Society/Culture This is straight out child abuse ("transgender" child)

Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
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How is this even legal?

NSW child, 4, identifies as transgender as data reveals growing referrals for gender dysphoria

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/32501729/child-4-in-sex-change-bid-as-government-reveals-hundreds-of-kids-seeking-gender-reassignment/#page1

No.

A 4 year old child does not have the intellectual capacity to even grasp the concept. 41% of transgender people attempt suicide at one point in their life. According to John Hopkins University roughly 80% of children who exhibit transgender behaviors just snap out of it over time.

This has been pushed by the parents. The parents have doomed this child to a lifetime of questioning themselves, ruined any chance the child will ever have of reproducing and massively increased their odds of suicide. And for what? To prove how tolerant and progressive they are?


The media have lost their collective minds in promoting this crap. Obviously being considerate to people who suffer from gender dysphoria is something that should be encouraged, but encouraging children into that life should be considered child abuse. There is no excuse for this.
From your post, it looks like the media is not promotin this, but feeding it to public outrage machinery
 

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YippeeYiYeo

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Charlize Theron is telling the world her 7 year old kid is transgender.

This has got to stop.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-gossip/hollywood-actress-charlize-therons-child-jackson-7-is-transgender-ng-b881174959z

Charlize Theron has revealed her seven-year-old child is transgender.

The award-winning Hollywood actress is raising Jackson as a girl, according to the Daily Mail.

“Yes, I thought she was a boy, too. Until she looked at me when she was three years old and said ‘I am not a boy!,” Charlize told the publication.

“So there you go! I have two beautiful daughters who, just like any parent, I want to protect and I want to see thrive.


“They were born who they are and exactly where in the world both of them get to find themselves as they grow up, and who they want to be, is not for me to decide.


This bitch has adopted children and now using them to push her own political biases into the media. Its disgusting. A government authority needs to step in and remove these children before its too late.
 

tandino

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If a seven year old kid said he was an adult, you wouldn't give him the keys to your car.

Regardless of the kids identity and what they do or don't believe of themselves at seven years old, this is something that should be between the family and the doctors.
 
Apr 13, 2019
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Not as yet but I have forgiven them because hating them for what they did to me was killing me. Focussing on myself and not the men that attacked me has aided in my recovery. I want to learn from my ordeals and hopefully educate others to hopefully make life easier in the future for transgender children.
It is a testament to you that you can forgive them.
 
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Hey Chief I would love to do an "ask me anything" (AMA) podcast as discussions like this can save many lives. Transgender children and adults are taking a real hammering at the moment.

To be referred to as a cross dresser hurts me to the core, some of the posts in this thread are sickening as they are extremely uneducated and ill informed.

I am tough old nut and I would rather people ask me the difficult questions and leave other more vulnerable transgender people alone.

I have personally seen many members of big footy forum take the time and put the effort into educating themselves re transgender issues and many attitudes have positively evolved.

I am very willing to put myself out there and hopefully a greater understanding of transgender issues can occur.
Anyone who is genuinely interested educating themselves would be listening to your opinion. Most posts in this thread are coming from pure ignorance (some admit it and others arrogantly believe their baseless opinions count).

I learnt something from you slready, ie. I didn't know hormone blockers were reversible.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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They're the same thing, it's semantics.

Apparently it was decided that the newspeak definition of gender would be a social construct, different to that of sex. Historically, that has never been the case. Trans people have gender dysphoria. They've changed the definition of gender to shelter themselves from the fact that they have a mental illness.

This doesn't mean they should be locked up, or ridiculed. Nor does it mean they need to be "cured". I have nothing but compassion for trans people. I will be polite, civil, even affectionate towards them. But I draw the line when they want to start invading areas that are segregated along gender (or sex, if you wish) lines, particularly when it is done for safety reasons (e.g. in rape shelters, or for contact sports, as you have previously discussed).

Which is why I think it's important we stop defining gender as a social construct and clearly identify that transgenderism is gender dysphoria. You can't be born a man and identify as a woman, you're a man in a dress, and that's fine. You don't need to be ashamed about being a man who wears a dress, had plastic surgery and changed their name to Wendy, but we aren't doing these people any favours by telling them they are anything other than what they are.


There's a fine line between being compassionate and being negligent.
I don't think its semantics, I think its a very important part of the entire discussion.

There is your biological sex, then there is the societal norms assumed of that sex due to historic biological imperatives. Which is gender as a social construct.
In our society we have very little need for the biological imperatives that have always defined man and woman. Conception, birth, etc not-withstanding.

In work, what is there to differentiate between a man and a woman?

In our society, what is expected of a man that is not expected of a woman?
As we strive towards equality, should there be any difference?



So if our societal norms define a gender, why is someone who abides by those norms not that gender?


We need to treat it the way we treat anything in our society, with the safety of others in mind.
If you have a man who commits sexual assaults, who transitions to a woman who commits sexual assaults, what do you expect to happen if you lock them up in general population with other women?


Sport is a more difficult area. It needs to be regulated and scrutinized more.
Biological advantages do have an impact.

720205
 

Ed_Gein

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If a seven year old kid said he was an adult, you wouldn't give him the keys to your car.

Regardless of the kids identity and what they do or don't believe of themselves at seven years old, this is something that should be between the family and the doctors.
The doctors probably have to pander towards this bulls**t otherwise they'd lose their license for being a bigot and transphobic.
 

Jello_B

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I don't think its semantics, I think its a very important part of the entire discussion.

There is your biological sex, then there is the societal norms assumed of that sex due to historic biological imperatives. Which is gender as a social construct.
In our society we have very little need for the biological imperatives that have always defined man and woman. Conception, birth, etc not-withstanding.

In work, what is there to differentiate between a man and a woman?

In our society, what is expected of a man that is not expected of a woman?
As we strive towards equality, should there be any difference?



So if our societal norms define a gender, why is someone who abides by those norms not that gender?


We need to treat it the way we treat anything in our society, with the safety of others in mind.
If you have a man who commits sexual assaults, who transitions to a woman who commits sexual assaults, what do you expect to happen if you lock them up in general population with other women?


Sport is a more difficult area. It needs to be regulated and scrutinized more.
Biological advantages do have an impact.

View attachment 720205
What is the ultimate point of all of this. If we all agree that a man and and woman (whether constructed or not) can play any role in society why administer drugs to kids.
Would it not be better to allow children to understand that their body does not place limitations on who they can partner with and what they can be in their lives.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Perhaps we need to focus on mental health a little more than the physical

 

MC Bad Genius

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Perhaps we need to focus on mental health a little more than the physical

I can't work out if you're posting this to support or oppose the idea that giving puberty blocking medication to children is child abuse. I've seen people use these sorts of statistics both ways.
 

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TheBrownDog
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I can't work out if you're posting this to support or oppose the idea that giving puberty blocking medication to children is child abuse. I've seen people use these sorts of statistics both ways.
I’m pro choice at adulthood but not pre 18. Even then I would strongly support a mental health process throughout pre 18 and a number of years pre-op or medication.

At the end of the day we all have physical issues be it weight, not enough muscle, shape, hair, boob or penis size, looks, skin etc etc but changing your outlook and being one with yourself is 99% of the battle.

Personally I see any operation or medication as a failure of personality, be it a a sex change, a face lift or boob job. As it deals with the physical but it doesn’t change the underlying issue or weakness.

That said I’m pro choice and happy if people’s choices make them happy. The suicide rates and attempts, post change, doesn’t support the change leads to happiness.
 

ShanDog

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There is your biological sex, then there is the societal norms assumed of that sex due to historic biological imperatives. Which is gender as a social construct.
How do you mean gender is a social construct if you're saying the behaviours of the two sexes are biological in foundation?
 

MC Bad Genius

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I’m pro choice at adulthood but not pre 18. Even then I would strongly support a mental health process throughout pre 18 and a number of years pre-op or medication.

At the end of the day we all have physical issues be it weight, not enough muscle, shape, hair, boob or penis size, looks, skin etc etc but changing your outlook and being one with yourself is 99% of the battle.

Personally I see any operation or medication as a failure of personality, be it a a sex change, a face lift or boob job. As it deals with the physical but it doesn’t change the underlying issue or weakness.

That said I’m pro choice and happy if people’s choices make them happy. The suicide rates and attempts, post change, doesn’t support the change leads to happiness.
Thanks for making the effort to explain it. I don't agree with the idea of it being a failure of personality, but I understand where you're coming from. It's hard to get a clear answer from the research, but it seems to me that medication to stop puberty has some benefits to post-surgery mental health, although the difference between incredibly high suicide rates and very high suicide rates is perhaps not worth the intervention. I think the suicide rates of people with gender dysmorphia (regardless of whether they have surgery) is alarming and something that we really need to support, even if it's not something we agree with on a moral sense (not saying that's you).
 

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TheBrownDog
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Thanks for making the effort to explain it. I don't agree with the idea of it being a failure of personality, but I understand where you're coming from. It's hard to get a clear answer from the research, but it seems to me that medication to stop puberty has some benefits to post-surgery mental health, although the difference between incredibly high suicide rates and very high suicide rates is perhaps not worth the intervention. I think the suicide rates of people with gender dysmorphia (regardless of whether they have surgery) is alarming and something that we really need to support, even if it's not something we agree with on a moral sense (not saying that's you).
I apologise for my poor wording but I think you got what I was trying to convey. It's clearly an incredibly complex issue and certainly not a one size fits all.

I guess where I'm coming from, is "support the individual" as much as possible. Encouraging and focusing on mental health, rather than hormonal or surgical intervention is the solution for most body image/ connection issues.

It doesn't mean that hormonal or surgical options shouldn't be available but I do question whether it should be the first choice and whether it actually makes people happy.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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What is the ultimate point of all of this. If we all agree that a man and and woman (whether constructed or not) can play any role in society why administer drugs to kids.
Would it not be better to allow children to understand that their body does not place limitations on who they can partner with and what they can be in their lives.
Its a hard one. I'm against kids being drugged, and pro education.

Experts know more about this than I do, so I defer to them with the choices they stand by.

If it's being done without any medical advice etc... it's child abuse and the child should be taken away for their own protection.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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How do you mean gender is a social construct if you're saying the behaviours of the two sexes are biological in foundation?
I mean that it's biological, but as it's those biological imperatives are no longer required, it's only maintained as a social construct.
 

ShanDog

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I mean that it's biological, but as it's those biological imperatives are no longer required, it's only maintained as a social construct.
No longer required? I don't see how you can come to that conclusion. The world has changed a great deal in the last couple thousand years compared to our evolutionary origins, sure, but not so much as to consign biology to the dustbin.

I understand where that argument comes from but I really disagree quite strongly. I think the evidence of gender differences becoming more pronounced in more egalitarian societies also supports that.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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No longer required? I don't see how you can come to that conclusion. The world has changed a great deal in the last couple thousand years compared to our evolutionary origins, sure, but not so much as to consign biology to the dustbin.
I'm not doing that.
I understand where that argument comes from but I really disagree quite strongly. I think the evidence of gender differences becoming more pronounced in more egalitarian societies also supports that.
Where does a man still need to hunt while a woman gathers?
 

ShanDog

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I'm not doing that.

Where does a man still need to hunt while a woman gathers?
Well I'm not quite sure what you mean then sorry.

We have modern incarnations of all those old evolutionary-driven imperatives today. We're on a footy forum - any guess what competitive sport is a facsimile of in an evolutionary sense? :) Some are superfluous but certainly not all. Mostly they are just different, rather than unnecessary.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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Well I'm not quite sure what you mean then sorry.

We have modern incarnations of all those old evolutionary-driven imperatives today. We're on a footy forum - any guess what competitive sport is a facsimile of in an evolutionary sense? :) Some are superfluous but certainly not all. Mostly they are just different, rather than unnecessary.
I don't think its semantics, I think its a very important part of the entire discussion.

There is your biological sex, then there is the societal norms assumed of that sex due to historic biological imperatives. Which is gender as a social construct.
In our society we have very little need for the biological imperatives that have always defined man and woman. Conception, birth, etc not-withstanding.

In work, what is there to differentiate between a man and a woman?

In our society, what is expected of a man that is not expected of a woman?
As we strive towards equality, should there be any difference?



So if our societal norms define a gender, why is someone who abides by those norms not that gender?


We need to treat it the way we treat anything in our society, with the safety of others in mind.
If you have a man who commits sexual assaults, who transitions to a woman who commits sexual assaults, what do you expect to happen if you lock them up in general population with other women?


Sport is a more difficult area. It needs to be regulated and scrutinized more.
Biological advantages do have an impact.

View attachment 720205
 
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