Secondary Thinking about becoming a teacher

Mar 28, 2006
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Thank you, this is useful. That fits in well with what I want to do then. Do you think the university studied at matters?
Do you mean in terms of prestige? Some private schools might care - but most schools won't. Studying at ACU might be a benefit for Catholic school jobs.

In terms of whether to do Secondary at ACU now or wait until next year to Primary/Secondary at Monash, it really depends. If you want to mostly teach in Secondary but only thinking of doing Prim/Sec for employability, I would say just focus on Secondary. If you want to do Prim/Sec because you aren't sure which you would rather teach in, then it might be good to do Prim/Sec.

The people I know who did the Prim/Sec course - and after a few placements of both settings, they knew which setting they wanted to work in - so that, along with the career flexibility, is a benefit. It also depends on what you would be doing for the next six months while waiting for the Prim/Sec course to start. Are you looking at an 18-month accelerated course or a two-year course?
 

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Do you mean in terms of prestige? Some private schools might care - but most schools won't. Studying at ACU might be a benefit for Catholic school jobs.

In terms of whether to do Secondary at ACU now or wait until next year to Primary/Secondary at Monash, it really depends. If you want to mostly teach in Secondary but only thinking of doing Prim/Sec for employability, I would say just focus on Secondary. If you want to do Prim/Sec because you aren't sure which you would rather teach in, then it might be good to do Prim/Sec.

The people I know who did the Prim/Sec course - and after a few placements of both settings, they knew which setting they wanted to work in - so that, along with the career flexibility, is a benefit. It also depends on what you would be doing for the next six months while waiting for the Prim/Sec course to start. Are you looking at an 18-month accelerated course or a two-year course?
My preference is definitely secondary, it’s more the employability aspect that had me thinking about the Primary/Secondary degree.

I’m pretty keen to get qualified as soon as possible so I’m thinking I’ll do the 18 month course. If I can start the secondary degree at ACU in July, I could be done by the end of next year.
 
Mar 28, 2006
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My preference is definitely secondary, it’s more the employability aspect that had me thinking about the Primary/Secondary degree.

I’m pretty keen to get qualified as soon as possible so I’m thinking I’ll do the 18 month course. If I can start the secondary degree at ACU in July, I could be done by the end of next year.
That would be my recommendation then. Finishing at the end of a year is advantageous. There are many more positions available then (although there are more graduates as well). I finished mid-year, and although I got a job, there weren't many positions around at the time. Others had to settle for CRT work - which dries up once VCE exams finish - and no pay over the holidays. As I said, Hums/English would be fairly employable regardless though.
 

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If you want to take on a subject like English, Hums or PE, I'd make sure my second method is something in high demand like Science or Maths as it seems like every CRT that passes through our school is someone who is trained in the first three fields.
 

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Supply teachers must be feeling the pinch. Wouldn't be much need for them atm.
 

Ducky Tie

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That would be my recommendation then. Finishing at the end of a year is advantageous. There are many more positions available then (although there are more graduates as well). I finished mid-year, and although I got a job, there weren't many positions around at the time. Others had to settle for CRT work - which dries up once VCE exams finish - and no pay over the holidays. As I said, Hums/English would be fairly employable regardless though.
Thanks for all the help. Really useful. I reckon I'll do that.
 
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Supply teachers must be feeling the pinch. Wouldn't be much need for them atm.
Yep. I know of some who have had to go on Centrelink. Not to mention Recruitment Online has slowed up as schools hold off on recruiting until they find out what happened. I know our school has told applicants they have withdrawn the positions until further notice.
 

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Am almost done (in my last semester) with my Bachelor of Arts and have decided to do teaching. I’m still a bit torn between whether primary or secondary is the way to go. Secondary is my preference as a History and English teacher but I’m worried the job prospects aren’t that great for that. Would doing PE give me a better chance? It’s not my preference to do PE but if it would help then I’d do it.

Have to decide which uni/s to apply for as well. If I went to ACU, I could start straight away in semester 2, but would have to pick between primary/secondary. If I wait for next year, I could to the Primary and Secondary degree at Monash. I like the idea of being qualified for p-12 but would mean I waste the second half of this year. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Stick with History/English there are a s**t tonne of PE teachers. I'm a Humanities and English teacher (Politics and History are my majors, whilst English is my minor). Walked into my school as a humanities teacher, I'm now solely senior English. English teachers are always in demand.


In regards to Primary and Secondary.
What age bracket would you prefer to teach? For me, I can't hack the little kids 'he did this, she said that' and the helicoptering parents who arrive in the classroom in the morning and want to know the ins and outs.
 

Ducky Tie

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Stick with History/English there are a s**t tonne of PE teachers. I'm a Humanities and English teacher (Politics and History are my majors, whilst English is my minor). Walked into my school as a humanities teacher, I'm now solely senior English. English teachers are always in demand.


In regards to Primary and Secondary.
What age bracket would you prefer to teach? For me, I can't hack the little kids 'he did this, she said that' and the helicoptering parents who arrive in the classroom in the morning and want to know the ins and outs.
Thanks for the reply. With regards to History/Humanities, I’m a bit confused. On the ACU application, it lists History and Humanities as separate teaching areas. How does this work in relation to subjects at school that you can teach? If I was to do English and Humanities as my teaching areas, does that mean I couldn’t teach History? And visa versa if I was to do English and History?

Re the age bracket, I’m pretty sure I’m going to do secondary. Was tossing up a bit but have settled on secondary over the past week or so.
 
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Thanks for the reply. With regards to History/Humanities, I’m a bit confused. On the ACU application, it lists History and Humanities as separate teaching areas. How does this work in relation to subjects at school that you can teach? If I was to do English and Humanities as my teaching areas, does that mean I couldn’t teach History? And visa versa if I was to do English and History?

Re the age bracket, I’m pretty sure I’m going to do secondary. Was tossing up a bit but have settled on secondary over the past week or so.
Hums is a 7-10 subject. History is year 11& 12
 

Breustiful

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Thanks for the reply. With regards to History/Humanities, I’m a bit confused. On the ACU application, it lists History and Humanities as separate teaching areas. How does this work in relation to subjects at school that you can teach? If I was to do English and Humanities as my teaching areas, does that mean I couldn’t teach History? And visa versa if I was to do English and History?

Re the age bracket, I’m pretty sure I’m going to do secondary. Was tossing up a bit but have settled on secondary over the past week or so.
What deliverance said.
But just remember as a 7-10 Hums teacher you’ll teach civics and citizenship, geography and history throughout the year. VCE is where you focus on your core subject.
 
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How does this work in relation to subjects at school that you can teach?
In short, it doesn't have much weight, internal to schools.

Teachers in a secondary context often get lumped with subjects that aren't their primary methods, particularly at younger secondary levels. Doubly so in hard-to-staff schools, such as rural areas. For example, an English teacher mate of mine studied one semester of maths at uni, and her school thinks she's fine to take a 7 or 8 maths class every so often if it's useful for the timetabler.

It's a bit tighter in the later years, in Year 11 and 12 such as VCE in Victoria. Some reading on the Vic context here, where it's more about your other university studies than what you do in your educational studies.

Your experiences on teaching placements are the most important thing for your teaching career, as far as the degrees go. And your selected teaching areas or methods can influence what your placements look like.

Lastly, it's somewhat relevant for job applications, e.g. if you're applying for a History job, your application won't get far if you haven't studied any History at university OR you don't have a straight History method OR you don't have prior experience teaching the subject.
 

CliffMcTainshaw

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Am almost done (in my last semester) with my Bachelor of Arts and have decided to do teaching. I’m still a bit torn between whether primary or secondary is the way to go. Secondary is my preference as a History and English teacher but I’m worried the job prospects aren’t that great for that. Would doing PE give me a better chance? It’s not my preference to do PE but if it would help then I’d do it.

Have to decide which uni/s to apply for as well. If I went to ACU, I could start straight away in semester 2, but would have to pick between primary/secondary. If I wait for next year, I could to the Primary and Secondary degree at Monash. I like the idea of being qualified for p-12 but would mean I waste the second half of this year. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Finish you teaching course and consider the following.

The very best thing you can do is go and get a job outside of education for at least a couple of years. You will grow as a person and see and experience things you will never encounter in a school. If you decide to go into teaching later, then this experience will give you an advantage over other applicants for a position. I can tell you that your work experience is something that is highly valued by your potential employer.

When you begin teaching you will have more confidence and you can advise your students about a wider range of things compared to teachers who went to primary school, secondary school, university and back into a school. All their work experience is based on what it’s like being at school. I am continually surprised by how blinkered a view some teachers have on education and the wide world.

Equal pay for women in teaching is great thing.

You will never get rich on a teachers wage. If you compare it to what a traffic stopper with a lolly pop gets to a fully qualified and very experienced teacher, the lolly pop person gets more and that’s without any overtime. An electrician gets one and a half times more when they become fully qualified than what a teacher on the highest pay scale gets. The electricians wage goes up from there and they can work overtime if you want/need to.

To be honest I can’t understand why so many careers teachers continually recommend students to continue on to Uni when you can earn a hell of a lot more doing a trade. It can only be that their narrow view of education and careers is because that’s all they have experienced. School, school, school and school.

A lot of trades people earn a hell of a lot more than people with a degree. By the time they finish their apprenticeship they are around $250,000 better of due to wages and HECS fees and they won’t spend the next 10-15 years paying off their debt. While you are saving for a house they will be paying off their holiday house. If you don’t believe me either check the wage scales for an A Grade Electrician and an Electrical Engineer or the next time you get your tax done ask the accountant. Electricians earn more.

Holidays are good but there will be times when all you will do is sleep and rest or get sick and recover. All bookings for planes, accommodation, tours etc. increase during school holidays, even petrol goes up. So your holidays will always be more expensive than for non teachers.

If you are thinking about maybe moving out of the big city, there are a lot more primary schools than secondary schools in the country. Men in primary schools are in short supply and you will gain promotion quicker.

There will be countless hours outside of normal school time where you will be working at home and you don’t get paid for that work. You don’t get paid for staying late for parent teacher nights. If you work in the State System a lot of times you don’t even get fed between school and PTN.

If you work in the Private System then you can be required to supervise sport on a Saturday. If you are a PE Teachers you most certainly will have to do that (and you don’t get paid for this). Some parents will want their pound of flesh (from you) if their child isn’t achieving outstanding results, even if their child is thick as a brick. If they need discipline to get them on track, some parents will be great while others make life difficult through complaints and the occasional threats that they feel their “elevated position” in life makes them entitled to do.

Don’t take any notice of what other teachers say about students. They can be completely different for you. Don’t take others teachers opinions into your classes, make your own from what you experience.

Don’t try to be friends with your students, you are there to be a teacher. Start the beginning of the year as a dictator, whatever you say goes and stick to it. The students will want to find out what your limits are and will try a lot of things to do so. Stick to your guns and enforce everything you want to have happen in your class. As the year progresses and you get to know your students you can ease up and will find that you will establish long and lasting relationships with them.

If you try to be friends with your students, they will chew you up and spit you out and no matter how hard you try, you will never get your classroom control back.

Make it a priority to get to know your students and the only way you can do that is by spending individual time with each and every one of them. You should do that all throughout the year. every year. Realistically you only have a minute or two in a class to do this and some students will take up more than this if they need help, but you should still make it a priority to spend time with every student in your class over the week. Otherwise you won’t have a clue how they are progressing and you won’t establish a connection with them.

Work on your acting skills they come in handy, but don’t belittle the kids or you will lose them very quickly.

Get used to boring and mind numbing meetings, there will be plenty over the years and at times you will think, why didn’t they just email us about this.

There are great Principals who will want to make you a better teacher and if they do you are lucky, because isn’t that what we all aim for, to be as good as we can be. The other aspect is the better you are at teaching the better your student’s results will be.

There are Principals who got there but shouldn’t be there and wallow along and don’t achieve anything and then there are the ones who want control over everything. They have an idea on what needs to be done but have no leadership skills, you won’t enjoy your time there so find another school asap.

If you are lucky enough to get a Principal who teaches, then at least you know they are experiencing the same sort of issues you are and they won't be some distant person who has forgotten what it is like in the classroom. They will have a far better handle on what is going on than someone sitting in their office.

Teaching can be a bit like groundhog day. You repeat everything year in year out, with the only difference being your students. You never seem to completely finish anything. You will have to learn to be creative in your teaching and continually evolve in how and what you teach. After a few years doing the same things over and over and over it will become very boring, you will lose interest and so will your students.

There are plenty of opportunities to work in other areas that you might have an interest in whether that be sport, debating, chess club, productions, clubs, athletics, music club, radio station etc. It is rewarding and will give you an entirely different view of students personalities, skills and abilities outside the classroom. It is a very rewarding experience.

Teaching despite all its drawbacks, it is a great career with many rewards. It is surprising how often I get asked out of the blue, (once in Broome and another time in Broken Hill) and all over the place in Melbourne, “did you used to teach at ……….”
One of my friends met one of his former students in Russia.

I still keep in contact with students I taught 30 years ago.

If you really want to get a job then Maths and Science jobs are there. If you want to be certain of getting a job become a Technology Teacher there is a huge shortage of teachers in that area, only 2% of teachers are qualified in that area. You will work a lot harder in class than other teachers but spend a lot less time on work at home. With STEM becoming a big thing there will be plenty of jobs there now and well into the future.

I have always found that 99.9% of teachers are great to work with. Outside in industry, it isn’t always so.

Your first year will be really hard but it does get easier as you accumulate experience, teaching material and your students get to know you.
Goodluck!
 
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To be honest I can’t understand why so many careers teachers continually recommend students to continue on to Uni when you can earn a hell of a lot more doing a trade. It can only be that their narrow view of education and careers is because that’s all they have experienced. School, school, school and school.
Same can be said for career politicians & education department workers. They're bred for those job, straight into the public sector from uni, rarely have experience elsewhere. From their experience, university is a job factory. "It worked for me and people I know." Survivorship bias is still the basis of careers education. Teachers breed more teachers, farmers breed farmers, builders builders etc.

But it's a broader cultural problem too, this infatuation with university pathways. Parents still think that Year 12 scores are super important. Even in families where there's not a history of university attendance. In truth the scores are simply not important at all, beyond immediate course entry. A minority of university graduates each year are straight-outta-highschool, same-degree-that-I-started too. People change their career pathways as they grow and explore new things. It's a rite of passage to go to uni but not many people can justify why.

My unrefined thought are: our economy is built on people purchasing s**t they don't need, education industry is no exception.

If we wanted meaningful careers education in schools, we'd need to have more serious conversations about the point of education in general. Cos despite all the 'declarations', our country in practice treats education more as an economic tool than a means for individuals pursuing meaningful lives.
 

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THE PRINCIPAL
Leaps tall buildings in a single bound,
Is more powerful than a locomotive
Is faster than a speeding bullet,
Walks on water,
Gives advice to God.

THE ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL
Leaps short building with a single bound,
Is more powerful than a shunting engine,
Is just as fast as a speeding bullet,
Walks on water if sea is calm,
Talks with God.

EXPERIENCED TEACHER
Leaps short buildings with a running start in favourable winds,
Is almost as powerful as a shunting engine,
Is almost as fast as a speeding bullet,
Walks on water in indoor swimming pools,
Talks with God if special request in approved.

TEACHER IN FOURTH YEAR OUT
Barely clears sports equipment shed,
Does a tug of war with a locomotive,
Can fire a speeding bullet,
Swims well,
Is occasionally addressed by God.

TEACHER IN THIRD YEAR OUT
Makes high marks on walls when trying to clear buildings,
Differentiates between locomotive and guard’s van,
Can sometimes handle gun without hurting self,
Dog paddles,
Talks to animals.

TEACHER IN SECOND YEAR OUT
Runs into buildings,
Recognises locomotives two times out of three,
Is not issued with ammunition,
Can stay afloat with a life jacket,
Talks to walls.

TEACHER IN FIRST YEAR OUT
Falls over doorsteps when trying to enter buildings,
Says, “Look at the choo choo,”
Wets self with water pistol,
Plays in mud puddles,
Mumbles to self.

BUSINESS MANAGER
Lifts tall buildings and walks under them,
Kicks locomotives off the tracks,
Catches speeding bullets with their teeth,
Freezes water with a single glance,
IS GOD!
 
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Ducky Tie

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I’m a bit confused about the difference between History and Humanities in terms of what they qualify you to teach. I’ve got an offer to do the postgrad saying I can do two of History, Humanities or Media Studies.

If I do History as a teaching area, does that only qualify my to teach VCE history or is there some overlap between the two teaching areas?

Sorry for the dumb question.
 
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I’m a bit confused about the difference between History and Humanities in terms of what they qualify you to teach. I’ve got an offer to do the postgrad saying I can do two of History, Humanities or Media Studies.

If I do History as a teaching area, does that only qualify my to teach VCE history or is there some overlap between the two teaching areas?

Sorry for the dumb question.
You have two "sets" of curriculum - The Vic Curriculum (Foundation - Year 10) and VCE (Years 11 and 12).

These are the study areas for The Vic Curriculum for Humanities:

viccurric.PNG


Schools will have their own approach to teaching these study areas. With either History or Humanities as a method, you would be qualified to teach any of these study areas at Years 7-10.

These are the study areas for VCE for Humanities:

vce.PNG

With a History method, you would be "qualified" to teach 21st Century History and Global Empires (the two History VCE subjects) - however you may be asked to teach some of the other subjects - assuming you had had some exposure to them in your undergrad.

With a Humanities method, you would be "qualified" to teach any of these subjects - a dedicated 'History' teacher may be preferred by some schools to teach VCE History over a teacher with a generalist Humanities method - however - it depends on other factors such as timetabling and other subject loads.

Media Studies is a totally different domain (arts). Assuming this is something you want to teach, it can be advantageous to have two different methods - particularly as you could then teach across multiple domains - which is good for job flexibility etc.

However, I would recommend this only in the situation where you would enjoy teaching both methods, as you may find yourself losing classes in humanities to teach Media classes - if required by the school.
 

Ducky Tie

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You have two "sets" of curriculum - The Vic Curriculum (Foundation - Year 10) and VCE (Years 11 and 12).

These are the study areas for The Vic Curriculum for Humanities:

View attachment 877571

Schools will have their own approach to teaching these study areas. With either History or Humanities as a method, you would be qualified to teach any of these study areas at Years 7-10.

These are the study areas for VCE for Humanities:

View attachment 877576
With a History method, you would be "qualified" to teach 21st Century History and Global Empires (the two History VCE subjects) - however you may be asked to teach some of the other subjects - assuming you had had some exposure to them in your undergrad.

With a Humanities method, you would be "qualified" to teach any of these subjects - a dedicated 'History' teacher may be preferred by some schools to teach VCE History over a teacher with a generalist Humanities method - however - it depends on other factors such as timetabling and other subject loads.

Media Studies is a totally different domain (arts). Assuming this is something you want to teach, it can be advantageous to have two different methods - particularly as you could then teach across multiple domains - which is good for job flexibility etc.

However, I would recommend this only in the situation where you would enjoy teaching both methods, as you may find yourself losing classes in humanities to teach Media classes - if required by the school.
Thanks for that. I’ll definitely do Humanities then, with the extra VCE options it gives.

I’m not that keen on Media Studies but is there that much point in doing History? If Humanities allows me to teach VCE history anyway (even if it takes some time to get a VCE spot), would having Media as one of my two areas improve my job prospects initially?
 

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* Gladys. Easing back into things my arse. She's just gone from 0 to 100 in record time!

Should have made all kids go back in one week, not next Monday. Once again, I am changing my plans at the whim of someone who looks like a discount Squidwad.

Please NSW, do not vote for this idiot again. Especially if you know or love a teacher.

Rant over.

Also, now you know how much you're worth in the world of the Liberal Party of Australia. Don't become a teacher if you don't enjoy being ****ed up the arse with barbed wire.

now waits for admins to delete or heavily censor the post. :p
 

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“I’ve been quietly having a gibe at all of my state colleagues who have their borders shut. NSW didn’t, Victoria didn’t,” Ms Berejiklian

I'd like to shoot her over a border. Preferably into North Korea.

Seriously, I know how we had two bowls of s**t to vote for in the previous state election, but man, we didn't realise this bowl of s**t had a nasty aftertaste.
 
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Thanks for that. I’ll definitely do Humanities then, with the extra VCE options it gives.

I’m not that keen on Media Studies but is there that much point in doing History?
Not really imo. You may give you more of a chance of VCE History position early on. But eventually, it doesn't really matter in the long run. Experience and timetabling take priority.
If Humanities allows me to teach VCE history anyway (even if it takes some time to get a VCE spot), would having Media as one of my two areas improve my job prospects initially?
It would mean that you could apply for Media Studies / VCE Media positions - so yes. However, as mentioned, depending on the school, it could result in you also losing some Hums/History classes if the school needs you to teach Media.

I would recommend reading the Media Studies study design and - if possible - getting/borrowing a copy of the VCE Media Textbook. That will give you an idea of what you will be teaching. It helped me when I was narrowing down which methods to choose and which to avoid.
 
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