think about it...

[blueman91]

Too many carlton supporters out there and the club need to really think about it a bit more. All this talk of us needing a 'big' forward etc is a bit extravagant. What we need to do is keep learning how to use what we have got to our advantage and yes we do have plenty of options.

To trade for an established forward is too much of a hassle, who is out there, who can we lure and quite simply what can we give? The power forwards cost in terms of talent, you need to give big to get big and i don't see it as wise to offload talent that we already have unless it is for someone genuine. I seriously hope the club don't look to chase a big trade for a young 20 year old or something with potential, because really if you are going to do that then you might as well back our potential and solid players to shine through (mitchell, casboult, kruezer, hammer and others). What we should be looking at is B.Goddard and with the saints very tight constraints (in fact currently being over the cap), their desperate need to rebuild and the fact free agency is on its way then he is suddenly a realistic target and at least you are guaranteed quality there. He supported the blues as a young man and really a two horse race with GWS would probably be the only threat. The clear fact that we are probably the most long-term exciting proposition would be a big drawcard too!

I thought we believed a multi-dimensional forward line was the better option, so now we want to go back to the power forward based forward line which opens up the possibility of being one dimensional in attack again...

Basically, please don't go taking the risk of signing another 20 year old forward and stick to our own if that is the intention. No point giving up a star for a bit of potential. Goddard in the 22 please- saves goals, generates goals, kicks goals in one game. I think he is the missing link....

 

[Beloved]

A small forward line is excellent when it works, but when things aren't going right we have no back up plan. I think you need to think about what having a tall gorilla that bowls over those in his way, that also kicks and marks with ease, would do to our list.

Luke Mitchell and Levi Casboult are the guys that need to step up next year (moreso Casboult).

 

[blueman91]

Yes exactly EBIAC, it can sure help assuming they are blended in to a multi-dimensional forward line though. I'm sure you see my point though in that it would be suicidal to splash out on talent and money for another young player with 'potential'. I think there are a few things that could've been done this season a bit to change things up a bit too, like getting Judd out of the middle and around the goals at times to work his opponents over.

 

[Beloved]

Yes exactly EBIAC, it can sure help assuming they are blended in to a multi-dimensional forward line though. I'm sure you see my point though in that it would be suicidal to splash out on talent and money for another young player with 'potential'. I think there are a few things that could've been done this season a bit to change things up a bit too, like getting Judd out of the middle and around the goals at times to work his opponents over.

I'm with you in that I don't want to fork out a whole lot for an unproven player, but we need a tall body in the forward line.

 

[blue gunslinger]

did not like the idea of the PA Butcher kiddie

 

[laminex]

Yes exactly EBIAC, it can sure help assuming they are blended in to a multi-dimensional forward line though. I'm sure you see my point though in that it would be suicidal to splash out on talent and money for another young player with 'potential'. I think there are a few things that could've been done this season a bit to change things up a bit too, like getting Judd out of the middle and around the goals at times to work his opponents over.

People really need to think, Judd in the middle getting tagged out of the game, Judd in the forward line tagger goes to Murphy. The second person who was helping the tagger block Judd not blocks Murphy, we end up getting f#4ked. Judd in the middle being tagged out is worth more than just about any other mid in the game. It lets every other mid run free.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

OP is right. We don't need a power forward. If any of Kreuzer, Gibbs or Waite played against the Wiggles we probably would've won.

Just look at the Pies, they had Cloke and Dawes in their forward line and they were doing their job pretty well, but they were behind on the scoreboard for most of the match and had the Hawks not let up in the last quarter they would've lost.

The Wiggles had Keneddy, Darling, Lynch and a resting Cox/Natanui compared to us who effectively only had Setant after half time. Yet we outscored them in both the third and last quarters.

And also, you might think with our current setup that there's no backup plan when it doesn't work, but let me ask you this, how many seasons have we played with this forward setup? Furthermore, Betts and Garlett and evenWalker for that matter are still young and in Walker's case new to playing as a forward. So the reason it doesn't work at times is because of the consistency, they don't have it yet but they will over time once they get another preseason to hone their craft and then get game time throughout the seasons.

What we need to do is take a page out of Geelong's book and manage our players better so that come finals we have them up and running. Next year Judd must be rested for games against the Suns and Giants and even possibly Brisbane and Port. The fact is he is getting older and he has extra responsibility at home now with his son so he needs the extra rest, we are not reliant on him in those games. Waite's another one, he is starting to get injury prone and could do with a rest here and there because he is also getting old now. These 2 are crucial come finals. The young players like Murphy and Gibbs etc probably don't need to have these spells throughout the season because their bodies will hold up better but I wouldn't be against it if the club decided to give them a rest as well here and there.

BUT getting Goddard is a very good idea, would allow us to move Gibbs into the middle/forward and he is another match winner. The problem is how do we get him??? Let's say we convince him to ask for a trade to Carlton, what can we offer? I doubt we have anything that the Saints will be interested in that we're willing to trade. We'd need to obtain picks and early ones at that and I don't see that happenening either.

They need a ruckman, but we can't afford to give one away. Army's another type of player they'd be looking for but he's not worth Goddard. Our first pick will be in the 20's. Our most realistic chance is to trade Bower to either GWS or Freo for an early pick (which probably won't happen) and if we do get an early pick (around mid teens) we'd need to throw in our first rounder and Lucas and that still wouldn't be enough.

 

[Wickzki]

OP is right. We don't need a power forward. If any of Kreuzer, Gibbs or Waite played against the Wiggles we probably would've won.

That isn't exactly the goal, is it? I mean, really? To beat the Eagles and make it to a prelim to get reamed by Collingwood/Geelong? That's your aim?

No, your aim is to absolutely crush them. It's not good enough simply putting up a jolly good show yet ultimately falling short. Our ultimate goal is to win a premiership, if not multiple. WE ARE CARLTON. To do that we need TWO players. We're desperately crying out for a power forward. As nice as Setanta is he's a reasonable secondary option. Let him do what he does best (when he's in the team), the bullocking work while the other guy crunches through packs and puts the ball at the feet of Betts and Garlett when he's unable to mark it. We also need another inside midfielder who makes life easier not only for Judd but for Murphy too. You give us both those two and it goes from "Well, throw those four guys in and we'd have beaten the mediocre Eagles" to "We're going to search, kill and destroy you Cololingwood and when we do, you'll be crying to your fat mama Eddie for the rest of your miserable, pathetic lives."

 

[zeeCFC]

Get the feeling the club is looking to strengthen the midfield more.

The forward line functions great if Waite, Kreuze and Walker are in the same side. The only issue is our tall forward depth when one of them eventually gets injured (or suspended in Waite's case).

We'll probably get top 4 anyway but the progress of Mitchell and Hampson are huge to premiership aspirations of our side.

 

[Wickzki]

Get the feeling the club is looking to strengthen the midfield more.

I agree and I tend to believe that the feeling has a lot to do with the fact that the club feels that there really isn't anything or anyone out there who is guaranteed to make the difference we need up forward or at least at the price that we can and are willing to pay. That what is out there is questionably better than what we're already putting out there on the park or what we could put out there (e.g. Hampson). It's not that we don't have that particular need but rather that it isn't highly likely that it can be filled.

There seems to be quite a few options out there that would seemingly improve the midfield without incurring too greater an expense. Then you have a few top line guys who may or may not be available who while incurring a significant fee have a far greater likelihood of making a trade worth it than not (e.g. Goddard).

 

[blueman91]

That isn't exactly the goal, is it? I mean, really? To beat the Eagles and make it to a prelim to get reamed by Collingwood/Geelong? That's your aim?

No, your aim is to absolutely crush them. It's not good enough simply putting up a jolly good show yet ultimately falling short. Our ultimate goal is to win a premiership, if not multiple. WE ARE CARLTON. To do that we need TWO players. We're desperately crying out for a power forward. As nice as Setanta is he's a reasonable secondary option. Let him do what he does best (when he's in the team), the bullocking work while the other guy crunches through packs and puts the ball at the feet of Betts and Garlett when he's unable to mark it. We also need another inside midfielder who makes life easier not only for Judd but for Murphy too. You give us both those two and it goes from "Well, throw those four guys in and we'd have beaten the mediocre Eagles" to "We're going to search, kill and destroy you Cololingwood and when we do, you'll be crying to your fat mama Eddie for the rest of your miserable, pathetic lives."

Agree with much of this but really I don't think he's saying it would've just beaten the eagles and we would have been completely satisfied but rather we would've won and then could start fresh and change things up for the geelong challenge if need be. At the end of the day to win a flag you need to win finals, so its a process, win one, then try win another one and so forth. Inside mid, your right, otherwise just got to get robbo going wherever judd's man is going, ellard, curnow, mclean types could do a similar role. Once again, its all about using what you have got. Or when judd is being man-handled, assaulted etc, throw him forward out of the action and make the defenders accountable. He would've killed players like selwood there, but we failed to see if they could defend on the last line of defence or not.

 

[zeeCFC]

Collingwood match winning midfielders - Luke Ball, Dane Swan, Scott Pendlebury
Geelong match winning midfielders - Joel Selwood, Jimmy Bartel, Paul Chapman
Carlton match winning midfielders - Chris Judd, Marc Murphy...

Of course the above is judged on how I rate midfielders as elite, but I think we still have room for one more elite midfielder to come in or step up from our own ranks. We have great depth of very good midfielders but just need the one more to really dominate and counteract not having a Barry Hall/J Brown who will clunk it the few times it goes inside 50.

 

[jj1978]

I think the club are making a big play for Dawes. I keep hearing his name pop up from some people I know (I question them that it's BS but these guys are pretty good with information from the Collingwood sense.. eg I knew from round 1 that Leigh Brown would retire this year from their info).

Apparently Collingwoods cap has hit it's peak after the whole Thomas, Pendelbury, Swan plays by GWS and they don't have enough money for Dawes' worth. So as the Pies will be finishing above us... they have a choice trade reasonably and fairly for him or he will go to the draft and end up at GWS/GC17 etc etc as long as he gets paid what he's worth.

It'll be interesting come trade time... for I think we're going to be saddened to lose a player like Lucas, Bower and Russell but I think we'll be reeling in someone we'll be happy with.

 

[Beloved]

I did say to pick up Galea. Kicked 4 goals in a row (for both teams) to help Port Melbourne get back in front after being 27 down.

The biggest small forward I've personally seen.

 

[blueman91]

Collingwood match winning midfielders - Luke Ball, Dane Swan, Scott Pendlebury
Geelong match winning midfielders - Joel Selwood, Jimmy Bartel, Paul Chapman
Carlton match winning midfielders - Chris Judd, Marc Murphy...

Of course the above is judged on how I rate midfielders as elite, but I think we still have room for one more elite midfielder to come in or step up from our own ranks. We have great depth of very good midfielders but just need the one more to really dominate and counteract not having a Barry Hall/J Brown who will clunk it the few times it goes inside 50.

Chris yarran? Bryce Gibbs? Should be moved more up the ground in yarran's case especially when things aren't going to well for him in games. Gibbs should be in the middle 95% of the time full-stop!

 

[Tanks_Alot]

That isn't exactly the goal, is it? I mean, really? To beat the Eagles and make it to a prelim to get reamed by Collingwood/Geelong? That's your aim?

Lol are you serious? Geelong would most definitely not ream us and neither would Collingwood. Did you watch our games against them this year? Cats were VERY lucky not to lose against us at Etihad so at the MCG I would've fancied our chances. As for the Pies, well they're not playing too crash hot lately, they got smashed by the Cats at the MCG and barely beat the Eagles who did NOT have Kerr and Cox was out for most of the match and they scraped over the line against the Hawks. We had our chances against the Pies both times we played them when they were in red hot form so with their current form, I also would've fancied our chances against them.

No, your aim is to absolutely crush them.

Yes of course that's the aim, but realistically, no team is going to crush sides like Geelong and Collingwood in a GF. The good news is while we improve next year, they will be declining. The Cats have been magnificent over the past 5 years, but their list will be another year older and if they win the flag this year will not be as hungry. I predict they'll still be tough to beat, but won't be part of the top 2 sides in the comp. The Pies will be losing Malthouse and with Buckley in charge I doubt they'll be as tough as they were this year. Also, Jolly will be another year older and once his form declines so do their premiership chances with Wood in the ruck and no Leigh Brown to backup.

It's not good enough simply putting up a jolly good show yet ultimately falling short. Our ultimate goal is to win a premiership, if not multiple. WE ARE CARLTON.

Of course we want to win a premiership, but you seem to forget the Bulldogs were in a very similar position to us and got Hall and what did he do exactly???

To do that we need TWO players. We're desperately crying out for a power forward. As nice as Setanta is he's a reasonable secondary option. Let him do what he does best (when he's in the team), the bullocking work while the other guy crunches through packs and puts the ball at the feet of Betts and Garlett when he's unable to mark it. We also need another inside midfielder who makes life easier not only for Judd but for Murphy too. You give us both those two and it goes from "Well, throw those four guys in and we'd have beaten the mediocre Eagles" to "We're going to search, kill and destroy you Cololingwood and when we do, you'll be crying to your fat mama Eddie for the rest of your miserable, pathetic lives."

We have a very good KPF his name is Jarrad Waite and he is far better than Setanta and Chris Dawes. I do agree that we need an inside mid to help Judd and Murph. So where are we going to get this inside mid from? It will be tough to get one, we need Curnow to get back to his early season form or someone else has to step up. It won't be McLean. IF we get Goddard then maybe Gibbs can be that extra damaging mid we need. No team's going to come up against us with 3 decent taggers. If they tag Judd out, Murph and Gibbs can do the damage.

Back to the forward situation, I mentioned the other day that maybe we should try putting Hammer up there as a forward with his athletecism there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to become a danger to opposition defences. The club just signed him for 3 more years so I'd imagine that's what the plan is anyway.

Also we mustn't forget that if we chase Dawes the Pies will want one of our ruckman at the very least plus they'll be pricks and demand something else on top of it. They wouldn't mind seeing him go into the PSD than go to us. Not worth it

 

[Wickzki]

Chris yarran? Bryce Gibbs? Should be moved more up the ground in yarran's case especially when things aren't going to well for him in games. Gibbs should be in the middle 95% of the time full-stop!

Gibbs has the potential to get himself to that level but is a long way from being there just yet.

Chris Yarran isn't a midfielder yet and seems to be primed for a role across the wing. I doubt he will ever be played out of the middle. Not that type, but doesn't need to be either.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

OP is right. We don't need a power forward. If any of Kreuzer, Gibbs or Waite played against the Wiggles we probably would've won.

Typically, I prefer not to speculate, but with this I definately agree.

Play any of those three (who are all in our most important dozen) and the taglines turn from "Blues desperately need a tall forward" to being "small but perfectly formed" as it was when we beat the Cats.

The truth is, we lost because we lacked that extra cover Waite could've provided on say Darling, the get-out option that Kreuzer might've given us, and the polish that Gibbs would've supplied.

Moving forward securing a long-term tall forward is really not about actually having a tall forward per se. It's about adding another string to our forward line, when it comes to the crunch.

With that in mind, I'd rather see us throw the same draft picks and players at recruiting another midfielder, instead.

Not only am I confident in the young blokes we selected last year, but I think that the sub rule will force Kreuzer to spend increasing amounts of time down forward and will work well in tandem with Walker.

The off-season will give us an indication as to how the coaching staff opt to address this problem. We saw Walker transformed in basically one pre-season, and all indications are that Austin (if persisted with) will be forced to transform into a forward too. Kreuzer might be in a similar boat.

 

[Wickzki]

Back to the forward situation, I mentioned the other day that maybe we should try putting Hammer up there as a forward with his athletecism there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to become a danger to opposition defences. The club just signed him for 3 more years so I'd imagine that's what the plan is anyway.

Much of what you write is contrived tripe, an extreme of other opinions that for the most part I do agree with. However, I must point out that you're FAR from the only one who has suggested Hampson forward. As far as I can tell it is the team's plan for this to happen. As you'll see, if you've read my best 22 posts I've had Hampson at full forward since about round fifteen (perhaps even before that). In fact, I was begging for the team to play Hampson (FF or FP with Waite either FF/FP or HF (similar to how T-Bird was played)), Kreuzer (CHF) and Warnock (ruck) in the same team once Hampson got healthy. Unfortunately, the only time we had an opportunity to try this they played Hammer in the VFL and then Kreuzer got hurt before the finals and the club went with Setanta over Hammer - a known quality over a question mark, which for finals football was sensible.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Much of what you write is contrived tripe, an extreme of other opinions that for the most part I do agree with. However, I must point out that you're FAR from the only one who has suggested Hampson forward. As far as I can tell it is the team's plan for this to happen. As you'll see, if you've read my best 22 posts I've had Hampson at full forward since about round fifteen (perhaps even before that). In fact, I was begging for the team to play Hampson (FF or FP), Kreuzer (CHF) and Warnock (ruck) in the same team once Hampson got healthy. Unfortunately, the only time we had an opportunity to try this they played Hammer in the VFL and then Kreuzer got hurt before the finals and the club went with Setanta over Hammer - a known quality over a question mark, which for finals football was sensible.

I'm not saying I'm the first and/or only guy to come up with throwing Hampson forward, I'm just saying I think it would be a good idea. I'm not going to read your best 22 posts, I'll just take your word for it.

 

[blueman91]

Over the pre-season it should be like this for hampson. They should just be working on his marking and kicking at goal. Just keep working it over till it improves. Its pretty simple, get your hands on it and put it through the two big sticks, that's all the contribution we need from him.

 

[zeeCFC]

Chris yarran? Bryce Gibbs? Should be moved more up the ground in yarran's case especially when things aren't going to well for him in games. Gibbs should be in the middle 95% of the time full-stop!

Can't be wingman. You need someone that if the chips are down will go hard in and under and win you contests.

 

[Graffy4242]

Can't be wingman. You need someone that if the chips are down will go hard in and under and win you contests.

Like Simmo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dumpstar]

I would agree but Waite is very injury prone and is also prone to getting suspended. We definitely need another tall forward target for depth. Thornton is getting on now and for as much as I love Setanta I don't think he is the answer.

Whether that's one of Casboult or Mitchell I dont know, I personally hope one of them can make the step up so we don't have to trade too big to get one in.

Wouldn't mind Dawes if we could get him at a decent price, he's young and could definitely do a job IMO.

 

[blue gunslinger]

I would agree but Waite is very injury prone and is also prone to getting suspended. We definitely need another tall forward target for depth. Thornton is getting on now and for as much as I love Setanta I don't think he is the answer.

Whether that's one of Casboult or Mitchell I dont know, I personally hope one of them can make the step up so we don't have to trade too big to get one in.

Wouldn't mind Dawes if we could get him at a decent price, he's young and could definitely do a job IMO.

Lucas in midfield and Ellard as tall fwd