Secondary Thinking about becoming a teacher

[Forward Press]

Is 'ongoing' meaning permanent positions?

If so, they are easily available if you move to a low demand regional or remote area (eg in WA that would be anywhere more than 100kms or so from Perth city and not in the southwest). But as JR pointed out, if you have a family and roots and commitments in the city, this is not a reasonable opportunity.

 

[Jack Richards]

Let's put this into perspective. I live 60km south east of Melbourne CBD right on the urban fringe. I am prepared to travel up to 50km radius from where I live (depending on travel time course as a good run further away from the city makes it about 42mins).

On the government recruitment portal 25 jobs came up overnight in the South East Melbourne of those, only 3 were ongoing. That's horribly out of proportion. 9/10 prins are fearful of a shortage next year but yet the lack of ongoing is a cause of this. I know student numbers impact in rural schools, but its also a try before you buy system. Try out a teacher for a year, if you don't like them or think they aren't great then give the flick.

Also the 7 year maternity leave needs to be reduced greatly. One teacher at our school just went to maternity leave and she said is taking full 7 years and then won't come back (she hasn't told prin this).

I am in a horrible situation that many face this year (fixed contract) but I am lucky enough to have an ongoing position at another school (so on LWOP), however it is a toxic school in my eyes (physical assaults from kids, spitting, swearing and lack of leadership support). They still havent filled positions from end of last year and this year and lost another 9 teachers which haven't been filled as no one applied.

CRTs also told me while I was there last year, that they are requesting to not go back to the school when getting called for jobs.

Anyway, contracts aren't sustainable long term. Applying for jobs or battling it out if one comes up at your school but having to fight for it against 2-8+ more at the same school. How are grads, those with mortgages and years experience expected to survive?

I have 10years experience and still getting knock backs. I've been told by my previous AP I am too expensive and schools look at their budget and can get a grad and mould them at 70-80k. Currently my prin hopes to keep all of us but is waiting on the teachers on leave to get back to him about their intentions (1 has got another year of maternity leave making it 7 years in total she has taken). So now its a total of 6 unknowns and 8 of us waiting.

I know this is a whinge post, but it gets on my nerves hearing there is a shortage but unless the government implement a state wide government system (where government place you at a school they need filling) and not a privatise model (where Prins choose), you will see more and more teachers leave the system.

For me, if I have to go back to the toxic school, I wont last and will take work cover if I get hit from a student again. I was coming home drained, bruised and battered daily.

 

[Senor M]

I am in a horrible situation that many face this year (fixed contract) but I am lucky enough to have an ongoing position at another school (so on LWOP), however it is a toxic school in my eyes (physical assaults from kids, spitting, swearing and lack of leadership support). They still havent filled positions from end of last year and this year and lost another 9 teachers which haven't been filled as no one applied.

I don't mean to sound too critical, but aren't you amplifying the issue by holding onto an ongoing position at a school you have no intention on returning to?

 

[Jack Richards]

I don't mean to sound too critical, but aren't you amplifying the issue by holding onto an ongoing position at a school you have no intention on returning to?

I'm not going to give it up and will go back at the end of the year if I can't get ongoing elsewhere

 

[Senor M]

I'm not going to give it up and will go back at the end of the year if I can't get ongoing elsewhere

So there’s someone at your old school on a contract that’s waiting on your decision to leave before they can be converted to ongoing?

Do you see where I’m coming from?

 

[catters_28]

Yes the above poster made a good point but clearly the irony is lost on him.

I finally got myself a permanent position for next year. Got it by going private. Offered me ongoing straight away. Never dealing with the cooked public system ever again.

 

[Jack Richards]

Yes the above poster made a good point but clearly the irony is lost on him.

I finally got myself a permanent position for next year. Got it by going private. Offered me ongoing straight away. Never dealing with the cooked public system ever again.

My statement is mostly around the amount of Fixed Term vs Ongoing available. I have no issue in people taking leave. I just don't believe there are that many people taking leave compared to school doing a 'try before you buy' 12 month contracts.

Yes I've taken a 12month contract and waiting to hear back. Yes someone might be in my role (doubtful as they had 8 position they haven't filled all year).

Congrats getting ongoing BTW. The public system is cooked in this regard. They need to go back to a centralised system where if you want to transfer you can be placed where they need within a certain distance of where you live.

Me personally I am prepared to travel as a far as Warragul/Drouin in the south east (I live in Casey Shire). So up to an hour.

Hoping that the further that way less competition that far up.

 

[Jack Richards]

So 4 interviews for ongoing and 4 rejections. Even going 100km out of Melbourne and I missed out.

It's taking It's toll on me mentally and starting a rift with my wife. I was chatting to a teacher as we waited for a tour at a school in Cranbourne. She was up to her 7th contract and in the same boat (sick of rejections). She was just wanting permanent so she can get a mortgage and start a family.

Plenty of Fixed Term out there. Just not as many ongoing

 

[Forward Press]

So 4 interviews for ongoing and 4 rejections. Even going 100km out of Melbourne and I missed out.

It's taking It's toll on me mentally and starting a rift with my wife. I was chatting to a teacher as we waited for a tour at a school in Cranbourne. She was up to her 7th contract and in the same boat (sick of rejections). She was just wanting permanent so she can get a mortgage and start a family.

Plenty of Fixed Term out there. Just not as many ongoing

If it's any consolation it took me until my 6th and far too many interviews and rejections.

Banks were happy to lend to me when I was fixed term, they are generally quite understanding of the teacher's predicament.

 

[Jack Richards]

If it's any consolation it took me until my 6th and far too many interviews and rejections.

Banks were happy to lend to me when I was fixed term, they are generally quite understanding of the teacher's predicament.

Yea dont think they will be understanding with a mortgage as we are up to renewing our repayments apparently as we are just fixed our repayment that was half fixed and half variable.

Living in near the Shire of Casey and travelling radius is up to 30km-50km. The LS at my school said she would do some interview prac with me next term.

 

[matty lloyd the champ]

So 4 interviews for ongoing and 4 rejections. Even going 100km out of Melbourne and I missed out.

It's taking It's toll on me mentally and starting a rift with my wife. I was chatting to a teacher as we waited for a tour at a school in Cranbourne. She was up to her 7th contract and in the same boat (sick of rejections). She was just wanting permanent so she can get a mortgage and start a family.

Plenty of Fixed Term out there. Just not as many ongoing

Out of curiosity, what are your methods? I know that at my current school in the North and my old school out west, it has been near impossible to get maths or science teachers.

 

[Jack Richards]

Out of curiosity, what are your methods? I know that at my current school in the North and my old school out west, it has been near impossible to get maths or science teachers.

Primary teaching

 

[Kwality]

Yea dont think they will be understanding with a mortgage as we are up to renewing our repayments apparently as we are just fixed our repayment that was half fixed and half variable.

Living in near the Shire of Casey and travelling radius is up to 30km-50km. The LS at my school said she would do some interview prac with me next term.

Does the Union not provide such a service ? With so many teachers locked out of permanent employment, I'd be giving them a call.

 

[Hamez]

Jack Richards how'd you go with your job search?

 

[CrowToon]

Ongoing jobs are being thrown out to just about anyone these days. Can't imagine too many don't have it unless they were unwilling to change schools.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Ongoing jobs are being thrown out to just about anyone these days. Can't imagine too many don't have it unless they were unwilling to change schools.

Lol, they really aren't.
The industry is contract based. A good school will renew the contract each year, but there's still a great deal of uncertainty for teachers

 

[matty lloyd the champ]

If you can fog up a mirror, you pretty much get hired these days. In my school this year, we've lost half the maths department amongst many others.

Most schools are experiencing large staff turnover. Many oldies have had enough after covid and dealing with the ramifications of remote learning on student behaviour. Internationals are not hitting the pre covid numbers either. I suspect that universities are also not churning out graduates at the same rate as before.

The one positive post covid is that if you want to move schools or am looking for secure employment, now is as good as time as ever to do so.

 

[CrowToon]

Lol, they really aren't.
The industry is contract based. A good school will renew the contract each year, but there's still a great deal of uncertainty for teachers

Buddy this isn't 2019. Seriously schools can't get enough staff. I know several who were on contracts take the opportunity to say 'make me ongoing or I'm out' and the Prin has rolled over. It's a great time to get ongoing and, if you want to, shift schools.

 

[matty lloyd the champ]

Buddy this isn't 2019. Seriously schools can't get enough staff. I know several who were on contracts take the opportunity to say 'make me ongoing or I'm out' and the Prin has rolled over. It's a great time to get ongoing and, if you want to, shift schools.

Especially if you are willing to teach at a low socioeconomic school. They are handing ongoing positions out like candy as it is the only way to get any interest these days.

My school that I taught at last year (low socioeconomic, western suburbs of Melbourne), I know for a fact that for the handful of ongoing maths positions they have advertised, they received maybe 2 or 3 applications max for each.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Buddy this isn't 2019. Seriously schools can't get enough staff. I know several who were on contracts take the opportunity to say 'make me ongoing or I'm out' and the Prin has rolled over. It's a great time to get ongoing and, if you want to, shift schools.

May be the case for secondary. Primary definitely does not have the ongoing positions

 

[bUCKET__]

May be the case for secondary. Primary definitely does not have the ongoing positions

definitely the case: with primary positions more dependent upon enrolment numbers than duties, particularly when contrasted with specialised secondary subjects

that said, schools are working around this shortage too. I've heard of a few primary schools that've made sure that the ongoing positions they needed filling were externally advertised as leadership positions. This has helped narrow the field. My partner might've walked into one such position guess that some internal candidates who would otherwise be promoted are missing out out with this approach.

it'll be a good year to be a casual teacher next year too, I reckon.

 

[Jack Richards]

Jack Richards how'd you go with your job search?

CrowToon I am still yet to get it.

I have been given another year where I am and then will have to go back if I can't find ongoing.

Feedback I got when interviewing for the ongoing internal positions was that I didn't sound passionate enough and didnt explain the wholistic approach to professional learning and obsevations and how it improved my approach (as such based on that and application I wasnt top 4 out of the 6 that applied).

My prin won't be happy, but I will keep looking for ongoing throughout the year.

 

[Jack Richards]

Lol, they really aren't.
The industry is contract based. A good school will renew the contract each year, but there's still a great deal of uncertainty for teachers

This. In Primary the amount of ongoing being advertised compared to Fixed Term is minimal. At one point with 129 jobs going in my search radius only 10 ongoing.

It's a try before you buy system. School advertise fixed term contracts and if they like you, make you ongoing. If not, no loss. See ya after a year.

 

[bresker]

In my experience of primary , there’s a few ongoing positions and all the internal fixed termers apply for them when they come up. It’s a terrible situation, where you’re fighting against your colleagues for what the Yanks call ‘tenure’ .

I’ve seen tears and tantrums at year end. Those who don’t get the ongoing sometimes jump ship elsewhere. Others wonder what they’ve done wrong .

I’m out of teaching at the moment but if I go back I’m CRTing unless retirement . I don’t need much money & if I have a stressful day it’s forgotten by 4pm. I CRTed for pretty much 10 years and can do it in my sleep. Not that I do sleep, I run a tight ship .

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

CrowToon I am still yet to get it.

I have been given another year where I am and then will have to go back if I can't find ongoing.

Feedback I got when interviewing for the ongoing internal positions was that I didn't sound passionate enough and didnt explain the wholistic approach to professional learning and obsevations and how it improved my approach (as such based on that and application I wasnt top 4 out of the 6 that applied).

My prin won't be happy, but I will keep looking for ongoing throughout the year.

Well, you’ll know what to say and how to “perform” next time. Always be sincere whether you mean it or not