The ground will never host footy again sadly not enough parking and no room to expand. But still more likely than the junction oval
Third Stadium in Melbourne
- Thread starter EBERT THE KING
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #27
Yeah but this isnt about St.Kilda though. And moorabin is in arguably the worst spot of all home grounds in Melbourne.
If the league wont build another stadium, they should have purchased Ikon park and redeveloped, and made a deal with Carlton to build them a brand new training facility elsewhere (Royal Park)
I still think there is a need for a third, boutique stadium. Have a look at the crowd numbers on the weekend!
Ikon/Princes Park is owned by Melbourne City Council & has a capacity of 21k+. *
Perfect size for lower drawing games, 3rd behind the G & Docklands. Talk of another stadium is ridiculous.
*Ikon Park (Princes Park) | Austadiums
- May 23, 2016
- 713
- 836
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Port Melbourne; Kalkee; Horsham Demons
St Kilda was mentioned as a club that needed to have a secondary "home" ground available. If Geelong are allowed to have Kardinia Park, I don't see any reason St Kilda couldn't upgrade Moorabbin to a 20k seater.
Have you ever been to Carlton? It's a nightmare to get to, especially on public transport, and it's already been redeveloped by Carlton as a training facility, plus hosting VFL, VFLW and AFL games. Besides, they are under no obligation to sell their ground to the AFL, why is there an assumption from people outside Victoria that that AFL has control over everything and the clubs have to do what they say?
There may very well be a need for a third stadium in Melbourne, but it's unlikley to happen, clubs aren't going to just hand over their training grounds, and there's little to no space for a brand new stadium. Even if there was, the Victorian government isn't going to pay for it, we're still dealing with the pandemic and what money is going to sport is going to regional areas for the Commonwealth games.
- May 23, 2016
- 713
- 836
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Port Melbourne; Kalkee; Horsham Demons
Theres almost no parking, poor public transport and the ground and facilities need to be refurbished extensively to meet AFL standards. Plus, Carlton wouldn't be happy being kicked out of the training ground they're in the middle of renovating.
You cant do a stadium without the support (big $s) of the local Council & access to State Government dollars i.e grants, a friendly program or two.
That requires a CEO of the calibre of Brian Cook.
See Stage 5 - Kardinia Park Stadium Trust
'The Victorian State Government has committed $142m to enable the 5th stage of the GMHBA Stadium redevelopment at Kardinia Park.
The project will secure the venue’s status as Australia’s best regional stadium and complete the ground’s transformation.
The project includes:
A new grandstand at the northern end of the stadium, increasing the overall capacity to over 40,000,
A new indoor cricket hub to be located between the stadium and the railway line,
A new entry plaza to be established adjacent to Moorabool Street and the north of the stadium,
New professional and community sport change rooms and facilities, and
A sports museum.
Whether it be an AFL match, T20 cricket or one of the many community events held at the stadium, patrons will continue to enjoy world-class facilities year round.'
I want one too, wont fly.
The difference is that Moorabbin would just be a small third stadium in Melbournethat is not central and would only ever host 5 St Kilda games a season. The bigger games would remain at Docklands.
Where as Kardinia Park is the largest multi-purpose stadium in the regional city of Geelong. Which hosts 9 AFL games, plus A-League games, plus Big Bash games, plus concerts. Moorabbin would never host those other events.
You wouldn’t get the funding to do up Moorabbin like what Kardinia Park has been able to secure.
PLus wasting money on a third stadium when government has record debts to pay back is ridiculous when you have Kardinia Park & North Ballarat grounds capable of holding games
Princes Park would work perfectly with upgraded transport. Also it would be a nice tradition for the Victorian clubs to return to their suburban home grounds for 1 game a season against a small interstate team (Usually Gold Coast or GWS)
And GC and GWS then get zero experience playing at the MCG then have to play there in finals without playing there all year??
- Oct 19, 2017
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Are the operating costs of Marvel Stadium so high that the operating costs of a slightly smaller stadium plus the expense of building it in the first place would see it be financially viable?
There used to be a number of fans who had to attend in order for the club to turn a profit, however now its AFL owned that landscape probably looks significantly different & considering the AFL are throwing a lot of $$ to improve Marvel, they would want to do everything they can to ensure they their return on investment as quickly as possible.
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
There is no need for third stadium. The current crowd numbers fit into the current stadiums.
You usually need another stadium if the crowds are too big for a stadium, not the other way round.
- Thread starter
- #39
Not necessarily.
Current model being utilised by US and EU firms when building stadiums are that they are built for purpose. I.E to meet demands.
Crowd sizes WILL NOT SIGNFICANTLY GROW in the next 15 to 20 years. The way that sport is consumed has completely changed. More and more people view the matches form the comfort of their own home, in a live and brilliant telecast.
Atmosphere and enjoyment factor are major factors in people returning to the footy. Both aren't there with crowds of 15-20k at a 55k seat stadium.
- Thread starter
- #40
Agreed. Dogs got 18k at Marvel vs GWS and North got 15k at Marvel vs GCS.
Both should have been at Western oval and Ikon park respectively.
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Stadiums aren’t big enough in the US and EU.
People returning to the football? Crowds are down due to Covid. Last full season 2019 was a record total attendance league wide, crowds were not on the decline.
MCG Average 2019: 53694 (2nd highest ever)
MCG average 2022: average 49894
Marvel stadium average 2019: 31875
Marvel stadium average 2022: 27313
On average both Victorian stadiums have lost less than 4000 people attending in year one of returning to the football. We want spend $400m on a 30-35k stadium to regain an average of less 4000 people from one year of returning while a worldwide pandemic is still going on?
I think we need to look at years two and three before we say crowds are on the decline after 2019 record breaking season.
- Dec 7, 2016
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- North Melbourne
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- North Ballarat Roosters
The AFL aren't putting a cent into improving Marvel. Its $225 million upgrade is being entirely funded by the State Government.
Actually many stadiums for professional sport in the USA are being deliberately built with a smaller capacity. It is all about the supply and demand of tickets. A lower capacity stadium means that owners can make season ticket holders buy PSLs (personal seat licenses) on top of also paying for season tickets - doubling the income stream. Many NFL teams could easily fill 100,000 seat stadiums, but instead limit capacity to around 70,000. Similar with NBA stadiums. MLB stadiums are the only ones that are well sized capacity wise.
Whitten Oval is currently being refurbished and is unavailable for any football. Once finished it will only be suitable for VFL, AFLW, VFLW and WRFL finals. It will not have the capacity for the Bulldogs' 50,000 members.
The crowd at Marvel was so low because it clashed with local football, and many Bulldog fans, myself included, prefer the community atmosphere and culture at local football over the sterile atmosphere and Las Vegas like sensory overload from the light and sound show that one experiences at the monstrosity at the Docklands.
- Dec 7, 2016
- 2,128
- 4,693
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- North Ballarat Roosters
You're right. They will never build a stadium that accommodates all members. Even the MCG cannot accommodate all Richmond or Collingwood members. We don't need booming music to accompany goals or ads bleating through PA systems. We can do without the LED light shows. The atmosphere can be created by having fans crammed into venues, not artificial atmosphere electronically created to fill 30% filled vast stadiums.
I personally think the current state of stadiums in Melbourne is insane and is one of the reasons why the game day experience is so poor.
Fancy pouring a billion dollars into a 100,000 seat stadium that might be full once a year.
The MCG should ideally be 70-80,000, Etihad 30-40,000 and we should have a third which is 20-30,000.
I actually think it looks really ordinary seeing the vast majority of games in Melbourne that are on tv 75% empty.
If the proposed rail extension and road fixes happen, could see Casey Fields becoming a 20k boutique stadium that also hosts a-league
Having the stadiums being centrally located is a good idea, we just need one that is ~30k or so for the lower drawing games.
I get why we play Melbourne v GWS and the MCG and Essendon v Hawthorn at Marvel, but the clubs would be financially better off if they were allowed to schedule games at venues of an appropriate size. E-Gate next to North Melbourne station was the perfect spot before the Andrews Gov went corrupt and took Transurbans tollway (what a shitshow that project is).
Next best options would be Princes Park or the Junction Oval if you wanted to redevelop an exisiting ground. The Junction wouldn't be bad given they could play AFLW, BBL, WBBL and other first class cricket there too.
Was thinking about this the other day. Wouldn’t at all be surprised if a Waverley Park 2.0 is proposed with a 19th and 20th team coming.
The AFL is sending games out of Melbourne to anywhere prepared to pay (other than WA), even as far as Ballarat. Why would they want another stadium (given they schedule the FIXture).
