Secondary Thinking about becoming a teacher

[HulkSmash]

I know this thread is about becoming a teacher, but after the year I've had and issues I've faced at my new school, I am off on ongoing sick leave and thinking of leaving. Anyone know of any professions where my skills are useful? I don't particularly want to retrain again to the same extent as I did to become a teacher.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

I know this thread is about becoming a teacher, but after the year I've had and issues I've faced at my new school, I am off on ongoing sick leave and thinking of leaving. Anyone know of any professions where my skills are useful? I don't particularly want to retrain again to the same extent as I did to become a teacher.

It's done me in. I hated it. There were some good things such as no travel time. Hearing a parent, when the student hadn't switched off their mic say, "I can see what your teacher was talking about last year, you are really lazy".
I'm moving to retired mode. Give me a while and I can tell you all about it.
Friends who have left teaching seem to have been successful in a wide range of careers. Just about anything that requires communication skills is a good fit for an ex-teacher. Teachers are organised and are very adaptable to change. One of my friends left some time ago, she is now a senior executive officer in the public service earning twice my wage.
Another friend now heads a real estate office. Teacher's skills are a marketable commodity and widely sought after.
Can you apply for leave without pay and test the market?
I worked with someone who did that and after a year away he came back to teaching and told me that it was a much better job than he realised, it was just that he didn't have anything to compare it to. That might be a path for you to follow. Whatever you do, find a job you like doing. 40 odd years of doing something you don't like would be torture. Good luck.

 

[AngryRanga]

Most course guidance stuff I've found is for current students only. And my questions are really unique to what I've studied, so I'm finding it hard to derive any value from the generic course information. Found a number for UniMelb which I'll give a crack tomorrow.

From what I gather, because my undergraduate degree doesn't relate to what I want to teach at Secondary level, I need to do another undergraduate (probably Arts) and do the proper major/minors as per the approved learning areas. Then do the Master of Teaching. By then I'll be about 106 years old, but such is life.

My specialisation from past studies is PE. For the other, I'm looking at English/Hums/Legal.

Does mismatching my specialisation (PE/English) in two oversaturated areas just make me extremely unemployable?

The alternatives being to do PE/Health, or ignore PE and do English and either Hums or Legal.

I've already failed to get employed once out of Uni, so this is a pretty primary concern for me. Any advice appreciated on how to maximise employability (for someone with no aptitude for math/science).

 

[superfraser]

I'm making an assumption that you're very qualified in PE and not very qualified (but still qualified) as an English teacher.

English head of departments won't want to add a 'PE teacher' to their team, they'd chase more qualified English teachers (Literature majors).

Hums is a dumping ground. Primarily History teachers who only want to teach History but are asked to teach Geography, Civics and Citizenship, Business and Economics, and History.

If employability is your primary objective, I'd suggest PE / English but target jobs in VCAL / VCAL Literacy. Don't worry about VCAL being scrapped in a few years. Literacy Applied Learning pathways will still exist.

I also wouldn't worry about the oversaturation of teachers. Get CRT work, build strong relationships with kids, take ownership of all classes and put effort in, and you'll get snapped up quickly.

 

[Suspense]

My specialisation from past studies is PE. For the other, I'm looking at English/Hums/Legal.

Does mismatching my specialisation (PE/English) in two oversaturated areas just make me extremely unemployable?

The alternatives being to do PE/Health, or ignore PE and do English and either Hums or Legal.

I've already failed to get employed once out of Uni, so this is a pretty primary concern for me. Any advice appreciated on how to maximise employability (for someone with no aptitude for math/science).

I would not call English oversaturated. Yes, there are a lot of English Teachers - but there are always a lot of English classes. If you have done a TESOL course or had any experience teaching English as a second language, this is also a great addition for employability in this area.

PE is oversaturated but PE roles still do come up quite regularly (PE teachers often go into leadership roles) and PE/English gives pretty good flexibility. You need to be specifically PE trained to be permitted to teach PE classes - whereas you don't need that to teach Health/Legal/Hums (which I assume you have at least a minor in). So even if you don't have Health/Legal/Hums as one of your chosen methods, still make a mention of it on your resume/interviews. At 7-10 level (in public at least), schools are often just looking for someone suitably qualified to fill a role.

In addition to superfraser's good advice:

• Make a good impression at your placement schools
• Take ownership of your classes on your last few placements - collect evidence to show you have the capacity to develop resources, plan lessons, undertake formative/summative assessment, feedback from mentor teacher/students
• Consider teaching outer suburbs/rural initially. Once you have 6 months to a year experience, you will have plenty of evidence of your teaching. You will also be cheap $$$ - which schools love.

 

[chapel]

Tough career choice.

 

[indoistriku]

I'm making an assumption that you're very qualified in PE and not very qualified (but still qualified) as an English teacher.

English head of departments won't want to add a 'PE teacher' to their team, they'd chase more qualified English teachers (Literature majors).

Hums is a dumping ground. Primarily History teachers who only want to teach History but are asked to teach Geography, Civics and Citizenship, Business and Economics, and History.

If employability is your primary objective, I'd suggest PE / English but target jobs in VCAL / VCAL Literacy. Don't worry about VCAL being scrapped in a few years. Literacy Applied Learning pathways will still exist.

I also wouldn't worry about the oversaturation of teachers. Get CRT work, build strong relationships with kids, take ownership of all classes and put effort in, and you'll get snapped up quickly.

I'll add onto this by saying something that many of you may be already aware of; there are well paid positions aplenty in the outback in all states (other than Vic and Tas). Some of those locations are extremely remote and would require serious forethought before moving there. Others are well paid and only semi-isolated, like schools in Broome and other outback cities. If you're willing to do that for a few years, you'll be compensated handsomely, will almost certainly get a full-time job right out the door, and will be likely be given a reserved position in a capital city school after the completion of three years of service in a remote school. Also, state governments will also likely provide housing subsidies for you and any dependents.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

I was going through all the stuff I assembled over the years now that I will be officially retired in a couple of weeks. I came across this report comment bank. I don't know if you will find it useful, but I would believe you will find it interesting.

 

[pepsi]

Congratulations CliffMcTainshaw, I hope that whatever you have planned next is enjoyable!

 

[Jack Richards]

Anyone thought about or done tutoring on the side?

Contemplating doing it as a cashie but not sure what I should charge per hour.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Anyone thought about or done tutoring on the side?

Contemplating doing it as a cashie but not sure what I should charge per hour.

Depends on what subject you will be tutoring and what year level. Lower than VCE anywhere between $30 to $50 an hour. VCE $50 to $100. This all depends on your subject and how many nearby people offer tutoring services. Obviously if there are a lot of competing people, to get work you might have lower your fee. If you are tutoring small groups of kids you charge lower hourly rates. If you turn out to be really good and your subject is something like Physics or Specialist Maths then $150 is achievable. There is a woman in the Eastern Suburbs who does group coaching of Maths and Science at VCE level. She has her house fitted out with a lecture theatre and takes about 35 kids at a time for an hour. I believe she charges around $40. She does multiple sessions every day and makes a mind boggling amount of money (Do the maths 5x2 groups week days. 1x3 groups on Saturdays, each with 35 kids). She has so many people dropping off and picking their kids that it creates traffic problems and after complaints by neighbours she now employs a number of traffic wardens to make sure that the traffic is controlled and doesn't create problems for her neighbours. Can be a very lucrative sideline to teaching or a business on its own. Helped me to pay off the house much quicker and have some holidays.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Hey everyone,

Sorry to hijack this conversation by any chance

I am 19 years old and didn't choose to go the ATAR route through school as much as I wished I did now and I am kinda lost in life atm.

I plan to go to uni when I'm in my 20s so I can mature before I make that step.

I have always wanted to be a teacher but didn't know if what levels I wanted to teach given I would probably study P.E or something like that.

However I do understand that if I did do primary it would be hard to be a Primary P.E Teacher given the lack of them.

For anyone who has experience teaching, Is primary or secondary teaching easier to teach and why?

Thanks everyone

 

[Shane Sheridan]

Hey everyone,

Sorry to hijack this conversation by any chance

I am 19 years old and didn't choose to go the ATAR route through school as much as I wished I did now and I am kinda lost in life atm.

I plan to go to uni when I'm in my 20s so I can mature before I make that step.

I have always wanted to be a teacher but didn't know if what levels I wanted to teach given I would probably study P.E or something like that.

However I do understand that if I did do primary it would be hard to be a Primary P.E Teacher given the lack of them.

For anyone who has experience teaching, Is primary or secondary teaching easier to teach and why?

Thanks everyone

Horses for courses. I teach High School and teaching Primary aged kids would be my worst nightmare. Many Primary teachers would be the opposite of myself. PE teacher by the way.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Horses for courses. I teach High School and teaching Primary aged kids would be my worst nightmare. Many Primary teachers would be the opposite of myself. PE teacher by the way.

Haha

How long have you been a High School PE teacher for? Do you enjoy your job and all that?

 

[Shane Sheridan]

25 years, best job in the world. Fortunate that I specialise, 16 of my 20 lessons per week are footy. Have over my career taught photography, HAAS, English and Science to make up a timetable. Majority of time I'm outdoors, classroom lessons are a nice break. Through/for work have travelled to every state bar Tasmania, travelled to NZ and also been able to spend some time in a College Football Department in the US racking up the PD hours. Like most of the population 98% of kids are great, 2% can be tolerable or absolute pains in the backside. Good holidays, well paid.
Been in the public system for my whole career.

 

[Jack Richards]

I have always wanted to be a teacher but didn't know if what levels I wanted to teach given I would probably study P.E or something like that.

Seriously there is a glut of PE teachers.

IMO go generalist primary or specialise in a secondary field like science or maths as a secondary teacher.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

25 years, best job in the world. Fortunate that I specialise, 16 of my 20 lessons per week are footy. Have over my career taught photography, HAAS, English and Science to make up a timetable. Majority of time I'm outdoors, classroom lessons are a nice break. Through/for work have travelled to every state bar Tasmania, travelled to NZ and also been able to spend some time in a College Football Department in the US racking up the PD hours. Like most of the population 98% of kids are great, 2% can be tolerable or absolute pains in the backside. Good holidays, well paid.
Been in the public system for my whole career.

Wow that's so cool.

Don't mind me asking but what is the workload like though at High School level cause I was thinking of doing HS level but I heard by teachers the workload outside of the class is quite high.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Seriously there is a glut of PE teachers.

IMO go generalist primary or specialise in a secondary field like science or maths as a secondary teacher.

If only I was smarter at maths or science

Thanks for the advice anyway

 

[Jack Richards]

If only I was smarter at maths or science

Thanks for the advice anyway

Looking at it, my post came off as narky and negative which wasnt my intention.

PE is just one of those positions that most pre-service teachers want to teach. When I studied, the physical Ed units in our 3rd and 4th year were full. We had CRTs that were PE trained coming in doing classroom positions that were not able to get a contract.

Its a supply/demand situation as many schools only have 1-2 max.

If you can teach humanities or something else like Shane Sheridan said, it can make you stand out.

Workload in secondary and primary are quite high but if you can time manage, it shouldn't be too hard to get most done during the week.

 

[Shane Sheridan]

Wow that's so cool.

Don't mind me asking but what is the workload like though at High School level cause I was thinking of doing HS level but I heard by teachers the workload outside of the class is quite high.

Nowhere near what a Primary teachers workload is. As opposed to a classroom MESS teacher less marking, assignment preparation, however that is offset by out of hours coaching/games/carnivals. Report time generally speaking have to do more classes than MESS teachers due to only having kids for 2 lessons per week as opposed to 4. Lesson plans go out the window, however you will have to write them during pracs, great idea to keep them so you can refer to them during early years of teaching. Accountability is a must re planning documents, curriculum and assessments, however schools department should have them already done, it's just a matter of the department updating and modifying as you go.
Early years are tough and a lot of time needed, but once you're set, you're set.
Select maths or science as a minor, will give you the opportunity to get your foot in the door at more schools. My first job was due to me saying I was able to teach photography, was off the basis of doing Yr9 Photography while at high school.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Nowhere near what a Primary teachers workload is. As opposed to a classroom MESS teacher less marking, assignment preparation, however that is offset by out of hours coaching/games/carnivals. Report time generally speaking have to do more classes than MESS teachers due to only having kids for 2 lessons per week as opposed to 4. Lesson plans go out the window, however you will have to write them during pracs, great idea to keep them so you can refer to them during early years of teaching. Accountability is a must re planning documents, curriculum and assessments, however schools department should have them already done, it's just a matter of the department updating and modifying as you go.
Early years are tough and a lot of time needed, but once you're set, you're set.
Select maths or science as a minor, will give you the opportunity to get your foot in the door at more schools. My first job was due to me saying I was able to teach photography, was off the basis of doing Yr9 Photography while at high school.

Okay then that seems alright cause I was more worried about the work-load after the school hours have finished with for the day.

Another question as well but is it true to that I should start my teaching career in the rural areas before finding jobs in the city due to the job market and all that.

 

[Shane Sheridan]

Okay then that seems alright cause I was more worried about the work-load after the school hours have finished with for the day.

Another question as well but is it true to that I should start as a teacher in the rural areas before finding jobs in the city due to the job market and all that.

Sorry, can't help you with that one. In WA I wouldn't recommend it if your end goal is to eventually get a job in the city. Most schools are now Independent, which means the school appoints the staff rather than central office which used to happen in the past. Each year in the bush you would rack up x amount of transfer points, when a position came up, person with most points got the job. Could end up in a shitty wheatbelt town for th enext 10 years. Transfer points are worth nothing now, jobs are given to the staff the admin know - relief teachers, teachers from the schools that they know, relatives of current staff. 2 in our department are there due to doing their prac here, 1 of them was mostly science for his first few years, all about getting your foot in the door. If you're out in the country you're out of sight out of mind. A great shame because teaching in the bush is brilliant. My first 4 years were in a little town in the Pilbara, best years of my life.
No idea how the system works where you are.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Sorry, can't help you with that one. In WA I wouldn't recommend it if your end goal is to eventually get a job in the city. Most schools are now Independent, which means the school appoints the staff rather than central office which used to happen in the past. Each year in the bush you would rack up x amount of transfer points, when a position came up, person with most points got the job. Could end up in a shitty wheatbelt town for th enext 10 years. Transfer points are worth nothing now, jobs are given to the staff the admin know - relief teachers, teachers from the schools that they know, relatives of current staff. 2 in our department are there due to doing their prac here, 1 of them was mostly science for his first few years, all about getting your foot in the door. If you're out in the country you're out of sight out of mind. A great shame because teaching in the bush is brilliant. My first 4 years were in a little town in the Pilbara, best years of my life.
No idea how the system works where you are.

Oh I see, so it's basically just "people you know" these days and just luck in general. That sucks but hey it's not the end of the world.

Thanks for your help anyway, it sounds like a cool experience either way teaching and I have some food for thought now.

Thank-you for all of the people on here who are teachers for helping us students like me btw as well

 

[Jack Richards]

Sorry, can't help you with that one. In WA I wouldn't recommend it if your end goal is to eventually get a job in the city. Most schools are now Independent, which means the school appoints the staff rather than central office which used to happen in the past. Each year in the bush you would rack up x amount of transfer points, when a position came up, person with most points got the job. Could end up in a shitty wheatbelt town for th enext 10 years. Transfer points are worth nothing now, jobs are given to the staff the admin know - relief teachers, teachers from the schools that they know, relatives of current staff. 2 in our department are there due to doing their prac here, 1 of them was mostly science for his first few years, all about getting your foot in the door. If you're out in the country you're out of sight out of mind. A great shame because teaching in the bush is brilliant. My first 4 years were in a little town in the Pilbara, best years of my life.
No idea how the system works where you are.

Sucks that department dont allocate teachers to jobs nowadays.

So many positions advertised and interviews early on for jobs already with people in it.

I would have gladly jumped at a rural one if it wasn't for my wife (fiancee at the time) not prepared to be more than 40mins drive away from her parents. Downside to rural is that positions are generally fixed term as they depend on student numbers.

 

[AngryRanga]

Hey everyone,

Sorry to hijack this conversation by any chance

I am 19 years old and didn't choose to go the ATAR route through school as much as I wished I did now and I am kinda lost in life atm.

I plan to go to uni when I'm in my 20s so I can mature before I make that step.

I have always wanted to be a teacher but didn't know if what levels I wanted to teach given I would probably study P.E or something like that.

However I do understand that if I did do primary it would be hard to be a Primary P.E Teacher given the lack of them.

For anyone who has experience teaching, Is primary or secondary teaching easier to teach and why?

Thanks everyone

If you've got any life experiences working with kids I'd base it on that as well. For example, I factored in the interactions I'd had with younger and older kids when coaching sport at local clubs.