Resource THINGS NEED TO CHANGE!

TalkingFootyNow1223

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For too long have the Victorian football bosses made AFL a Victorian based sport. Now with the players trading clubs more than ever do we see the massive problem AFL has to face. We see a case of Vic clubs getting stronger and more players wanting to move to a potential to play in a grand final. I honestly have nothing wrong with a player thats served his time ie Ablett Jr and the GCS and wants to move on... But now we have rookies wanting to go home (Vic) this is rubbish where are the loyalties these days? The club you leave is the club that gave you the chance the club you go to over looked you to start with.. dont get me wrong this isn't an attack on you Victorians so dont take it personal its the vic government and high profile vic footy bosses that this is aimed at.
 

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Ned_Flanders

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For too long have the Victorian football bosses made AFL a Victorian based sport. Now with the players trading clubs more than ever do we see the massive problem AFL has to face. We see a case of Vic clubs getting stronger and more players wanting to move to a potential to play in a grand final. I honestly have nothing wrong with a player thats served his time ie Ablett Jr and the GCS and wants to move on... But now we have rookies wanting to go home (Vic) this is rubbish where are the loyalties these days? The club you leave is the club that gave you the chance the club you go to over looked you to start with.. dont get me wrong this isn't an attack on you Victorians so dont take it personal its the vic government and high profile vic footy bosses that this is aimed at.
What's your solution? You need to have players wanting to stay, reality is the aflpa will never allow extended rookie contracts
 

NoobPie

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For too long have the Victorian football bosses made AFL a Victorian based sport. Now with the players trading clubs more than ever do we see the massive problem AFL has to face. We see a case of Vic clubs getting stronger and more players wanting to move to a potential to play in a grand final. I honestly have nothing wrong with a player thats served his time ie Ablett Jr and the GCS and wants to move on... But now we have rookies wanting to go home (Vic) this is rubbish where are the loyalties these days? The club you leave is the club that gave you the chance the club you go to over looked you to start with.. dont get me wrong this isn't an attack on you Victorians so dont take it personal its the vic government and high profile vic footy bosses that this is aimed at.
Who are you talking about, Tim Kelly?
 

Kwality

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The club you leave is the club that gave you the chance the club you go to over looked you to start with..
Its a national comp, this is one* of the challenges for an administration rooted in the State League days - there is no appetite in Melbourne for change.
Needs real leadership to look outside the box & neither the current AFL Commission are up to it, nor are the administration led by Gil.

* most agree if we started again the national comp would be a different shape.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Its a national comp, this is one* of the challenges for an administration rooted in the State League days - there is no appetite in Melbourne for change.
Needs real leadership to look outside the box & neither the current AFL Commission are up to it, nor are the administration led by Gil.

* most agree if we started again the national comp would be a different shape.
This isn't a state vs state issue. Go home is a massive issue with wa kids in Melbourne (look at hill and kelly for example)

The issue is how do you stop a player going home if they want to. Binding them doesn't work, as we saw recently it just delays the move. Also the aflpa are trying to increase player choice, not restrain it.

I don't want Bolton returning to wa, but there is no way we can force him to stay here against his will
 

Elmer_Judd

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For too long have the Victorian football bosses made AFL a Victorian based sport. Now with the players trading clubs more than ever do we see the massive problem AFL has to face. We see a case of Vic clubs getting stronger and more players wanting to move to a potential to play in a grand final. I honestly have nothing wrong with a player thats served his time ie Ablett Jr and the GCS and wants to move on... But now we have rookies wanting to go home (Vic) this is rubbish where are the loyalties these days? The club you leave is the club that gave you the chance the club you go to over looked you to start with.. dont get me wrong this isn't an attack on you Victorians so dont take it personal its the vic government and high profile vic footy bosses that this is aimed at.
So it's Daniel Andrews fault that Tom Lynch chose Richmond ? 🥴🥴🥴🥴
 

Kwality

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This isn't a state vs state issue. Go home is a massive issue with wa kids in Melbourne (look at hill and kelly for example)

The issue is how do you stop a player going home if they want to. Binding them doesn't work, as we saw recently it just delays the move. Also the aflpa are trying to increase player choice, not restrain it.

I don't want Bolton returning to wa, but there is no way we can force him to stay here against his will
Yep, its an issue for the national comp.
 

Kwality

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But how would it not be an issue if we started as a national comp (as you claimed)?

This is about go home factor. Not vicco vfl conspiracy. A national comp from inception doesn't change the problem
My point being it'd be different if we started again.

You'd need a total revamp, think we all believe a home & away concept in its purest form (every season) would be a must.

A look at where the players come from would be a starting point to address the go home factor & its been there since day dot, but there are more Q & NSW players (cant remember seeing 2019 numbers) on lists than in the first 10 years of the national version of VFL. Our inability to allow Q & NSW academys free reign is shooting the national concept in the foot (IMHO).

Travel is a factor not faced in the State League era & you only have to look at Gold Coasts 2019 FIXture to see the FIX in all its glory.

There are so many facets that should be addressed. I feel for the OP, the frustration ...
 

Ned_Flanders

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My point being it'd be different if we started again.

You'd need a total revamp, think we all believe a home & away concept in its purest form (every season) would be a must.

A look at where the players come from would be a starting point to address the go home factor & its been there since day dot, but there are more Q & NSW players (cant remember seeing 2019 numbers) on lists than in the first 10 years of the national version of VFL. Our inability to allow Q & NSW academys free reign is shooting the national concept in the foot (IMHO).

Travel is a factor not faced in the State League era & you only have to look at Gold Coasts 2019 FIXture to see the FIX in all its glory.

There are so many facets that should be addressed. I feel for the OP, the frustration ...
It won't change the go home factor, just where they want to go home too (less southern states, more northern)

the issue is times have changed. Kids have minimal loyalty to a workplace these days (and fair enough given employers have fu** all to them), so it's no shock that's carried over to footy. Fighting it won't minimise the problem. Clubs either need to make themselves a more attractive place to come to, or accept a fluid list

again, this is a challenge companies are dealing with everywhere
 

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Johnny Bananas

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The issue is how do you stop a player going home if they want to.
How many kids are willing to do a Cam McCarthy and either sit out or drop to the state leagues if they refuse to play interstate? I'm in favour of a mandatory period in which players must either play for the AFL club they were drafted to, or go play state league until the period runs out.
 

Ned_Flanders

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How many kids are willing to do a Cam McCarthy and either sit out or drop to the state leagues if they refuse to play interstate? I'm in favour of a mandatory period in which players must either play for the AFL club they were drafted to, or go play state league until the period runs out.
They just wait a year. The big solution on offer is to extend the initial contract from 2-3 years. That won't change anything. Players will just wait it out and then move.

Go beyond that, I wouldn't be surprised if the aflpa get legal and try to break down the system to allow open slather
 

Kwality

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It won't change the go home factor, just where they want to go home too (less southern states, more northern)

the issue is times have changed. Kids have minimal loyalty to a workplace these days (and fair enough given employers have fu** all to them), so it's no shock that's carried over to footy. Fighting it won't minimise the problem. Clubs either need to make themselves a more attractive place to come to, or accept a fluid list

again, this is a challenge companies are dealing with everywhere
In my work experience its a minority of people transferring interstate that actually stay. Deaths are a real issue when you live away from home, remember Chance Bateman & Luke Shuey dealing with it.

My point about where the kids come from is to address the go home factor, & you'd need to make the traditional States take local kids somehow. The reality
of a pure home & away season would limit the numbers of teams to 12 or 13, smaller player pool, more competition for spots, less opportunity for player managers to game the situation/clubs.
 

TalkingFootyNow1223

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Its going to come to the point that it will be state vs state minus the gurnseys. A lot has changed in the last decade but only a small percentage has been for the positive (AFLW) but even then they are given the bare basics to establish as an official AFL brand but there is no help yo expand it or a pay increase so the players can spend their time developing there skills rather than working 9 till 5 jobs. Qld bare basics to establish at one early point had to merge to stop the fold, they bring in a new club so the lions now fight for the home grown rookies that are at minimal pickings being a rugby based state. Nsw had sydney but the cost of living was ridiculous so there were a lot of moves based on that they did bting the cost of living wage up there but then brought in GWS so the fight for home grown rookies in another rugby based state becomes minimal again. Wa has 2 teams both formed a very stable club but still to this day minus a few exceptions of the eagles due to being recent prems still lose a good chunck of players wanting to move to Vic clubs. And Sa we try our best to stake a claim at the AFL dynasty but with the in house battles and rivalry we lose a huge portion too and when we do have home grown tallents come in they are picked up by interstate clubs. A good example is port and suns head to china Vic thought it was stupid wasn't going to work, becomes a massive injection of future expansions and financial benefits Vic government and AFL bosses kick up a stick and want their hands in the jar too.. they pull the Suns out which they only stuck in there to stop port growing relations as the Suns colours and team name represent Chinas national colours and flag but they pull the Suns out and stick Saints in to grow relations with Vic. Sorry for the rant guys just hate sitting back and watching other states footy potential be smashed into a billion pieces
 

Johnny Bananas

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they pull the Suns out which they only stuck in there to stop port growing relations as the Suns colours and team name represent Chinas national colours and flag but they pull the Suns out and stick Saints in to grow relations with Vic.
I agree with you on the disadvantages the non-Victorians in general and northern states in particular are facing. But I think you'll find that it was the Suns who didn't want to continue playing in China, since they were selling a home game and putting extra strain on their already struggling team. And the Saints took over since they need the money and NZ didn't work out.
 

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The VFL was always the foundation the national league needed to build off. The problem lies with the VFL administrators in the 80’s for not making the tough decisions on some of there clubs. Clubs like St.Kilda, Melbourne, North and Fitzroy should of either been move back to VFA or relocated.

St.kilda for example from 1977-1986 45 Wins 5 Draws 170 Losses 6 wooden spoons.

Melbourne: 61 Wins 159 Losses 2 wooden spoons. 1965-1986 0 finals appearances.

If these clubs couldn’t cut it in a 12 team state league, what made anyone think they could compete in a national league?

10 teams from one state has enabled this imbalance in allowing victorian clubs to attract players back to there state due to the ambundance of them and not just players but assistant coaches as well.
 
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Ned_Flanders

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In my work experience its a minority of people transferring interstate that actually stay. Deaths are a real issue when you live away from home, remember Chance Bateman & Luke Shuey dealing with it.

My point about where the kids come from is to address the go home factor, & you'd need to make the traditional States take local kids somehow. The reality
of a pure home & away season would limit the numbers of teams to 12 or 13, smaller player pool, more competition for spots, less opportunity for player managers to game the situation/clubs.
That assumes it's a north south issue however. Reality is we have go home factor between wa and Vic (both ways)

Clubs need to be much smarter about this
 

Johnny Bananas

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We should note Queensland clubs have already been adapting as best they can to this issue by recruiting a lot of players from Vic Country (Brisbane) and SA (Gold Coast) and drafting fewer players from Vic Metro and WA, unless they're quite clearly the best talent available (Rayner, King, probably Rowell). The go home factor is lower in these areas, although they're not immune, as Schache and Polec have proven.
 

Kwality

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We should note Queensland clubs have already been adapting as best they can to this issue by recruiting a lot of players from Vic Country (Brisbane) and SA (Gold Coast) and drafting fewer players from Vic Metro and WA, unless they're quite clearly the best talent available (Rayner, King, probably Rowell). The go home factor is lower in these areas, although they're not immune, as Schache and Polec have proven.
or are they just picking best available?
 

Elmer_Judd

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Not a 'big name star' but still a decent FA signing on with the most lowly team in The AFL, which happens to be Gold Coast.

Also, it has to be said, many of the current problems at the SA Clubs, are self-inflicted wounds, and nothing to do with being a non Victorian team.
 

Roylion

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The VFL was always the foundation the national league needed to build off. The problem lies with the VFL administrators in the 80’s for not making the tough decisions on some of there clubs. Clubs like St.Kilda, Melbourne, North and Fitzroy should of either been move back to VFA or relocated.
And how were the VFL administrators going to bring that about when it was essentially the clubs that controlled the structure of the competition? Any change involved the agreement of the majority of the competing clubs. West Coast for example needed eight of the 12 clubs at the time to agree to their admittance.
 

TalkingFootyNow1223

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Not a 'big name star' but still a decent FA signing on with the most lowly team in The AFL, which happens to be Gold Coast.

Also, it has to be said, many of the current problems at the SA Clubs, are self-inflicted wounds, and nothing to do with being a non Victorian team.
Sure there is the odd one that throws a wrench in the gears but in the same frame what are GC offering him was the Tigers going to move him on anyways? Things like that play a part as the saying goes money talks and bullshit walks
 

Kwality

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And how were the VFL administrators going to bring that about when it was essentially the clubs that controlled the structure of the competition? Any change involved the agreement of the majority of the competing clubs. West Coast for example needed eight of the 12 clubs at the time to agree to their admittance.
Agree with you BUT the Elliot/Seddon proposal of 1984 involved cutting Melbourne clubs & did not include a WA side - was big Jack ahead of his time or or just looking after a recruiting shop on the cheap (as Tas had been for the VFL).
The haste at the end of 1986 is evidence of the level of planning involved in what has morphed into the AFL, a real bitsa.
 

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