Secondary Thinking about becoming a teacher

AngryRanga

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-thread title-

Does anyone know where to get course advice as a mature-age student, or on how the process works? Just want all the options for studying teaching laid out in front of me. I have no idea how to do this, first degree was just end of Yr 12 through VTAC.
My specialisation from past studies is PE. For the other, I'm looking at English/Hums/Legal.

Does mismatching my specialisation (PE/English) in two oversaturated areas just make me extremely unemployable?

The alternatives being to do PE/Health, or ignore PE and do English and either Hums or Legal.

I've already failed to get employed once out of Uni, so this is a pretty primary concern for me. Any advice appreciated on how to maximise employability (for someone with no aptitude for math/science).
tldr; my past studies allow me to study as a PE teacher but I need another specialisation to do a Masters of Teaching (Secondary). Kind of want this new specialisation to be my main teaching area.

I've narrowed my options down to two courses.

A. Graduate Diploma in Arts (English OR Sociology [eng v hums]). 1 year, totalling 3 years w/master of teaching.​
B. Bachelor of Arts/Master of Teaching (Secondary). 4 year combined course.​

The crux of the dilemma is how qualified do I need to be? To get jobs as a Secondary English or Hums teacher, is that one-year Grad Dip enough? Both to be employable, and to be knowledgeable enough to teach to a high standard?


Option A is just a year and a major, whereas in Option B I'd probably do an English lit major/Hums minor and then round it out with the four remaining units.


Any opinions appreciated, particularly if you have a HR/Recruitment/Management perspective. Kind of tearing my hair out and need to apply ASAP.
 

superfraser

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tldr; my past studies allow me to study as a PE teacher but I need another specialisation to do a Masters of Teaching (Secondary). Kind of want this new specialisation to be my main teaching area.

I've narrowed my options down to two courses.

A. Graduate Diploma in Arts (English OR Sociology [eng v hums]). 1 year, totalling 3 years w/master of teaching.​
B. Bachelor of Arts/Master of Teaching (Secondary). 4 year combined course.​

The crux of the dilemma is how qualified do I need to be? To get jobs as a Secondary English or Hums teacher, is that one-year Grad Dip enough? Both to be employable, and to be knowledgeable enough to teach to a high standard?


Option A is just a year and a major, whereas in Option B I'd probably do an English lit major/Hums minor and then round it out with the four remaining units.


Any opinions appreciated, particularly if you have a HR/Recruitment/Management perspective. Kind of tearing my hair out and need to apply ASAP.

Take the faster route.

You can learn everything you need to learn outside of Uni. Unless you're teaching VCE English / VCE Literature / VCE Sociology you won't need the high level knowledge, and even if you do teach any of those, a dedicated practitioner will learn precisely what they need to know through the Study Design and past exam papers.

That you're even asking these questions already makes you more employable.

You're right to consider employability as an option. But if you're reasonably strong socially and continue to be dedicated, you'll stand out and get picked up quickly through the CRT pool if not through standard recruiting.
 

CliffMcTainshaw

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Hey everyone,

Sorry to hijack this conversation by any chance :tearsofjoy:

I am 19 years old and didn't choose to go the ATAR route through school as much as I wished I did now and I am kinda lost in life atm.

I plan to go to uni when I'm in my 20s so I can mature before I make that step.

I have always wanted to be a teacher but didn't know if what levels I wanted to teach given I would probably study P.E or something like that.

However I do understand that if I did do primary it would be hard to be a Primary P.E Teacher given the lack of them.

For anyone who has experience teaching, Is primary or secondary teaching easier to teach and why?

Thanks everyone :)
Do you like making things?
If you do then have a look at becoming a Technology Teacher. Pretty intense in the classroom, but no way near as much work at home doing correction etc. as say a Science, Maths or English teacher. The advantage over those subjects is that for most of the year levels, it is an elective subject and the kids choose to be there because they want to be, far less behaviour problems.
Kids up to the end of year 8 are much like primary school students and still have that sense of wonder, imagination and willingness to have a go. Year 9 onwards they are developing into young adults and you can have some great conversations with them and establish lasting connections well into their adult life. I still keep in contact with quite a few former students, some from way back to the early 80's. I've employed quite a few for renovations on my house over the years. I have played sport with and against about a half dozen students that I coached over my time.
The other thing about teaching is that there are lots of areas outside of the classroom that you can become involved in. It is a great way to get to know students outside the classroom and they can be a completely different person to the one you have known in class. You also get to meet a much wider range of kids that you may never actually teach in class.
Have a look here.
http://www.datta.vic.edu.au/content/technologies-teacher-shortage-crisis
 
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HulkSmash

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I am a trained technology teacher, specialising in IT, but in NSW, you must be able to teach woodwork, metalwork, cooking, D&T etc, in stage 4 (years 7 and 8), as it is an compulsory subject. As much as Cliff is on the money in some areas, classroom management is an issue when the kids do not want to listen to you and your head teacher isn't a technology teacher, as my last two were, and don't want to listen to you either (for those playing at home, they were science and art trained). They don't get it. It takes a kid having 3rd degree burns or a finger cut off for anyone to listen (not that it happened to me).

Make sure you get into a school where the head teacher of technology IS a technology teacher. Not science, or PE, or art, because they keep tacking on technology to another faculty. Don't know what it's like in Victoria but in NSW, that's what constantly happens and it's an WHS issue in my opinion.
 

Suspense

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I am a trained technology teacher, specialising in IT, but in NSW, you must be able to teach woodwork, metalwork, cooking, D&T etc, in stage 4 (years 7 and 8), as it is an compulsory subject. As much as Cliff is on the money in some areas, classroom management is an issue when the kids do not want to listen to you and your head teacher isn't a technology teacher, as my last two were, and don't want to listen to you either (for those playing at home, they were science and art trained). They don't get it. It takes a kid having 3rd degree burns or a finger cut off for anyone to listen (not that it happened to me).

Make sure you get into a school where the head teacher of technology IS a technology teacher. Not science, or PE, or art, because they keep tacking on technology to another faculty. Don't know what it's like in Victoria but in NSW, that's what constantly happens and it's an WHS issue in my opinion.
I'm a Computing teacher in Vic - and I wouldn't be allowed to teach other technologies subjects like woodwork, metalwork, cooking, textiles etc. For good reason as you allude to. Unless they have another specialist method, in my experience, most Computing teachers in Vic just teach junior systems or math to fill out their load.
 
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wadistance

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Hey everyone,

Sorry to hijack this conversation by any chance :tearsofjoy:

I am 19 years old and didn't choose to go the ATAR route through school as much as I wished I did now and I am kinda lost in life atm.

I plan to go to uni when I'm in my 20s so I can mature before I make that step.

I have always wanted to be a teacher but didn't know if what levels I wanted to teach given I would probably study P.E or something like that.

However I do understand that if I did do primary it would be hard to be a Primary P.E Teacher given the lack of them.

For anyone who has experience teaching, Is primary or secondary teaching easier to teach and why?

Thanks everyone :)
I started off as a secondary teacher, now in primary. Definitely positives to both. Not sure if I’d go back to secondary now unless it was HSC level though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Deliverance

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Hey everyone,

Sorry to hijack this conversation by any chance :tearsofjoy:

I am 19 years old and didn't choose to go the ATAR route through school as much as I wished I did now and I am kinda lost in life atm.

I plan to go to uni when I'm in my 20s so I can mature before I make that step.

I have always wanted to be a teacher but didn't know if what levels I wanted to teach given I would probably study P.E or something like that.

However I do understand that if I did do primary it would be hard to be a Primary P.E Teacher given the lack of them.

For anyone who has experience teaching, Is primary or secondary teaching easier to teach and why?

Thanks everyone :)
Neither is easier, its just what you're more suited to, younger kids or older. Just because you choose one doesn't mean you can't experience the other. Upskilling in education is a piece of piss. To switch from primary to secondary or Vickie verco, you just need to network and interview well if you want to switch.
 

scotty13

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Hey everyone,

Sorry to hijack this conversation by any chance :tearsofjoy:

I am 19 years old and didn't choose to go the ATAR route through school as much as I wished I did now and I am kinda lost in life atm.

I plan to go to uni when I'm in my 20s so I can mature before I make that step.

I have always wanted to be a teacher but didn't know if what levels I wanted to teach given I would probably study P.E or something like that.

However I do understand that if I did do primary it would be hard to be a Primary P.E Teacher given the lack of them.

For anyone who has experience teaching, Is primary or secondary teaching easier to teach and why?

Thanks everyone :)
Have a good second focus to PE. When I was at uni, half the students in all my classes were doing PE. Some were unable to go out on placement because there were not enough schools for the amount of PE students (This is clearly a fault of the uni for allowing such a large intake).

I specialised in language, walked into a job first year out of uni, got permanency in my second year and I am now in my third year as the schools Head of Language. No doubt luck fell my way with all of this, but had I been a maths/science, English/Hass teacher I would still likely be living contract to contract.
 

Jack Richards

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I'm a Computing teacher in Vic - and I wouldn't be allowed to teach other technologies subjects like woodwork, metalwork, cooking, textiles etc. For good reason as you allude to. Unless they have another specialist method, in my experience, most Computing teachers in Vic just teach junior systems or math to fill out their load.
Im a generalist trained teacher who teaches STEM, I have attended PDs on STEM and have a fair understanding of Science and Tech.

The school want me to incorporate Horticulture into the program but have NFI on how to do that. Lucky I have Mates who teach it at their school so will lean on their knowledge
 

patterns

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Im a generalist trained teacher who teaches STEM, I have attended PDs on STEM and have a fair understanding of Science and Tech.

The school want me to incorporate Horticulture into the program but have NFI on how to do that. Lucky I have Mates who teach it at their school so will lean on their knowledge
Horticulture should be a nice balance to your work.
 

CliffMcTainshaw

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The critical shortage of qualified Design & Technologies teachers is the biggest issue faced by our Schools. DATTA Vic is advocating on our members' behalf to government and the tertiary sector, but we know more short-term solutions are required.

Thanks to the findings of our 2019 Teacher Shortage Survey, we know that almost 90% of schools have been forced to use teachers from other learning areas to deliver the Design & Technologies curriculum.

We are currently compiling a register of experienced teachers who would be happy to act as a mentor to educators either new to teaching or new to the D&T learning area. This will be an invaluable source of support for inexperienced colleagues throughout Victoria. For more information and to join the register, click HERE.
 

Jack Richards

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Bit of a random story to go along with a question:

I took on a leadership role at my new school last year. Like all leading teachers this role is a 2year contract. The teacher who was in my role before me (coordinator) wasnt in the role as a leader, just a classroom teacher.

She recently came up to me and asked if she could have my SC and resume to "update her application for when she was ready to apply for leadership roles". Normally I don't mind sharing my application, but in this case as leadership roles are only 2 year gigs (before prins can either roll me over for another 2 years, make me apply again or put me back in the classroom), I am hesitant in doing so.

Am I right to not give my hard work or should I not be a tight wad and give her my application to get ideas from in her application.
 

Deliverance

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Bit of a random story to go along with a question:

I took on a leadership role at my new school last year. Like all leading teachers this role is a 2year contract. The teacher who was in my role before me (coordinator) wasnt in the role as a leader, just a classroom teacher.

She recently came up to me and asked if she could have my SC and resume to "update her application for when she was ready to apply for leadership roles". Normally I don't mind sharing my application, but in this case as leadership roles are only 2 year gigs (before prins can either roll me over for another 2 years, make me apply again or put me back in the classroom), I am hesitant in doing so.

Am I right to not give my hard work or should I not be a tight wad and give her my application to get ideas from in her application.
If you do the job well and keep good relationships with the prin. Your SC and resume will count for 4/5 of bugger all and the job will automatically be yours. And vice versa.
 

Breustiful

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The critical shortage of qualified Design & Technologies teachers is the biggest issue faced by our Schools. DATTA Vic is advocating on our members' behalf to government and the tertiary sector, but we know more short-term solutions are required.

Thanks to the findings of our 2019 Teacher Shortage Survey, we know that almost 90% of schools have been forced to use teachers from other learning areas to deliver the Design & Technologies curriculum.

We are currently compiling a register of experienced teachers who would be happy to act as a mentor to educators either new to teaching or new to the D&T learning area. This will be an invaluable source of support for inexperienced colleagues throughout Victoria. For more information and to join the register, click HERE.
Didn't know it was this bad with Design Tech. I remember last year we had to put the call out to unqualified teachers at our school to take it and put them through the required training. Why is there such a shortage?


Personally, I couldn't imagine letting a kid these days near a band saw when they can't even spell their name correctly.
 

Jack Richards

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Didn't know it was this bad with Design Tech. I remember last year we had to put the call out to unqualified teachers at our school to take it and put them through the required training. Why is there such a shortage?


Personally, I couldn't imagine letting a kid these days near a band saw when they can't even spell their name correctly.
I think the OHS side of Design Tech can be daunting. We are looking at doing a hands on learning program and I personally wouldn't be comfortable supervising kids with saws and electric tools.
 

CliffMcTainshaw

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Personally, I couldn't imagine letting a kid these days near a band saw when they can't even spell their name correctly.
I think the OHS side of Design Tech can be daunting. We are looking at doing a hands on learning program and I personally wouldn't be comfortable supervising kids with saws and electric tools.
Please don't take this personally, but your replies show just what might happen if an unqualified teacher ends up in charge of a Technology class.
Students are not allowed to use a bandsaw at any time and there are only certain electric hand tools that are allowed to be used by students. To use them they have to be instructed on their safe use by a properly trained teacher.

I've seen projects by the students of untrained teachers that have been wired up to 240v by students (This is not legal under any circumstance). There are lots of things that students are not allowed to do and materials they cannot use. VCAA do not keep a record of what is and isn't allowed, so every time an experienced teacher retires, all that information is lost and the new untrained teacher has no idea of what is not allowable and has no way of finding out.

It can all be traced back to Jeff Kennett who shut down the only Teacher's College exclusively training Technology teachers. Trained Technology teachers have been slowly diminishing in numbers ever since.

Latrobe later started a course. This year due to the reduction of the money international student brought into Universities, Latrobe has dropped a number of courses. The last course that was available to train Technology Teachers in Victoria has ceased to exist this year.
Any trained Technology teacher in the future will be arriving from the UK.
 
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Jack Richards

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Please don't take this personally, but your replies show just what might happen if an unqualified teacher ends up in charge of a Technology class.
Students are not allowed to use a bandsaw at any time and there are only certain electric hand tools that are allowed to be used by students. To use them they have to be instructed on their safe use by a properly trained teacher.
I can comfortably do ICT and basic construction as a STEM specialist but not carpentry which is what is not in my expertise. Universities don't incorporare that and teachers also don't have time to take on an apprenticeship in that field as we are under the pump with an increasingly bigger workload.

I would be more than happy to learn if my workplace freed up time in timetable which at the moment is filled with classroom prac, PRT mentoring and observations (6 need to do their VIT registration by September to become fully qualified) and meetings.
 

Jack Richards

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VCAA do not keep a record of what is and isn't allowed, so every time an experienced teacher retires, all that information is lost and the new untrained teacher has no idea of what is not allowable and has no way of finding out.
Yep. I struggled to find info on the VCAA and DEECD in regards to 3D printers and setting them up safely (how far apart, how many you can have in one room per m2 etc). Nothing.

Called them and not even the people in regards to technologies and OHS could tell me. Just said "have them in a ventilated room with a window".
 

Breustiful

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Please don't take this personally, but your replies show just what might happen if an unqualified teacher ends up in charge of a Technology class.
Students are not allowed to use a bandsaw at any time and there are only certain electric hand tools that are allowed to be used by students. To use them they have to be instructed on their safe use by a properly trained teacher.
Absolutely not, was in jest. It is a shame that such a subject is treated so insignificantly now.

Not surprising RE Kennett. A lot of the issues we have experienced in the education sector in Victoria can be squarely put at the feet of Kennett.
 

Suspense

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Didn't know it was this bad with Design Tech. I remember last year we had to put the call out to unqualified teachers at our school to take it and put them through the required training. Why is there such a shortage?
Anecdotal, but design tech teachers always seem to the most overworked teachers in every school I've worked in:
  • Often a single-teacher subject (no sharing the load in terms of creation of resources, assessment etc.)
  • Huge amounts of prep, ordering/cutting resources, maintenance of equipment, room fit-outs etc.
  • Folio-based assessment
  • Reliant on teacher-generated resources/projects - not textbook-based
  • Often a dumping ground for non-academic kids who don't really wanna be at school but need to finish VCE
 

Breustiful

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Anecdotal, but design tech teachers always seem to the most overworked teachers in every school I've worked in:
  • Often a single-teacher subject (no sharing the load in terms of creation of resources, assessment etc.)
  • Huge amounts of prep, ordering/cutting resources, maintenance of equipment, room fit-outs etc.
  • Folio-based assessment
  • Reliant on teacher-generated resources/projects - not textbook-based
  • Often a dumping ground for non-academic kids who don't really wanna be at school but need to finish VCE
Do you not have a tech to assist?
 

freddy mercury

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One of my best mates has his teaching degree, also has a Criminology degree, so obviously not a moron, the smartest bloke I know. Poor bloke applied for countless roles, had interviews, progressed to the next stage. Nothing. No job.


A girl I worked with at a pub couple of years ago, finished uni, got a temp job covering for maternity leave 6 months after she graduated. After the temp job finished, they offered her a full time job teaching grade 2.

Either she is ******* incredibly lucky or her gender played a part. I just felt so sorry for the guy, now he is driving forklifts at Harvey Norman on $24 an hour because he has simply given up.
 

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