think about it...

[4thchicken]

What we should be looking at is B.Goddard and with the saints very tight constraints (in fact currently being over the cap),

Source on saints being over the cap?

 

[zeeCFC]

Source on saints being over the cap?

The Saints themselves!

 

[4thchicken]

The Saints themselves!

Thats why I asked - hadn't seen anything along those lines. Closest might be

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/saints-at-a-loss-20110920-1kjlg.html

While the club embarks on a late-season search for a new senior coach, it is doing so in the knowledge it faces major salary-cap issues next season. Stretched to the limit at 100 per cent, it seems inevitable that with rebuilding will come collateral damage.


would have thought there would be more media if the saints were over the cap? (presumably you refer to 2012 and not this season)

 

[The_Wookie]

hampson will be the man in 2012. mark my words.

 

[The_JUDDERNAUT]

I did say to pick up Galea. Kicked 4 goals in a row (for both teams) to help Port Melbourne get back in front after being 27 down.

The biggest small forward I've personally seen.

Galea? Really??

Ive seen alot of port this year and have come to the conclusion that he would regularly go touchless at AFL level. He's slow, short and you would struggle to find a footballer less keen to apply defensive pressure.

Not to mention that twice yesterday he lost his cool at Mcgrath for taking a set shot from 50 rather than kicking to him one out in the square, we don't need another loose cannon FF.

That said you have to give him credit for being a good VFL player, but he would be found out massively in the big time.

 

[cookie monster]

Over the pre-season it should be like this for hampson. They should just be working on his marking and kicking at goal. Just keep working it over till it improves. Its pretty simple, get your hands on it and put it through the two big sticks, that's all the contribution we need from him.

This!! Hampson is still raw, but is easily he best athlete on the team. Has potential to dominate from FF, there aren't to many defenders that would be able to match his pace, height and athletic ability. Once he gets his marking right he could be a real WEAPON

 

[Bluebear]

What we should be looking at is B.Goddard and with the saints very tight constraints (in fact currently being over the cap), their desperate need to rebuild and the fact free agency is on its way then he is suddenly a realistic target and at least you are guaranteed quality there.

So why not save the discussion until next year, as free agency doesn't come in until then.

He supported the blues as a young man and really a two horse race with GWS would probably be the only threat. The clear fact that we are probably the most long-term exciting proposition would be a big drawcard too!

Pfft, some threat.....I mean, what could they possibly offer that we couldn't........I mean sure.......multi million dollar contracts and the captaincy.......but hey.....he used to barrack for us remember......don't undersetimeate a (former) lifetime of loyalties.

I think he is the missing link....

I know he has a broad forehead and a rounded back......but that is a big call!

 

[No1Suspect]

Collingwood match winning midfielders - Luke Ball, Dane Swan, Scott Pendlebury
Geelong match winning midfielders - Joel Selwood, Jimmy Bartel, Paul Chapman
Carlton match winning midfielders - Chris Judd, Marc Murphy...

Of course the above is judged on how I rate midfielders as elite, but I think we still have room for one more elite midfielder to come in or step up from our own ranks. We have great depth of very good midfielders but just need the one more to really dominate and counteract not having a Barry Hall/J Brown who will clunk it the few times it goes inside 50.

Add to geelong - Kelly Ling Corey. BIG bodies around the ball which is why the are so good against the colliwobbles they have the size to throw them around.

We have judd and at times robbo throwing his head in. Its blatantly obvious we needs some grunt and size around the ball.

Our defence with another preseason will be more gelled together and our forward line with a fit kruezer or Hammer down there should get the job done.

Inside Mid should be first priority.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Waite, Thornton, especially after that EF effort with that contested marking, supported by Kreuzer while resting will be enough to win anything although a top line KP forward will certainly improve things alot further.

Hampson, while a wonderful ruckman, is not and will never be a forward. That is a skill on it's own. Can't catch or kick at goal. Ended up dropped trying to be a second ruck resting forward earlier in the season with Setanta being preferred as Warnock's back up until Kreuzer was fit.

There's not a KP forward available to be seen, bar Fev, so maybe another inside mid would work.

 

[The_Wookie]

Waite, Thornton, especially after that EF effort with that contested marking, supported by Kreuzer while resting will be enough to win anything although a top line KP forward will certainly improve things alot further.

Hampson, while a wonderful ruckman, is not and will never be a forward. That is a skill on it's own. Can't catch or kick at goal. Ended up dropped trying to be a second ruck resting forward earlier in the season with Setanta being preferred as Warnock's back up until Kreuzer was fit.

There's not a KP forward available to be seen, bar Fev, so maybe another inside mid would work.

He ended up dropped through injury. Did a hammy IIRC against the Swans just as he was really coming into a very nice vein of form. he did not successfully make it back before the season ended (played a game and a half for the ants where he kicked 9 goals though (which includes 6 in a match where he also dominated the ruck) - including 10 marks in a final in the VFL - thereby also helping to prove that your an idiot.)

Also note that Setanta didnt get a gig until kreuzer was dropped for injury. Warnock came back in for Hampson, and rucked with Kreuzer for several weeks before Kreuzer had his stupid foot thing)

 

[gbatman]

yeah I feel like trading for a ready made key forward would be a huge mistake. For a ready made midfielder then maybe. Carlton's focus should be on it's youth and it's young established players still.

I feel you always pay more than what they are worth when going for a forward or get one that was not really worth it. Like us getting another Stephen O'Reilly.

We picked up 3 real quality talls last year in McCarthy, Watson and Mitchell, lets not pick up some b grader who will cost us the earth, do bugger all and keep one of these guys out of the team.

No harm looking into making some big trades but we should be careful not to get any list cloggers, wast top picks or not lose any good players.

The onball group really needs boulstering. Our deal is to beat teams with our midfield and we aren't beating the top sides midfields. Breaking eaven is going to win us 0 premierships.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

As much as we need a 'power' marking forward, we wont be getting one come trade week. More chance of snagging Brian Lake or Matthew Warnock which may free up Hendo or even Jamo for stints up forward. Will have to give game time to Casboult and Mitchell up forward, see what they can offer. That in the mix with Krooz, Irish, Hampson and Waite will provide flexibility and somewhere in amongst it all some marking power.
Re-signing Hampson is important as this can set up Krooz as the marking target; I believe he can be that power forward, once he gets his body right.

 

[Jimthegreat]

He ended up dropped through injury. Did a hammy IIRC against the Swans just as he was really coming into a very nice vein of form. he did not successfully make it back before the season ended (played a game and a half for the ants where he kicked 9 goals though (which includes 6 in a match where he also dominated the ruck) - including 10 marks in a final in the VFL - thereby also helping to prove that your an idiot.)

Also note that Setanta didnt get a gig until kreuzer was dropped for injury. Warnock came back in for Hampson, and rucked with Kreuzer for several weeks before Kreuzer had his stupid foot thing)

Setanta did have a run before Kreuzer came back then injured his hand. Maybe I got the reason wrong but I do remember that change was discussed because Hampson was playing so badly as 2nd ruckman/forward. I remember Warnock getting dropped for Hampson allowing to latter play where he thrives, as first ruck.

Let's face it, Hampson is a terrific ruckman, make no mistake about that, but one hell of a crappy AFL (not VFL) forward. Can't play the position, can't catch a cold and then whe he's does take a mark he kicks like a dogs at hind leg at goal. Remember the frustration. It's why Kreuzer always has to be 2nd ruckman. He's the only ruckman we've got that can rest forward, take a mark supporting Waite and Thornton in the KP. Also why Hampson and Warnock can't play in the same team as neither do that much around the ground or forward.....except for last game, the SF, when we had no forwards.

Ruckmen are ruckmen, forwards are forwards. Different skills. Occasionally some cross over, eg Ottens, but not many.

 

[The_Wookie]

and Im saying you have completely overlooked the work they've done with him while hes been out of the senior squad. 6 goals and 10 marks in a VFL final is not to be sneezed at, coming back from injury.

Theres quite a body of evidence to suggest that Hampsons marking in the latter part of his season at AFL level was vastly improved on last year, and while his kicking on goal hasnt been awesome, its worth noting that the entire team is woefully inaccurate.

 

[born in carlton]

If Waite and Kruezer were fit all year i dont think we'd be discussing the forward line right now, If we dont land an absolute gun KPF i wouldnt even bother trading for one and i mean a top 10 forward anything else would be a waste imo

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

I'm slightly in the negative corner for Hampson just due to the odds of converting ruckman into successful KPFs.

I'm not pushing anything too much here because Hampson is a master of upside so he just might do it. Im also scared of the wookie!

The number of successful ruckman turned fwds is so few which is what makes me worry. And even if he does have a break out year as a fwd next year, we all know the ups and downs of ruckman..great one year, crap the next..clark, mcintosh, hale, the lists goes on forver with ruckman. So even if he does take a grab, we 100% know that out of his next 5 years, 3 will probably shit as he runs under the ball as a fwd...corey, corey, corey Mckernan..how could he be so good one minute and an absolute crab the next. Life of a ruckman i tells ya!

Corey Mckernan, Hale, Nicnat, Ottens, N Thompson... they could all do it for short spurts but never maintain it. Tippett maybe? Have to go back to P Salmon to find a successful convert. I'm sure i've forgotten a few but you get the idea that they just dont grow on trees, or more to the point, conversion odds are very low.

Hampson could freak it. Bloody hell, we are owed a freak it year from that guy. He can run faster than a speeding bullet, can leap tall trees in a single bound and we (the club) have set him up with Megan Gale. He owes us!

Personally, I think he is secretly studying a degree in upsidedness. The skill here is to tease us/the club beyond belief! The thing i'm worried about is, will we ever get to ejaculate!

 

[Azul]

I wouldn't pin my hopes on any of our ruckmen playing key forward. We'd be doing well if we could boast their accuracy to a goal a game. That'd be 44 odd goals a season between them.

Sorry Setanta fans, this year he'll be delisted.

The future lies with Watson, McCarthy, Mitchell, McInness and Casboult. If we can't get one of these guys up at least as an emergency in Round 1 next year then there's something seriously wrong with our development programs. In the case of Casboult, now or never.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

I wouldn't pin my hopes on any of our ruckmen playing key forward. We'd be doing well if we could boast their accuracy to a goal a game. That'd be 44 odd goals a season between them.

Sorry Setanta fans, this year he'll be delisted.

The future lies with Watson, McCarthy, Mitchell, McInness and Casboult. If we can't get one of these guys up at least as an emergency in Round 1 next year then there's something seriously wrong with our development programs. In the case of Casboult, now or never.

I wouldn't mind giving Casboult a go he has a lot of size and competes well in the air. Of the little I've seen of him in the VFL this year he has actually surprised me a bit, I really didn't think he would be any good but now I'm curious to see how he goes at AFL level.

Mitchell is another who I think can eventually take up a KPF role he does look like a natural forward so he will most definitely be another option.

But those guys are still a little raw which is why I would prefer to give Hampson a preseason training as a forward and see how he goes up there at the start of next season. As mentioned already, he showed some real signs of improvement throughout this season especially in his marking ability and that 6 goal haul in the VFL final doesn't count for nothing.

I say forget about past ruckman who couldn't make the transition to become a KPF, it does not mean Hammer can't do it. If he does, he will become the prototype for the modern day key forward.

 

[Azul]

Earlier in the year he couldn't take a mark to save himself. At other times, well, you could've written down a behind in advance. Worst case of the yips since JR played a year on a HFF.

I say forget about past ruckman who couldn't make the transition to become a KPF, it does not mean Hammer can't do it. If he does, he will become the prototype for the modern day key forward.

Undoubtedly but after 4 years at the club, I wouldn't hold my breath. 6 goal haul in the VFL final notwithstanding.

 

[Wickzki]

would have thought there would be more media if the saints were over the cap? (presumably you refer to 2012 and not this season)

What it sounded like was that when the club was working out its salary figures for a number of their players they weren't quite expecting to play in grand finals in back-to-back years among other performance enhancing incentives that kick into contracts -- which have positioned them from a manageable level to being over the cap. They've been extremely up front with the AFL and have worked with them to the full extent possible.

I believe when we had that unprecedented year in 1995 we also became the victim of our own success and were over the salary cap due to the incentives that kicked into a number of our own players contracts. This was separate from the "brown paper bags" situation and the club did work with the AFL, similarly to St. Kilda and the AFL essentially said "Yes, your success was unforeseeable."

Fortunately for us I think it was only the one year that we were effected by it but if the Saints have worked a number of contracts into the form of "if you/we meet these incentive conditions then your contract in years X, Y and Z increase #%" then they are going to have to make a major trade or something to keep under the cap. The AFL would allow the squeeze this year so long as they do their best to meet the cap in the future. The precedent is there.

Watch this space.

 

[Vamos Juddamente]

That isn't exactly the goal, is it? I mean, really? To beat the Eagles and make it to a prelim to get reamed by Collingwood/Geelong? That's your aim?

No, your aim is to absolutely crush them. It's not good enough simply putting up a jolly good show yet ultimately falling short. Our ultimate goal is to win a premiership, if not multiple. WE ARE CARLTON. To do that we need TWO players. We're desperately crying out for a power forward. As nice as Setanta is he's a reasonable secondary option. Let him do what he does best (when he's in the team), the bullocking work while the other guy crunches through packs and puts the ball at the feet of Betts and Garlett when he's unable to mark it. We also need another inside midfielder who makes life easier not only for Judd but for Murphy too. You give us both those two and it goes from "Well, throw those four guys in and we'd have beaten the mediocre Eagles" to "We're going to search, kill and destroy you Cololingwood and when we do, you'll be crying to your fat mama Eddie for the rest of your miserable, pathetic lives."

Can't say I agree there. People get a bit carried away with how much these big guys contribute. Walker has kicked how many more goals than Dawes this year?? What about the cats they have won two premierships with two of the all time great forward combinations of mooney & Nathan Ablett then Mooney & Hawkins(When he was horrid). Premierships are won with defence contested footy in the midfield. Our forward line is so much better now than it was 2 years ago when we had the best forward in the comp. Stick with whatt we have be patient the Blues are on the precipice.

 

[Blues_FC]

I'd be happy for us to use our higher picks on quality mids and use our lower picks for more speculative picks on mature aged KPFs.

Would be great to pick someone like Podsiadly up on the cheap. Gives our young forwards (Mitchell, Casboult) more time to develop and less pressure.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I'd be happy for us to use our higher picks on quality mids and use our lower picks for more speculative picks on mature aged KPFs..................

do you have any in mind ?

 

[chaser1]

Collingwood win bc Cloke and Dawes play well, they are big key forwards. In big games they will and and can get you over the line. If we are to Press for a premiership we need 2 key forwards who are able to stand up in big games.

This small forward line shit was out of neccesity bc of our injuries. Kreuzer is NOT a key forward and Waite is neither. yes we would have won if either Gibbs K, and Waite played. But we will Not make a Grand final without 2 key forwards.

Next year we need Casboult, Mithchell to stand up and WATSON as well. This begs the question our recruiting of KPP has been poor in the last few years.

We will not find what we are looking for in a trade!

 

[diro]

Kreuzer is NOT a key forward and Waite is neither.

I'd argue Waite is a super fwd when up and firing.