Things that matter when the ALP are in government.

[Gough]

Deficit Spending (GFC recovery), pork barrelling (Roz Kelly), leadership instability (Rudd Gillard/Rudd), corruption (Craig Thomson), none of these things seem to matter now, I wonder why that is? Please feel free to add your own.

 

[Caesar]

Hopefully the ALP are asking themselves these questions. It takes a fairly incompetent opposition to make the electorate overlook such glaring problems in a government.

 

[undefined]

Hopefully the ALP are asking themselves these questions. It takes a fairly incompetent opposition to make the electorate overlook such glaring problems in a government.

Ever heard of this crazy new thing called 'media bias'?

 

[Taylor]

I think the general public are having their available space for politicians taken up by their state premiers on account of the unique circumstances.

It's been in interest of the states to have the Eye of Sauron on the federal government, especially when it's finding things to be upset over - they look very good by comparison since nobody had heard a thing from them.

Now that situation has reversed, it's good for the states to be in the middle of the shot so they take that space - and it's convenient for the federal government to stay quiet in the corner.

 

[Caesar]

Ever heard of this crazy new thing called 'media bias'?

Firstly, the electoral impact of media bias is vastly overrated.

Secondly, there's no real reason why the ALP can't get the media on their side. Murdoch has no political principles, and over the last 50+ years he has happily switched his support back and forth between whichever major party has been best for his business.

 

[Not Important]

Deficit Spending (GFC recovery), pork barrelling (Roz Kelly), leadership instability (Rudd Gillard/Rudd), corruption (Craig Thomson), none of these things seem to matter now, I wonder why that is? Please feel free to add your own.

have a gander at the deficit spending of the conservatives. and the wastefulness. it's a conservative con to suggest the feds are anymore responsible with taxpayers dollars than labor is. both have been wasteful. altho reading the murdochracy you'd be forgiven for concluding it's only one side of politics.

 

[Taylor]

I think both the parties sit to the left on center when it comes to spending because they know the electorate has zero appetite for new taxes or less services, especially when the opposition would hammer over that.

They can debate whether big cash injections into JB Hifi spending or into construction amounts to a difference long term, but it's the same extra debt to build up short term.

 

[TheMase]

Firstly, the electoral impact of media bias is vastly overrated.

Not convinced on that. Most people get their information from the mainstream media so it stands to reason that it has an influence over people.

Selling $3m of land for $30m to their mates would have been the headline story around the country had it been Labor and on every ring wing talk back show nation wide. Or the $80m water rights that involved Angus Taylor. Or the opening of Christmas Island for a political stunt (at a cost of $185m). But no, the important stories are the government going after the CEO of Australia Post for giving some executives some watches which in comparison are worth a pittance.

A mate of mine the other day suggested one of the reasons he didn’t vote Labor was the death tax that they were planning on bringing in... only for me to remind him for the third time that this policy did not exist and he had been hoodwinked.

 

[sherb]

Ah yes, the good old days of the "Debt & Deficit Disaster".

 

[Caesar]

Not convinced on that. Most people get their information from the mainstream media so it stands to reason that it has an influence over people.

Selling $3m of land for $30m to their mates would have been the headline story around the country had it been Labor and on every ring wing talk back show nation wide. Or the $80m water rights that involved Angus Taylor. Or the opening of Christmas Island for a political stunt (at a cost of $185m). But no, the important stories are the government going after the CEO of Australia Post for giving some executives some watches which in comparison are worth a pittance.

A mate of mine the other day suggested one of the reasons he didn’t vote Labor was the death tax that they were planning on bringing in... only for me to remind him for the third time that this policy did not exist and he had been hoodwinked.

Polling on issues consistently shows that the things that affect people’s votes are not the things that tabloid news media focus on.

Voters in key NSW and Qld seats rejected Labor at the last election because of franking credits and Adani. Merits of the policies aside, those aren’t issues that were driven by the media - they were just aspects of the ALP’s platform.

No doubt that having the media against you doesn’t help, but I think it is often used by Labor as a scapegoat. It’s an easy way to rationalise defeat in a way that sidesteps any need for introspection.

 

[Borisdog]

Regards the influence of “Main stream media”.

I wonder what percentage of the population actually watches or reads the “MSM”

Almost no-one in my acquaintance does, the general feeling is they’re sick of being told their opinion. The lesser lights aren’t any better IMO.

I‘d be way, WAY more concerned about the influence that the cesspit of Social Media can, and does, have.

Honestly, a good bombardment of disinformation on most social media cesspits would have a solid percentage of the populace; a) Believing it , and b) Repeating it ad nauseum as fact.

As far as what matters when the ALP is in government - not much, same as when this mob are in. Life will move on for most of us and if you’re one of those who believe the government is to blame for your troubles then I suspect a mirror will help more than a change of Government.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Deficit Spending (GFC recovery), pork barrelling (Roz Kelly), leadership instability (Rudd Gillard/Rudd), corruption (Craig Thomson), none of these things seem to matter now, I wonder why that is? Please feel free to add your own.

Screwing up cost estimates (Frydenberg and JobKeeper).

 

[kranky al]

Firstly, the electoral impact of media bias is vastly overrated.

Secondly, there's no real reason why the ALP can't get the media on their side. Murdoch has no political principles, and over the last 50+ years he has happily switched his support back and forth between whichever major party has been best for his business.

Really?

so just do whatever rupert wants and stay in power?

Id suggest a real reason would be that society needs things rupert doesnt want

 

[Caesar]

so just do whatever rupert wants and stay in power?

Not exactly what I said

But Hawke and Keating did well out of giving concessions to the media sector during the 80s

 

[E Shed]

More and more what we're seeing is what Trump proved in the US. Most of the accountability in Government comes from people respecting tradition and responsibility in public office.

If they just refuse to back down when caught lying or doing something corrupt, there really isn't any way to hold politicians to account.
Look at sports rorts. Caught red handed Morrison simply lied about it. Everyone knew he was lying but at the end of the day if he refuses to admit any wrongdoing, without an overarching mechanism like a corruption commission with actual teeth he gets away with it.

Its the new normal, freedom of information requests are now treated with contempt. More and more public service is outsourced so it comes under commercial in confidence. Trump proved it. You can essentially do what you want now and everyone knows it.
The system is broken and the only people that have the power to change it won't.

 

[kranky al]

More and more what we're seeing is what Trump proved in the US. Most of the accountability in Government comes from people respecting tradition and responsibility in public office.

If they just refuse to back down when caught lying or doing something corrupt, there really isn't any way to hold politicians to account.
Look at sports rorts. Caught red handed Morrison simply lied about it. Everyone knew he was lying but at the end of the day if he refuses to admit any wrongdoing, without an overarching mechanism like a corruption commission with actual teeth he gets away with it.

Its the new normal, freedom of information requests are now treated with contempt. More and more public service is outsourced so it comes under commercial in confidence. Trump proved it. You can essentially do what you want now and everyone knows it.
The system is broken and the only people that have the power to change it won't.

We have the power to change it with our voices and votes

we just dont

 

[Gethelred]

I think the general public are having their available space for politicians taken up by their state premiers on account of the unique circumstances.

It's been in interest of the states to have the Eye of Sauron on the federal government, especially when it's finding things to be upset over - they look very good by comparison since nobody had heard a thing from them.

Now that situation has reversed, it's good for the states to be in the middle of the shot so they take that space - and it's convenient for the federal government to stay quiet in the corner.

Considering that I give you a lot of s**t, this is a good post.

 

[Gethelred]

Firstly, the electoral impact of media bias is vastly overrated.

I'd be interested to know how we can know that as fact, Caesar.

Secondly, there's no real reason why the ALP can't get the media on their side. Murdoch has no political principles, and over the last 50+ years he has happily switched his support back and forth between whichever major party has been best for his business.

I agree that Murdoch is - largely - mercenary in terms of where his support goes, but to say he has no principles is a little disingenuous.

When he supports Labor/the Tories, it's because it's New Labour and Tony Blair's neoconservatism and outright Murdoch cronyism; when he supports Kevin Rudd it's because he was actively courted by Rudd until he won office and refused to kowtow anymore.

 

[Caesar]

I'd be interested to know how we can know that as fact, Caesar.

There’s never been anything to show that swings to or away from one side are correlated with things like the strength of Murdoch’s market presence.

I’m not saying it has zero impact but I don’t see any evidence that it swings elections to the extent people like to pretend.

When he supports Labor/the Tories, it's because it's New Labour and Tony Blair's neoconservatism and outright Murdoch cronyism

He also supported Hawke and Whitlam and I’d hardly describe the latter as a necon

I don’t see any ideological consistency in Murdoch’s history beyond what is good for his own business at any particular point in time

 

[Gethelred]

He also supported Hawke and Whitlam and I’d hardly describe the latter as a necon

I don’t see any ideological consistency in Murdoch’s history beyond what is good for his own business at any particular point in time

Self interest is Murdoch's ideological consistency. He wrote what would sell papers and allowed leaders to court him from both sides to see what he can get. That is his genius; by not completely getting a single party completely offside, he continues to be courted and his establishment role goes unquestioned and unopposed by those with the power to change it.

However...

You cannot say, given the wilderness left wing politics has found itself in in all countries Murdoch holds a significant share of the media over time, that he lacks ideological bent. Look at the completely un-left wing New Labour, look at his support of Hawke and Keating's neoliberalism, look at the moderate right of the Democrats; in each country, Murdoch has undermined socialist policies, politicians and parties.

He's neoliberal, which is to say that he's self interested. That in itself is a political bent.

 

[Caesar]

I just don’t understand how you can claim someone who has backed PMs as diverse as Whitlam and Abbott has any kind of ideological consistency

Supporting Hawke and Keating is hardly the move of a neoliberal when you look at some of the Coalition leaders from the 80s

 

[Gough]

I just don’t understand how you can claim someone who has backed PMs as diverse as Whitlam and Abbott has any kind of ideological consistency

Supporting Hawke and Keating is hardly the move of a neoliberal when you look at some of the Coalition leaders from the 80s

Because he's now a dyed in the wool conservative in his dotage and conservative parties worldwide bend over backwards to accomodate his whims to gain his favour and patronage.

 

[The Passenger]

Screwing up cost estimates (Frydenberg and JobKeeper).

Botched initiatives leading to deaths (Pink batts v robodebt)

 

[Blue Arrow]

 

[Caesar]

Botched initiatives leading to deaths (Pink batts v robodebt)

I mean, they’re not really comparable

One is based on coronial findings and the other is based on anecdotes from families of a couple of suicide victims