Things we learnt tonight......

[Axl the great]

Thomas was probably best on ground for Pies my friend, a lazy conclusion based on silly caricatures about Thomas.

Yeah spot on, Thomas played ok for mine tonight but to have a general view hes not worth the no2 pick based on one game is moronic, Thomas is not up there with Judd Ablett etc but he has a real crack each week and some fans have real short memories regarding how important he is over a full season.

 

[Tonycam*]

Know you dont want to hear from us right now , but chin up guys, you really have a lot to look forward to this year. I have no doubt you will be top 4 this year maybe even top two with some luck. All the best for the season

 

[ButchEd8]

Get the F out

i garner you worked it out

Si

 

[Bonuspoints]

Thoughts on the game:
Geelong should have smashed us by far more than what they did and it was not because of us that they didn't smash us by more...it was their goal kicking

When your team loses like this beer is essential

Some of our decision making was just plain dumb

A good defender will shut anthony down, but if he cops it all year he will persist and I believe he will adapt.

Is Dawes the invisible man? Barely sighted was he subbed?
we have no taggers in our side. Wellingham plays too loose, cook is not up to it, toovey is slow, where do we turn to?

We need fraser. Even if you hate him you have to admit it.

Umpire's hate maxwell

If harry taylor is not in your dreamtime put him in now

Our skills when not under pressure have increased significantly, under pressure however not so much

Beams is ahead of Sidebottom and I believe he will play round 1. Beams looks comfortable enough at AFL level to have an impact at this level for 09. Definitely a quality pick up.

Despite his preseason injuries Medhurst is going to pick up where he left off. There were very little ball up forward but despite being rusty he looked lively and created opportunities

Bryan is a long way ahead of Wood at this stage? Dunno? Both made some blunders, if you took them out Bryan is ahead, but Bryan made more? I think the coaches would see Bryan ahead of Wood.

Bruce is still a sh1t commentator

Toovey is not as bad as we all like to make out. He wasn't our best, but he wasn't our worst. Did some good things tonight.

Bartel the 09 version looks like a bulked up emo peter parker. Think back to Spiderman 3 and you know it is true.

Umpires will annoy everyone by giving free kicks that are although correct by the letter of the law are extremely soft.

Reid is going to get exposed in the backline and screw up, but is not going to be absolutely horrible

O'brien and Shaw are a big out for us

Geelong are determined to wreak havoc on everyone for losing the GF in 08.

For a game that is concerned about more handballs than kicks, making the kick have to travel 20m for a mark to be taken does not help.

Thomas worked hard to find the footy. I thought he played well given we were being dominated by the Cats.

You should turn your phone off when you're a Collingwood fan and they are losing like this.

Everyone screwed up tonight. From the fringe players to the core players. Clarke, Cox, Bryan, etc. A lot of dumb decisions and poor skill execution.

Cucumber tastes better pickled.

 

[Old Spice]

One thing I am Certain with in the next 50 years! Collingwood will contest 35 final series, be minor premiers 7 times will compete in 10 Grand finals for 0 premierships!

This will be fact mark it down! Its just the Culture of our Club. Like Richmond always finishing 9th and St.kilda with a lot of talented players always finding a way to not make the Grand Final!

I love Collingwood and will always follow Collingwood but when we make Grand Finals all our players go to water! That is Just our Culture and I cannot see it being changed in my lifetime and I'm only 27 years old!

A bleak response, but I did say on another forum some time ago we need a good sports psychologist at the club (and obviously good playing group which is primary).

Teams like Carlton and Hawthorn have a swagger because when they get to GFs they tend to convert most times. Collingwood though can never escape it's history and pariah status, so we need to find a way to harness it and just go out to kill, or not care, and nothing in between.

 

[DoubleO7]

Reid was alright in defence IMO.

We need a tagger badly. Selwood destroyed us yet it took until the fourth quarter for the coaches to see this. Maxwell went to him I think?

Thomas was good.

J Anthony had no supply from the midfield so don't blame him for not kicking any goals.


Our rucks are woeful. Bryans inability to tap the ball to advatange is not a pretty site.

Our midfielders are woeful.

Our defence is ok.

Geelong are terrible when it comes to set shots at goal. We should have been beaten by 100 IMHO.

It's only a pre season game so no need to get emotional about it. We will improve, I know it.

 

[gopies1981]

A bleak response, but I did say on another forum some time ago we need a good sports psychologist at the club (and obviously good playing group which is primary).

Teams like Carlton and Hawthorn have a swagger because when they get to GFs they tend to convert most times. Collingwood though can never escape it's history and pariah status, so we need to find a way to harness it and just go out to kill, or not care, and nothing in between.

I believe we are on the way to getting a great side but for some reason when players put on the Black and White Jumper on Grand Final Day they Just Freeze when a lot of pressure is put on them.

I don't know if it is pressure's from within the Club or from our Huge Supporter base to win a premiership (even nab premierships) but the players just cannot handle the pressure and every player that play's for Collingwood knows the history of the Colliwobbles! we must do something as a club or we will continue to see Collingwood loose another 10 Grand finals in the next 50 years!

 

[Ant85]

It's only a pre season game so no need to get emotional about it. We will improve, I know it.

We will improve, we just won't win a premiership this year.

I don't know why Eddie had to open his big mouth and put the spotlight on us. Maybe to boost membership?

We're clearly not ready. We're up and about, we're addressing some of our issues, but it will take more than a good pre-season for our young group to gel together, mature, get some experience and really hit hard.

And we've always known about our ruck/midfield problem. Why is everyone so surprised and disappointed by tonight's performance? I think some of you fell for the media's "Collingwood hype".

End of last year, I predicted we'd finish 6 - 10th in 2009. After a good pre-season, I've moved that up to 3rd - 8th, and it still stands.

 

[couchy555]

I thought tonite that when geelong got on top in the second quarter it was due to our ruckman just palming it down to the midfielders way to easy. So ull definately need fraser to have a big year and another ruckman to stand up, because its an area other teams will try and exploit you with.

I also think too you had a bad night, so i wouldnt worry too much.

 

[Pedro]

Its hard not to be too negative after a performance like that, but what tonight showed was that Geelong are still the big boys. Kids like Wellingham and McCarthy are just not up to scratch when it comes to competing with quality players. And I only use them as examples. There are plenty of others that fit the bill.

As soon as Geelong put the foot down, we wilted. Badly. Even when we got the ball in space we were unsure of what to do with it. They just bullied us out of it tonight.

The only real positive I got out of tonight was watching Tom Hawkins. And I thought Ben Reid couldn't kick

 

[jerry springer]

things we learnt tonite

Collingwood cannot win grand finals

 

[smiddaz123]

I wish the F/S rule had been introduced a year earlier.

Selwood would've been in the black and white colours tonight if that happened.

 

[Vegas.]

That Beams fella goes alright. Incredibly hard at it - to the point that he earned a bit of a pat on the back from Darren Milburn after one contest they had in your forward 50 - and then snagged that goal directly after that play. Has a fair bit of 'it', and I do quite enjoy the tatts.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Saw the pat from Milburn, it was a good sign and good sportsmanship on Dasher's part.

 

[Blade of Chronic]

• Bryan was alright but you have to say he is WAY better than Cameron Wood. I can't really say on how good Cameron Wood in previous years but from what I've seen he is crap.
• You can't really blame any of our forwards. We hardly got the ball inside the 50.
• We lost our intensity and pressure in the 2nd quarter. Somehow the team needs to be able to apply that pressure even when 20 points down.
• Yes, Umpires REALLY hate Maxwell. And also, I thought the umpiring today was absolutely horrible. But I may be wrong.
• I still think John Anthony is in our best 22.
• We NEED a DECENT tagger. Do we have any? Could someone please tell me our ''taggers''.
• To me, Cox was horrible. Very bad kicking.
• Didn't see Ben Reid that much in the match =\
• We need to be able to handle the pressure better. Think more clearly and bloody hell stop giving the ball away to Gary Ablett. ANYONE BUT HIM!!!!
• And wtf is with us this ''cultural'' bull****!? So are you thinking that there is no way we can change the way we play in finals? You are obviously a weak b*tch. Please leave.

 

[DoubleO7]

Is that after Beams got crunched in the left forward pocket/half in the Coventry end?

 

[Vegas.]

Saw the pat from Milburn, it was a good sign and good sportsmanship on Dasher's part.

Never, he's a filthy sniper!

 

[The 10th Letter]

Chasing tackling hard running not enough for you?

An old geelong supporter near me and you would get along real well

I'm with you Optimax, I thought Thomas was one of very few who could hold his head up.

Sticking to the thread, here's my two cents:

• As mentioned, the midfield is still a problem and is likely to remain as such for a while yet. We're obviously suffering due to a lack of quality ruck stocks and a genuine extractor. We've been shown some promising glimpses by Beams and Sidebottom, but it'll take a bit of time before they can influence anything in the middle.
• Defensively and judging by form, Toovey has Cox and Goldsack covered at this point in the season. I confess that I didn't rate Toovey heading into this year, but I was proud of his efforts tonight.
• I wouldn't be opposed to Cox also getting the nod for round one, I don't think he disgraced himself tonight despite a few clangers (he wasn't alone) and he's had a very good pre-season so far.
• We need to settle on a game plan or improve the communication and understanding of our setup during play, as we seemed to be confused as to what the strategy was for a large portion of tonight's game. We seemed to drift from man-on-man to minding space with no semblance of organisation. As a result, Geelong managed to move the ball freely and find players in space inside 50 at will, whilst we simply looked pedestrian.
• It's been mentioned ad nauseam, but we simply can't relinquish the corridor as freely as we do. The Cats were lining up throughout the middle of the ground all night long.
• Dawes and McCarthy should start in the VFL and find some form. Dawes looks lost at senior level currently, whilst in McCarthy's case it's just a matter of being underdone.
• I thought Wellingham had a dip tonight, particularly early on. His game reminded me somewhat of Barham's last week in that the application was there but he was unlucky at points and outclassed by more seasoned and talented opposition. Don't think Sharrod deserves a start round one, but we do need to decide what sort of player we want him to be and mould him as such.
• Despite not having much of it, Beams gave us further reason to be comfortable with his selection -- although they came in the form of intangibles tonight as opposed to statistical results. His efforts in those two pieces of play in the third were inspirational, despite being inconsequential overall.

Finally for now, we were just given something of a reality check. I think a lot of people read too much into our victory against Geelong last year and whilst I do feel that we match up well against the Cats when we're switched on, they are still clearly a class above at this stage.

If anything, we've just had weaknesses that we were already well aware of highlighted by quality opposition. Hopefully we can address some of these issues throughout the season, or at least look to be on the road to overcoming them.

Whilst having some perspective beaten into us tonight, my excitement for the upcoming season hasn't been dampened and I hope the lads take this in stride.

 

[thatday]

I thought Cloke played well, would have been better if he could have kicked some goals. Collingwood will not be successful this year if we play the style we played tonight. Quite simply we are just not able to play it, we are best at man-on-man football. We did not have enough intensity and the Geelong players just ran rings around us, they had loose players everywhere and their disposal was so much better it was embarrassing.

I think we played really badly tonight, Collingwood is alot better than that, we can't take much out of the game due to the nature of the nab cup. I do hope that we learnt we can't play against the best teams in the league in the manner we did tonight, because we will get smashed every day of the week if we do.

Also, i've noticed that our players all seem to go missing at once. Tonight, Daisy, Beams, Cloke and Toovey were the only ones that I would say were consistantly 'up'. And regular posters know how much it pains me to not mention Pendlebury or Didak in that list.

P.S, I also learnt that the knob head sitting behind me was a tosser of the highest order. Although the things he said about Ben Johnson were comical.

 

[kevind]

I thought Cloke played well, would have been better if he could have kicked some goals. Collingwood will not be successful this year if we play the style we played tonight. Quite simply we are just not able to play it, we are best at man-on-man football. We did not have enough intensity and the Geelong players just ran rings around us, they had loose players everywhere and their disposal was so much better it was embarrassing.

I think we played really badly tonight, Collingwood is alot better than that, we can't take much out of the game due to the nature of the nab cup. I do hope that we learnt we can't play against the best teams in the league in the manner we did tonight, because we will get smashed every day of the week if we do.

Also, i've noticed that our players all seem to go missing at once. Tonight, Daisy, Beams, Cloke and Toovey were the only ones that I would say were consistantly 'up'. And regular posters know how much it pains me to not mention Pendlebury or Didak in that list.

P.S, I also learnt that the knob head sitting behind me was a tosser of the highest order. Although the things he said about Ben Johnson were comical.

With regards to Cloke, I think he fails to win enough of the ball in the hot spots on the forward line. This may have something to do with our 'around the boundary line', slow entry into the forward 50, but he will struggle to be effective as a KF from the positions on the ground where he gets his possessions. Although judging any forward after tonight's game is well nigh impossible after the debacle in the ruck and midfield.

With regards to Didak and Leon Davis, I don't know if I will ever be confident with the prospect of these 2 guys standing up when it counts. Leon in particular has a dreadful performance history in GFs.

 

[Ant85]

I'm with you Optimax, I thought Thomas was one of very few who could hold his head up.

Sticking to the thread, here's my two cents:

• As mentioned, the midfield is still a problem and is likely to remain as such for a while yet. We're obviously suffering due to a lack of quality ruck stocks and a genuine extractor. We've been shown some promising glimpses by Beams and Sidebottom, but it'll take a bit of time before they can influence anything in the middle.
• Defensively and judging by form, Toovey has Cox and Goldsack covered at this point in the season. I confess that I didn't rate Toovey heading into this year, but I was proud of his efforts tonight.
• I wouldn't be opposed to Cox also getting the nod for round one, I don't think he disgraced himself tonight despite a few clangers (he wasn't alone) and he's had a very good pre-season so far.
• We need to settle on a game plan or improve the communication and understanding of our setup during play, as we seemed to be confused as to what the strategy was for a large portion of tonight's game. We seemed to drift from man-on-man to minding space with no semblance of organisation. As a result, Geelong managed to move the ball freely and find players in space inside 50 at will, whilst we simply looked pedestrian.
• It's been mentioned ad nauseam, but we simply can't relinquish the corridor as freely as we do. The Cats were lining up throughout the middle of the ground all night long.
• Dawes and McCarthy should start in the VFL and find some form. Dawes looks lost at senior level currently, whilst in McCarthy's case it's just a matter of being underdone.
• I thought Wellingham had a dip tonight, particularly early on. His game reminded me somewhat of Barham's last week in that the application was there but he was unlucky at points and outclassed by more seasoned and talented opposition. Don't think Sharrod deserves a start round one, but we do need to decide what sort of player we want him to be and mould him as such.
• Despite not having much of it, Beams gave us further reason to be comfortable with his selection -- although they came in the form of intangibles tonight as opposed to statistical results. His efforts in those two pieces of play in the third were inspirational, despite being inconsequential overall.

Finally for now, we were just given something of a reality check. I think a lot of people read too much into our victory against Geelong last year and whilst I do feel that we match up well against the Cats when we're switched on, they are still clearly a class above at this stage.

If anything, we've just had weaknesses that we were already well aware of highlighted by quality opposition. Hopefully we can address some of these issues throughout the season, or at least look to be on the road to overcoming them.

Whilst having some perspective beaten into us tonight, my excitement for the upcoming season hasn't been dampened and I hope the lads take this in stride.

Best summary I've read in this thread so far. Good stuff.

One recurring problem - which was again a highlight tonight - is that as soon as sides gather momentum and apply the pressure on us, we simply fall apart and wither away.

Is this a psychological issue? How can we stem this?

 

[Alexander323bc]

Best summary I've read in this thread so far. Good stuff.

One recurring problem - which was again a highlight tonight - is that as soon as sides gather momentum and apply the pressure on us, we simply fall apart and wither away.

Is this a psychological issue? How can we stem this?

A very good point. Why is it that we always crumble in a GF? We should not have any scars from 2002,2003 as only a few left from that team.

Maybe what we have learnt from today is that Brad Scott is a long way off from being a head coach!

 

[smiddaz123]

It doesn't help that we have been FAR inferior to our opposition in pretty much every facet of the game.

Let's face it, in the grand finals we've played in this decade, on paper, our team has been easily the worse one on paper.

 

[The 10th Letter]

Best summary I've read in this thread so far. Good stuff.

One recurring problem - which was again a highlight tonight - is that as soon as sides gather momentum and apply the pressure on us, we simply fall apart and wither away.

Is this a psychological issue? How can we stem this?

This is an interesting point and one worth discussing. To the best of my memory, I think the final against Adelaide last year was the only time I remember us pegging back a decent lead and coming out victorious. At the time, that was the best thing to come out of that match in my opinion.

I don't know whether it's a psychological thing (which I wouldn't rule out) or a by-product of our game plan and the way we are drilled. I've never considered our game plan to be pro-active; instead we tend to stick to our strategy militantly even when it is clearly coming unstuck.

I think this well-drilled, minimise risk at all costs style of play is a large part of why we don't bury sides when we gain the upper hand, as well as the reason why we find it difficult - if not impossible - to chase down the opposition when the momentum has shifted.

The game plan has been discussed a lot over recent seasons and in identifying it as a possible reason for our inability to stem the flow and even turn the tide, I would add that the game plan has served us well in many other situations as well.

Regardless, I don't think it would have mattered tonight, we were simply outplayed.

 

[kevind]

A very good point. Why is it that we always crumble in a GF? We should not have any scars from 2002,2003 as only a few left from that team.

Maybe what we have learnt from today is that Brad Scott is a long way off from being a head coach!

We always crumble because we expect ordinary players to somehow come out on top. They just never do. Class rises to the top on these occassions(tonight it was Selwood and Ablett). With the ordinary ruck setup and ordinary midfield we have, we will always be exposed in matches such as the 2009 NAB Cup GF.

It is all down to recruiting. Our recruiting has picked up dramatically since 2005, but before that time, it was dreadful. It has ,IMO, been Eddie McGuire's greatest failing. It took 6 years into his presidency to remedy this situation. And it may take another 4 or 5 years of good drafting to get us into a position to win a GF.

We also need some blind faith that in 4-5 years time , the group of players led by Pendleberry, Thomas, Sidebottom, Beams, McCarthy, Brown, Reid, Dawes and Anthony will all be in their prime.

This year, thanks to the AFL, we have a very easy draw, so we should make the finals but if we meet Geelong or Hawthorn then expect a repeat of the NAB Cup GF.