This Hawks team. POTENTIALLY the best ever ?

Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
Joined
Sep 13, 2000
Posts
66,316
Likes
26,034
Location
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Horks
Thread starter #126
funny thing is, half way between 2012 and 1991 os is 2001-2, when the lions were at their power.

The lions would relate to the style of both the 80s hawks and the current hawks but the 21 year difference shows a huge difference in the sport as a whole

But even in that time, weve also had the eagles, north, geelong in ascendency, the crows and bombers to a lesser extent, so the uncommon is quite common really.

Seven grand finals in a row is still quite remarkable though. That would mean another four for this group, so much as the eighties hawks replenished for the late eighties, that would have to happen now

Funnyly enough though, burgoynes career so far (debut 2002. Pr 04. Gf 07. Gf 12. Pr 13. Pr 14 )is tracking michael tucks (debut 72. Gf 75. Pr 76. Pr 78 pr 83. Gf 84)

Hows 2021 looking Shaun. Just over a year older than tuck at the same stage
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

cryptor

Premium Gold
Joined
May 11, 2008
Posts
16,498
Likes
33,265
AFL Club
Hawthorn
funny thing is, half way between 2012 and 1991 os is 2001-2, when the lions were at their power.

The lions would relate to the style of both the 80s hawks and the current hawks but the 21 year difference shows a huge difference in the sport as a whole

But even in that time, weve also had the eagles, north, geelong in ascendency, the crows and bombers to a lesser extent, so the uncommon is quite common really.

Seven grand finals in a row is still quite remarkable though. That would mean another four for this group, so much as the eighties hawks replenished for the late eighties, that would have to happen now

Funnyly enough though, burgoynes career so far (debut 2002. Pr 04. Gf 07. Gf 12. Pr 13. Pr 14 )is tracking michael tucks (debut 72. Gf 75. Pr 76. Pr 78 pr 83. Gf 84)

Hows 2021 looking Shaun. Just over a year older than tuck at the same stage
If Burgoyne was that good for that long then that would be massive considering people thought his career was already over due to his knee when we got him.
 

Hawkk

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Posts
38,572
Likes
11,768
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
funny thing is, half way between 2012 and 1991 os is 2001-2, when the lions were at their power.

The lions would relate to the style of both the 80s hawks and the current hawks but the 21 year difference shows a huge difference in the sport as a whole

But even in that time, weve also had the eagles, north, geelong in ascendency, the crows and bombers to a lesser extent, so the uncommon is quite common really.

Seven grand finals in a row is still quite remarkable though. That would mean another four for this group, so much as the eighties hawks replenished for the late eighties, that would have to happen now

Funnyly enough though, burgoynes career so far (debut 2002. Pr 04. Gf 07. Gf 12. Pr 13. Pr 14 )is tracking michael tucks (debut 72. Gf 75. Pr 76. Pr 78 pr 83. Gf 84)

Hows 2021 looking Shaun. Just over a year older than tuck at the same stage
If (and it is a massive if) Hawthorn salute this year it would be 4 flags in 8 years.

...Hawthorn's famous 1983-1991 run was 5 flags in 9 years however given the AFL's push to equalisation I would argue that 4 flags in 8 years is a much more difficult feat than the famous 1980's run.

If Hawthorn was a race horse we would start every season (since at least 2012) with the heaviest handicap in the competition (be it the draft, the draw, financial constraints or FA).
 

MrFujiMoto

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
5,260
Likes
5,922
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Box Hill Hawks, Norwood Redlegs
EVen with the flag last year, that 86 - 89 run netted 3 flags in 4 years. We would need to win 15 to be considered as good as them. Even though it is harder now, that team was a team that haunted people. This team may be the same and the one similarity I LOVE about the 2 is that they were both the best and the hardest, meanest, toughest teams to play against.
 

Hawkk

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Posts
38,572
Likes
11,768
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I hate these threads comparing Hawthorn to Hawthorn. Obviously, younger members here are privy to watching a great era in the HFC history. However they missed equally brilliant teams wear brow and gold from the past. Unfortunately for me, I started following the Hawks when every win was celebrated like a premiership, they were few and far between. It is possible, our current team could win a few more flags yet, but how many do they need to be the best? I don't know, but I am going to continue to enjoy the ride, and so should you. One thing for sure, we are the best at the moment. Let's hope it stays that way for few seasons yet.
Another statistic that is worth considering is this (and I believe it best demonstrates the difference in performance between eras)

Win / Loss records by decade:

http://afltables.com/afl/teams/allteams/overall_wl_dec.html

For Hawthorn...

1920's - 12.92% Win / Loss (12/12) ('25, '27, '28 wooden spoons)
1930's - 25.28% Win / Loss (11/12) ('32 wooden spoon)
1940's - 24.17% Win / Loss (11/12) ('41, '42, '46 wooden spoons)
1950's - 35.79% Win / Loss (11/12) ('50, '53 wooden spoons)
1960's - 50.79% Win / Loss (7/12) ('61 flag, '63 RU, '65 wooden spoon)
1970's - 65.68% Win / Loss (2/12) ('71, '76, '78 flags, '75 RU)
1980's - 72.34% Win / Loss (1/14) ('83, '86, '88, '89 flags, '84, '85, '87 RU)
1990's - 52.21% Win / Loss (7/17) ('91 flag)
2000's - 48.70% Win / Loss (11/16) ('08 flag)
2010's - 75.40% Win / Loss (1/18) ('13, '14 flags, '12 RU)

Halfway through the 2010's and our record is better than it was in the 1980's...when you consider that there is some sense of inevitability that we will eventually drop back to the pack we are an excellent position to better our 1970's Win / Loss record and perhaps sustain a 70% Win / Loss record across the decade

I would regard a 68-70% Win / Loss record across the decade (in an era of equalisation) as superior to a 72.34% record across the 1980's (which was an era where the wealthy clubs dominated)
 

Hawkk

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Posts
38,572
Likes
11,768
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Another big reason players want to come and stay at Hawthorn is the fact that they are rivalling Collingwood as the biggest club in Melbourne. Love him or hate him, former president Jeff Kennett did to the Hawks what he did to the state of Victoria as premier.

The Richmond flogs will love that :drunk:
 

Roddy

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Posts
9,385
Likes
8,175
Location
M-Town
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Aussie Cricket team.
He seems pretty sure about the potential to move training facilities in that article. Have the club announced anything yet?
Haven't seen an official announcement, but it can't be too far away. Apparently we've outgrown Waverly, and we have shitloads of cash.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

IschenkoUBeauty

Norm Smith Medallist
Suspended
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Posts
5,864
Likes
8,619
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Speaking of the best Hawks ever....

Just checked and Graham Arthur, captain of Hawthorn's team of the century, will be on Open Mike tonight at 9:30pm.
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2000
Posts
66,316
Likes
26,034
Location
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Horks
Thread starter #143
The parallels between the two eras are strong. To try and beat us in the eighties, the essendon* team accused us of drug cheating, in this era, they resorted to it.

similarity intensifies.
The eighties was a conspiracy, this era is a conspiracy theory
 

Agent Smith

BigFooty Oracle
Joined
May 7, 2011
Posts
7,594
Likes
16,304
Location
The Matrix
AFL Club
Hawthorn
The parallels between the two eras are strong. To try and beat us in the eighties, the essendon* team accused us of drug cheating, in this era, they resorted to it.

similarity intensifies.
It's more similar than you think. Back in 1986, Hawthorn decided to use the Essendon* game at Waverley to mark the 25th anniversary of our first premiership in an attempt to inspire the team to victory. And it worked a treat. This was one of the few games I ever rocked up to expecting to lose, and I was disappointed we'd waste the anniversary on what was a certain loss. But we smashed 'em from the first bounce and never looked back. Went on to win some silverware later that year if I remember correctly. ;)

This year, Essendon* celebrated their 30th anniversary of 84/85 B2B premierships by choosing the Hawthorn game to mark the moment. Well played, drug cheats, you stole our idea and used it against us. However, if you think you're gonna win silverware later this year, then you're as deluded as... actually I was going to use Essendon* as the epitome of delusional (re: drug saga)... can I compare them against themselves as an example? :p
 

Hawkk

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Posts
38,572
Likes
11,768
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It's more similar than you think. Back in 1986, Hawthorn decided to use the Essendon* game at Waverley to mark the 25th anniversary of our first premiership in an attempt to inspire the team to victory. And it worked a treat. This was one of the few games I ever rocked up to expecting to lose, and I was disappointed we'd waste the anniversary on what was a certain loss. But we smashed 'em from the first bounce and never looked back. Went on to win some silverware later that year if I remember correctly. ;)

This year, Essendon* celebrated their 30th anniversary of 84/85 B2B premierships by choosing the Hawthorn game to mark the moment. Well played, drug cheats, you stole our idea and used it against us. However, if you think you're gonna win silverware later this year, then you're as deluded as... actually I was going to use Essendon* as the epitome of delusional (re: drug saga)... can I compare them against themselves as an example? :p
Essendon* celebrated their 25th anniversary of the 84/85 B2B premierships by choosing the Hawthorn game to mark the moment in 2009. The year after we won our 2008 flag...

We lost that game as well (and had a shit year) so I'm not sure if the learning out of that is that we've won a lot of recent flags or we are in for a shit year?

Still the fact that Essendon haven't won a final for 11 years is hilarious :)
 

grumbleguts

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 14, 2011
Posts
8,013
Likes
16,972
Location
Tully FNQ
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It's more similar than you think. Back in 1986, Hawthorn decided to use the Essendon* game at Waverley to mark the 25th anniversary of our first premiership in an attempt to inspire the team to victory. And it worked a treat. This was one of the few games I ever rocked up to expecting to lose, and I was disappointed we'd waste the anniversary on what was a certain loss. But we smashed 'em from the first bounce and never looked back. Went on to win some silverware later that year if I remember correctly. ;)

This year, Essendon* celebrated their 30th anniversary of 84/85 B2B premierships by choosing the Hawthorn game to mark the moment. Well played, drug cheats, you stole our idea and used it against us. However, if you think you're gonna win silverware later this year, then you're as deluded as... actually I was going to use Essendon* as the epitome of delusional (re: drug saga)... can I compare them against themselves as an example? :p
I think "delusional as an Essendon* drug cheat" has become part of the English lexicon.

On more parallels:

Last season destroyed what was a pretty decent run of parallels between my son's life and mine.

I was born in 1965. We won the first premiership of my lifetime the year I turned 6. (1971)
My son was born in 2002. We won the first premiership of his lifetime the year he turned 6. (2008)

We had a terrible run with injuries the year after missing the finals by a single ladder position the year I turned 7 (1972)
We had a terrible run with injuries the year after missing the finals by a single ladder position the year he turned 7 (2009)

The following year we finished 7th the year I turned 8 (1973)
The following year we finished 7th the year he turned 8 (2010)

The following year we finished 3rd the year I turned 9 (1974)
The following year we finished 3rd the year he turned 9 (2011)

We made the grand final but didn't salute for the first time in my lifetime the year I turned 10 (1975)
We made the grand final but didn't salute for the first time in his lifetime the year he turned 10 (2012)

We made the grandfinal and won it for the second time in my life the year I turned 11 (1976)
We made the grandfinal and won it for the second time in his life the year he turned 11 (2013)

2014 screwed it up for both of us because it skipped 1977 and went straight onto 1978.

But it means one thing that we should all be excited about.

WE ARE ALL ABOUT TO RELIVE THE 80'S!!!! WOOHOO!!!
 

Adelaide Hawk

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Posts
45,326
Likes
33,998
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Norwood
I don't wish to compare the current team with the teams of the 1980s, different players, conditions, game styles, etc. I've always said great players would be great in any era, and great teams as well.

I'll just offer a little food for thought about just how good the Hawthorn teams 1983-1991 really were. 9 seasons, 8 Grand Finals, 5 flags. That will never happen again, no matter how much the AFL manipulates the competition.

It's easy to say the current team will be the greatest ever if they 3-peat, and in a sense, that would be true. However, I've often reflected upon the 1987 season where at various stages, I've never seen the Hawks play better. Late in the season we lost Dunstall, and went into the 1987 GF without him, and Brereton was only about 20% fit. It annoys me when I hear Rhys-Jones being praised for how he took Brereton out of the game. Geez, I would have beaten Dermie that day, he could hardly run! I have no doubt that had we been anywhere near our best, we would have beaten Carlton that day.

Had this happened, this would have meant 4 in a row, 1986-89. Just imagine how history would have judged that achievement.

Then we had 1990, what a disastrous year. It was similar to 2009 in many respects. Reigning premier, went into the season with very high expectations, a 20+ goal thrashing of Geelong in round 1 had people groaning in acceptance that the Hawks were again the team to beat. Then it all fell apart. Injury after injury to quality players, including the serious head injury to Dunstall, gradually decimated the Hawks. A sound thrashing late in the season of Collingwood, the eventual premier, showed just how good the Hawks could be, and everyone turned their heads towards us as we headed into the finals. However, the season had taken its toll, and trying to win the flag from the EF was too big an ask.

Once again, if we'd had more luck with injuries, we were good enough to win the flag in 1990. Having gone on to win it again in 1991 has often had me thinking about a team which, with ordinary luck, COULD have won 6 flags in a row, 1986-1991. Can you imagine that? The Hawks team of that era was that good. Not only a good team that was well coached, but chock-a-block full of superstars. Whenever there was a state of origin match, it was laden with Hawthorn stars.

I know it's all IFs and BUTs, but I still think about what could have been.
 
Top Bottom