was in so sold up, and bought something much less and nowhere near as good. Survived for a few years on single mum pension and some cash jobs but survived (without any help from her ex in the way of child support etc). She brought what she could afford (barely, but could afford)
I love this one. The assumption is that the issue is all about the person.

So if you are on new start which is $277 pw, how much should you spend on rent. Let's say half so you can afford bills, food, clothes and transport (hah)
$137pw

For that you are going to need another person or two to split a 2 or 3 bedroom place with, best bet would be a couple in a two bedder, you might get away with that, 50kms out of town.

So now you're living where public transport is almost non existent, and there aren't any jobs. You can't afford a car out of that other $137 so good luck getting to interviews and a job.

With housing
We bought a **** old house 40kms from town 5 years ago, 3 months after we bought prices where we were had gone up by 25%, we wouldn't have been able to buy in that market, we were lucky to get in. We'd looked further out, I had to be able to get to the city for work, we looked at places that were past the end of the train line but anywhere within half an hour was priced almost the same as the suburb where the train line ended.

When the prices are going up quicker than you can save, and rent keeps going up good luck breaking into the market. Move further out is great but there is only so far you can travel to get to your job before it starts to impact you, not everyone can choose to work closer to where they live.

Then there is the fact that there is no infrastructure where a lot of these so called cheaper houses are. So you got no school, no supermarket, no hospital etc within 30+ minutes of where you live, and you're two hours from work so there goes 4 hours a day just in transport on top of your job, good luck if you have to get the kids to school and get to work.

Sure there are going to be people that want it all, that's nothing new or specific to the current crop of people trying to break into the property market or job market but there are legitimate issues
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

craigos

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Posts
8,173
Likes
15,518
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Liverpool
I love this one. The assumption is that the issue is all about the person.

So if you are on new start which is $277 pw, how much should you spend on rent. Let's say half so you can afford bills, food, clothes and transport (hah)
$137pw

For that you are going to need another person or two to split a 2 or 3 bedroom place with, best bet would be a couple in a two bedder, you might get away with that, 50kms out of town.

So now you're living where public transport is almost non existent, and there aren't any jobs. You can't afford a car out of that other $137 so good luck getting to interviews and a job.

With housing
We bought a **** old house 40kms from town 5 years ago, 3 months after we bought prices where we were had gone up by 25%, we wouldn't have been able to buy in that market, we were lucky to get in. We'd looked further out, I had to be able to get to the city for work, we looked at places that were past the end of the train line but anywhere within half an hour was priced almost the same as the suburb where the train line ended.

When the prices are going up quicker than you can save, and rent keeps going up good luck breaking into the market. Move further out is great but there is only so far you can travel to get to your job before it starts to impact you, not everyone can choose to work closer to where they live.

Then there is the fact that there is no infrastructure where a lot of these so called cheaper houses are. So you got no school, no supermarket, no hospital etc within 30+ minutes of where you live, and you're two hours from work so there goes 4 hours a day just in transport on top of your job, good luck if you have to get the kids to school and get to work.

Sure there are going to be people that want it all, that's nothing new or specific to the current crop of people trying to break into the property market or job market but there are legitimate issues
Correct me if I'm wrong but can't you claim rental assistance as well?
 

Gralin

Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Posts
29,436
Likes
44,098
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
Admin #6,128
Correct me if I'm wrong but can't you claim rental assistance as well?
yes, if you pay 150pw in rent they will pay you $67pw maximum towards that, if your rent costs more you don't get anymore, if you rent costs less you get less, assuming you are eligible.

So assuming you are spending $150pw on rent and are eligible and on New Start, after rent you have $194 left to pay for everything else.

It's not a lot, as long as nothing goes wrong you can make it work but the minute anything goes wrong where you need cash you are ******

That's the biggest issue, you're living week to week hoping nothing goes wrong and aren't in the position to get the money together to protect against that event that will happen because it does to everyone at some point
 

FRUMPY

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Posts
8,895
Likes
7,785
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I love this one. The assumption is that the issue is all about the person.

So if you are on new start which is $277 pw, how much should you spend on rent. Let's say half so you can afford bills, food, clothes and transport (hah)
$137pw

For that you are going to need another person or two to split a 2 or 3 bedroom place with, best bet would be a couple in a two bedder, you might get away with that, 50kms out of town.

So now you're living where public transport is almost non existent, and there aren't any jobs. You can't afford a car out of that other $137 so good luck getting to interviews and a job.

With housing
We bought a **** old house 40kms from town 5 years ago, 3 months after we bought prices where we were had gone up by 25%, we wouldn't have been able to buy in that market, we were lucky to get in. We'd looked further out, I had to be able to get to the city for work, we looked at places that were past the end of the train line but anywhere within half an hour was priced almost the same as the suburb where the train line ended.

When the prices are going up quicker than you can save, and rent keeps going up good luck breaking into the market. Move further out is great but there is only so far you can travel to get to your job before it starts to impact you, not everyone can choose to work closer to where they live.

Then there is the fact that there is no infrastructure where a lot of these so called cheaper houses are. So you got no school, no supermarket, no hospital etc within 30+ minutes of where you live, and you're two hours from work so there goes 4 hours a day just in transport on top of your job, good luck if you have to get the kids to school and get to work.

Sure there are going to be people that want it all, that's nothing new or specific to the current crop of people trying to break into the property market or job market but there are legitimate issues
General question, what savings did you have at 20 years of age? 25? 30? (not sure how old you are but you get the drift)

Most people I know who 'cant afford a house' either want a 4 bedroom house in expensive suburbs or haven't saved (buy a brand new car rather than 2nd hand car, go on an overseas holiday annually etc or just generally blow all their money). Then get to 30 and cry poor.

As for the newstart, if you are on $277 p/w it would be tough but yes, you would have to rent a room, not a house until you get an education/job etc. Cant just expect the government to pay the bills
 

HTPunter

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Posts
4,284
Likes
4,767
AFL Club
North Melbourne
General question, what savings did you have at 20 years of age? 25? 30? (not sure how old you are but you get the drift)

Most people I know who 'cant afford a house' either want a 4 bedroom house in expensive suburbs or haven't saved (buy a brand new car rather than 2nd hand car, go on an overseas holiday annually etc or just generally blow all their money). Then get to 30 and cry poor.

As for the newstart, if you are on $277 p/w it would be tough but yes, you would have to rent a room, not a house until you get an education/job etc. Cant just expect the government to pay the bills
"A 4 bedroom house in an expensive suburb"

Yeah that's what all the first homebuyers want, just wanting to bloody leech off the government!
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,453
Likes
21,441
AFL Club
West Coast
‘Just move’ for a job or house is an easy thing to say. But in addition to the problems with moving farther and farther away from the city (jobs) centre pointed out, most people aren’t comfortable with just upping stocks and leaving their family and support networks behind. It’s not always a practical response.
 

Milang_Panthers

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
9,246
Likes
4,017
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Canberra Raiders,Crystal Palace F.C
We make it seem so simple in telling people to get a job.

I put up a support worker role 2 days ago and to date we have 70 odd applications. Applying must become quite disheartening
I work at Woolies and we put up a job online for a nightfiller/day time shelf stacker and got more than 250 applications in a week! Absolutely nuts.
 

Gralin

Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Posts
29,436
Likes
44,098
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
Admin #6,133
General question, what savings did you have at 20 years of age? 25? 30? (not sure how old you are but you get the drift)
Not really relevant to the discussion on newstart or housing affordability.
I was 28 when I got my first place, it was a 2 bedroom unit on a block of 6, I was earning less than $50k at the time and had managed to scrounge up $25k by moving back into my parents place when they needed someone to look after it while they went traveling. If I'd still been renting no way would I have gotten the money together at that point.

Most people I know who 'cant afford a house' either want a 4 bedroom house in expensive suburbs or haven't saved (buy a brand new car rather than 2nd hand car, go on an overseas holiday annually etc or just generally blow all their money). Then get to 30 and cry poor.
Are you a boomer? Do you read the Murdoch rags because this is pretty much word for word what I hear from that cross section, regurgitating what is written by his "journalists"

I know people who have never had a new car, never been overseas and will probably never be home owners because they are paying the equivalent of a mortgage in rent and can't save a deposit quickly enough to keep up with the market so that they can enter it.

As for the newstart, if you are on $277 p/w it would be tough but yes, you would have to rent a room, not a house until you get an education/job etc. Cant just expect the government to pay the bills
That's the bloody point of welfare! That the government pays the bills. Our welfare system is purposefully putting people below the poverty line and the politicians just shrug and say we can't afford to do anything about it while they give $12 billion to private schools, or tax cuts to big business, or tax cuts to high income earners.

They can find more money for the rich but when it comes to the poor they just shrug and say sorry get a job loser.
 

craigos

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Posts
8,173
Likes
15,518
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Liverpool
‘Just move’ for a job or house is an easy thing to say. But in addition to the problems with moving farther and farther away from the city (jobs) centre pointed out, most people aren’t comfortable with just upping stocks and leaving their family and support networks behind. It’s not always a practical response.
People are soft. I think it's an Australian thing because all around the world people who are needing work will move and travel huge distances to obtain it.
Even migrants in this country are 10 times more willing to make sacrifices to work.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

edgie

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Posts
38,397
Likes
40,781
Location
The 'Yabba
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Chael Sonnen: Moral Champion
I also like the suggestion that Newstart is enough to ‘rent a room’ as if every person Newstart is a uni graduate. What if you’re a husband and father?
Like my dad that survived for 13 years supporting a wife and two kids with no work that spent twelve hours a day doing whatever handyman or labour type work he could get as well as umpiring whatever local sports were going on? Easily would have umpired over a thousand games of footy in that time across all grades?

It's possible you know.

OF COURSE - this relies on the cash economy. Another thing the government is trying to kill and it seems more progressive minded people are in full support of.
 
Joined
May 5, 2006
Posts
47,899
Likes
49,327
AFL Club
West Coast
I also like the suggestion that Newstart is enough to ‘rent a room’ as if every person Newstart is a uni graduate. What if you’re a husband and father?
If you are a husband and father then you probably shouldn't be living hand to mouth. Everything is easier said than done but the govt doesn't owe anyone a living or a lifestyle. If you are 25 or 30 or whatever and have a wife, family, house in the suburbs I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that if you lose your job that you can look after yourself for a period before needing govt assistance. The real problem is that if you are used to $60k or $80k or $100k or whatever it is to look after a family and that's taken away how will you get it back? And how long will that take?

But yeah as I said earlier I am a fan of more over a shorter period than less over a longer one. Welfare in middle age also becomes a bit like the pension argument. 'I've worked hard all me life and paid me taxes so I deserve XYZ'. Does someone who is 45 and has paid $10-30k in income tax every year for two decades deserve more or less or the same than someone who is 20 and has contributed nothing?
 

FRUMPY

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Posts
8,895
Likes
7,785
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I know people who have never had a new car, never been overseas and will probably never be home owners because they are paying the equivalent of a mortgage in rent and can't save a deposit quickly enough to keep up with the market so that they can enter it.
So they got to 18, moved out of home and pay rent the rest of their lives? Didn't think too far ahead did they? Why is it they cant save enough for a deposit? Maybe change jobs/occupation etc

I get it, some people are born into a **** situation, deadbeat folks etc but most just aren't smart enough to look big picture - go to school, get a job (either a trade or Uni then a job etc) & save.
 

craigos

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Posts
8,173
Likes
15,518
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Liverpool
Centrelink should be a stop-gap, not something to be relied upon for lengthy periods of time. I understand that there are circumstances when people can't work and they should be receiving the appropriate service, but Newstart is about job seekers.

I struggled for a job for a while straight out of school, you know what I did? Joined some thing (forget its name) where you would go around and do weeding, build paths etc (like an unqualified poor mans Park ranger). It gave me some extra cash, experience and even better motivated me like a mad man. No one would have guessed I'd go on to do what I currently do now if they saw me back then. Hell, people probably thought I was a loser, I didn't care. I went and helped at charitys (before Hipsters and vintage clothing was cool) and ultimately ended up saving enough to leave my state and chase a dream.

It's damn hard, I get it, but if you're just sending out email after email to jobs advertised it's not going to work. Kids should be taught in school how to hustle because no-one has any idea how to get out there now.
 

Gralin

Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Posts
29,436
Likes
44,098
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
Admin #6,141
So they got to 18, moved out of home and pay rent the rest of their lives? Didn't think too far ahead did they? Why is it they cant save enough for a deposit? Maybe change jobs/occupation etc

I get it, some people are born into a **** situation, deadbeat folks etc but most just aren't smart enough to look big picture - go to school, get a job (either a trade or Uni then a job etc) & save.
Oh I see, you've just got this view that anyone who can't afford a house is either a dead beat or unrealistic.

Seems also anyone that moved out of home at 18 is an idiot now. I mean what if they moved out to go get that education you seem to think everyone renting and or on NewStart doesn't have. What if they weren't given a choice about moving out? What if they needed to get out because their home was abusive?

Now you're throwing the old Joe Hockey in as well, can't afford to save while paying rent, just get a better job then. Don't get paid enough to save a deposit well you must not have gone to school then. The mind boggles.

Centrelink should be a stop-gap, not something to be relied upon for lengthy periods of time. I understand that there are circumstances when people can't work and they should be receiving the appropriate service, but Newstart is about job seekers.

I struggled for a job for a while straight out of school, you know what I did? Joined some thing (forget its name) where you would go around and do weeding, build paths etc (like an unqualified poor mans Park ranger). It gave me some extra cash, experience and even better motivated me like a mad man. No one would have guessed I'd go on to do what I currently do now if they saw me back then. Hell, people probably thought I was a loser, I didn't care. I went and helped at charitys (before Hipsters and vintage clothing was cool) and ultimately ended up saving enough to leave my state and chase a dream.

It's damn hard, I get it, but if you're just sending out email after email to jobs advertised it's not going to work. Kids should be taught in school how to hustle because no-one has any idea how to get out there now.
In an ideal world NewStart would be a stop gap. People would find work and that would be that. The funny thing about our economy though is the system is built on the fact that unemployment will never be 0%

There will always be people that want work that can't get it for whatever reason. And now we have underemployment masking the reality of the unemployment number. We've got people that were able to find work but not full time work. Maybe its part time, maybe it's casual, maybe it's driving an uber etc.

The longest I've been out of work was 6 months and I was lucky I had enough in the bank to keep paying the mortgage while looking for the next job, but I was about a week away from needing to go down to centre link when I did get a job, I had to defer some utilities until my first pay check cleared.

One issue I had during that 6 months was that people wouldn't consider me for jobs they thought I would leave when something better came along. Fair enough for them why go through the process of hiring someone twice, but **** for me because when you are willing to work, spend the time and money to go to interviews and get nothing back, you're spending money to get rejected which isn't a fun place to be.

Then you've got centrelink, the politicians and your nice fellow Aussies looking down their noses at you saying you don't want to work, you're a dole bludger etc.

Of course some people give up, a lot just get pushed down by the system and how it's setup, our welfare system doesn't really help people get off it. A few more $$ a week would for a lot of people help them get off the welfare but most don't want to believe it.
 

craigos

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Posts
8,173
Likes
15,518
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Liverpool
Oh I see, you've just got this view that anyone who can't afford a house is either a dead beat or unrealistic.

Seems also anyone that moved out of home at 18 is an idiot now. I mean what if they moved out to go get that education you seem to think everyone renting and or on NewStart doesn't have. What if they weren't given a choice about moving out? What if they needed to get out because their home was abusive?

Now you're throwing the old Joe Hockey in as well, can't afford to save while paying rent, just get a better job then. Don't get paid enough to save a deposit well you must not have gone to school then. The mind boggles.


In an ideal world NewStart would be a stop gap. People would find work and that would be that. The funny thing about our economy though is the system is built on the fact that unemployment will never be 0%

There will always be people that want work that can't get it for whatever reason. And now we have underemployment masking the reality of the unemployment number. We've got people that were able to find work but not full time work. Maybe its part time, maybe it's casual, maybe it's driving an uber etc.

The longest I've been out of work was 6 months and I was lucky I had enough in the bank to keep paying the mortgage while looking for the next job, but I was about a week away from needing to go down to centre link when I did get a job, I had to defer some utilities until my first pay check cleared.

One issue I had during that 6 months was that people wouldn't consider me for jobs they thought I would leave when something better came along. Fair enough for them why go through the process of hiring someone twice, but **** for me because when you are willing to work, spend the time and money to go to interviews and get nothing back, you're spending money to get rejected which isn't a fun place to be.

Then you've got centrelink, the politicians and your nice fellow Aussies looking down their noses at you saying you don't want to work, you're a dole bludger etc.

Of course some people give up, a lot just get pushed down by the system and how it's setup, our welfare system doesn't really help people get off it. A few more $$ a week would for a lot of people help them get off the welfare but most don't want to believe it.
Signing up for temporary work is a good choice during those times as I agree that if you're applying for work you're over qualified for it cause an issue for employers. Interestingly though the majority of these positions are labour intensive and are probably reducing every year.

Don't disagree that it needs to be raised but interested as to why you think increasing it would result in them getting off the payments? Not sure what "work for the dole" type programs there are but I feel it's an underutilised tool. Give people the opportunity to work two days a week on a program and flick them an extra $150 tax free a week or something.
 

Gralin

Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Posts
29,436
Likes
44,098
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
Admin #6,144
Gralin, you're very defensive about Newstart/the people who need it.

Genuinely curious as to why.
Yeah no problem.

This whole current thing started with someone complaining about a recommendation to raise the NewStart allowance by $75 a week. Elections are one of the times these topics come up as you will get advocacy groups raising the issues publicly while politicians have their campaign cheque books out.

It's not the first time $75 has been mentioned and it's part of a wider conversation about how we view the poor in Australia. And I know poor in Australia compared to say poor in Ethopia isn't the same thing.

In Australia you are classed as being below the poverty line based on your weekly earnings as a household compared to the median.

If you're single and earning $433 a week or less (22k per year) or family of four earning less that $909 per week (47k combined per year) you are in the bottom 10% and considered below the poverty line. This number doesn't take cost of housing into account either, it's just based on median income.

We've got 3.5 million people roughly below that line and the average gap between what they earn and the line is $135 per week meaning they are getting $298 a week on average (half the people are relying on welfare payments but almost 40% below the poverty line are employed they just don't make enough money)

Raising NewStart by $75 doesn't completely close the poverty gap but when you add in other factors like rental assistance it could get people to around the line.

https://www.acoss.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ACOSS_Poverty-in-Australia-Report_Web-Final.pdf

I don't know about you but I'd like to think that our welfare recipients weren't forced to live below the poverty line. They made massive inroads into poverty among the elderly by raising and indexing the pension but have refused to do the same with NewStart, while moving more people onto NewStart as the form of welfare they are eligible for. Including single parents which has exposed more kids to poverty.

The system isn't setup to help those who need it most, and the government likes to blame those who need it most for needing it.

We've got over 750,000 kids living below the poverty line, it's not their fault that they are there and the government who should be helping them isn't. It's just pointing the finger at their parents and saying get a better job, sorry kids no money for you.

The libs are campaigning on this platform, don't vote for labour or they will take your hard earned money and give it to the poor who are really to blame for their own situation so why should they be helped

Scott Morrison, suggested, “The harder you work, the better you do, good for you. I do not understand what the point would be of working hard under a Labor government. I really do not know. Why would you bother? Because the better you do, the harder you work, the more you put in, the more Bill Shorten puts his hand in your pocket.”
So the politicians say it's not their job to help end poverty, it's the poor people's job to do it all themselves. They say the only people that deserve hand outs from them are the people that pay them taxes, the more the better. So the more money you earn the more the government will help you with tax cuts and funding for your businesses and schools. But those poor people, nup they don't pay enough taxes so why should we help them or fund their schools.

It's backwards man. Give more money to the rich schools, give more income back to the rich people, that's not what the Government is meant to be about. They should be putting more money into the disadvantaged schools and communities because education is a great way to help lift people out of poverty and the money they invested in that would reduce the potential welfare bill in the future from those kids.

Paying people looking for work so little that they fall below the poverty line makes it so much harder for them to find work and break that cycle, it makes it harder for their kids to get a good education and do better for themselves.

But that isn't what the politicians in general say, it isn't what the papers say, they blame the poor for their situation and say work harder it's your fault not mine.

So now they not only have the Government shitting on them instead of doing their job, they have the rest of us shitting on them too because the Government told us it's ok to do it.

It's like casual racism, sexism, it's another form of bigotry.

Craven Morehead said some good things, cares about the kids in the situation which is great and something often ignored because everyone is so focused on the adults when talking about welfare because they are the ones who receive the payments.

You're not going to get them all out of poverty, some just won't get there, some won't want to get jobs, others won't be able to.

I take the view that I'd rather there were some people sponging an adequate life for themselves off the system as the price for getting all of the other people out of the hole. Because getting those people out will help keep their kids out.

You've got to break the cycle, I want to see the government putting policies in place that help lift people out of poverty, not push them further down into it.
 

edgie

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Posts
38,397
Likes
40,781
Location
The 'Yabba
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Chael Sonnen: Moral Champion
Let's just get the work for the dole program up again but pay them properly - a minimum legal full time wage, and cut the overpaid local council workers. Get them doing footpaths and parks, digging holes and fixing pipes, teach them to drive the garbage truck, then if they want to start earning more money, they can venture out to the private sector.
 

DaRick

Premiership Player
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Posts
3,770
Likes
2,279
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
(See avatar)
Its an interesting one all this newstart and cant get a job etc. Its a bit like people say they cant buy a house because of prices, there are houses, you will just have to move from where you live. Same with newstart, don't spend 70-80% of your newstart on rent, move out from the city more to where rent is cheaper if it is such a struggle.
Fine in principle, but show me an area with cheap rent and I'll show you an area with high unemployment rates.

Plus I'm pretty sure they cut your Newstart if you move to an area with weaker job prospects.

This is a bit besides the point, but plenty of people both work and receive Newstart.

Signing up for temporary work is a good choice during those times as I agree that if you're applying for work you're over qualified for it cause an issue for employers. Interestingly though the majority of these positions are labour intensive and are probably reducing every year.

Don't disagree that it needs to be raised but interested as to why you think increasing it would result in them getting off the payments? Not sure what "work for the dole" type programs there are but I feel it's an underutilised tool. Give people the opportunity to work two days a week on a program and flick them an extra $150 tax free a week or something.
The Business Council of Australia argue that Newstart is so low that it encourages welfare dependency because Newstart recipients can't actually afford to do much of anything, including going to interviews.

Ha-Joon Chang takes this argument further and contends that a stronger welfare state encourages welfare recipients to take more risks, like starting their own businesses, since they actually have some capital, rather than clinging on to every last cent. Sure, you always have your bludgers, but they're probably unemployable anyway.

A proper 'work for the dole' program could theoretically do good, but the one we have in place is generally useless because you often don't learn many marketable skills.
 
Last edited:

DaRick

Premiership Player
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Posts
3,770
Likes
2,279
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
(See avatar)
Let's just get the work for the dole program up again but pay them properly - a minimum legal full time wage, and cut the overpaid local council workers. Get them doing footpaths and parks, digging holes and fixing pipes, teach them to drive the garbage truck, then if they want to start earning more money, they can venture out to the private sector.
Sounds more like a job guarantee.
 

Craven Morehead

I really don't care what you think.
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Posts
2,222
Likes
2,887
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Let's just get the work for the dole program up again but pay them properly - a minimum legal full time wage, and cut the overpaid local council workers. Get them doing footpaths and parks, digging holes and fixing pipes, teach them to drive the garbage truck, then if they want to start earning more money, they can venture out to the private sector.
100% agree.
Work for the dole must be completely overhauled and re-implemented as a tool for people to receive skills which will have a meaningful impact on them gaining a job elsewhere.

‘Just move’ for a job or house is an easy thing to say. But in addition to the problems with moving farther and farther away from the city (jobs) centre pointed out, most people aren’t comfortable with just upping stocks and leaving their family and support networks behind. It’s not always a practical response.
Oh boo bloody hoo.
As stated before by craigos , people are soft nowadays.
If there is job that pays well, offers you security and gets you off the welfare cycle, you harden up and leave Mummy for Christs sake.
The world is a far smaller place than it was when we had recessions in the 70's, 80's and 90's, yet if times were tough and there was a good job elsewhere there was no hesitation in moving across the country to take it.
That's what you did to survive and make something of yourself.

Oh but Mum and my support network!
FMD.
 
Top Bottom