This is why we have one premiership.

[KissStephanie]

There was a reason, a very good reason our board, Collingwood's board and 13 other clubs board rejected Cousins. Together between us and the pies we have 12 months of investigations to base our decisions on. The reasons we may never know but as supporters we have to stand behind the clubs decision and pledge our support and not jump off because of a decision we don't agree with. The board and directors made a decision they thought would be best for the club in the future.

Trust the club. I dare you.

Speaking as a Collingwood supporter, I will state that although usually I support the decisions that the club makes, I did not when they chose not to pursue Ben Cousins. This was mainly because they did not give a reason for that decision, and I fully support the idea of giving people a second chance in a situation such as this.

The actor Robert Downey Jnr. is addicted to drugs and has been in and out of prison, but the television show Ally McBeal gave him a second chance, and he won an Emmy Award. This led to his best movie performances of his acting career in films such as Wonder Boys, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Good Night and Good Luck, A Guide to Recognising Your Saints, Zodiac, Tropic Thunder and Iron Man.

I think it's great to see how he has recovered, even though his brain is permanently chemically damaged from the drugs, and he will always be addicted to them, but being able to work in the profession that he loves has prevented him from relapsing. I was hoping that Collingwood would do the same for Ben Cousins even though sport and movies are two different situations, but at least they pulled out a while ago now.

I would be ten times more disappointed if they had dragged it out for as long as St.Kilda has. Months of speculation, and their captain, and current and former players recommending them to recruit Cousins would have just added to the anticipation of him joining the club, and for it to be all turned around in one day must be shattering to most St.Kilda supporters.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

I'm not particularly surprised by the decision of our board. From the articles I've read, it was unanimous. I believe a united board is a good board.

I've been around long enough to not take too much notice of all the pre-draft hype of Ben Cousins becoming a Saint. Mates have been asking me for weeks whether I'd be happy if he did become a Saint and all along my feelings have been mixed, but I also always pointed out that it was no sure thing that he would be, despite media reports.

Ben Cousins is not guilty of any sin because he turned up at a drug / hair test with short hair, but it sure sends a bad message. I think this may have been a major factor in the board's decision. Rightly or wrongly, perception is everything. Almost seemed like an "up yours" to the AFL, but that's just my perception.

I don't think any club can ignore the feelings of their sponsors either, though you wouldn't want it to become the norm that sponsors weigh into recuiting decisions. This was an exceptional circumstance, however, and the club is bigger than any one player, and as major revenue providors (especially during this GFC) you can't ignore your backers.

I feel it's rubbish to say that Ben might now also get back on the drugs because of this. We're not a rehab clinic. We shouldn't be recruiting self confessed addicts on the basis that if we don't, they might go back to using.

We, as a club, were always going to be damned if we do or don't recruit Ben Cousins, but I'm glad we had a unanimous decision from the board, and included the coach.

I trust the club in their decision making process as they have done a lot more research than I. I look forward to a stronger playing performance in 2009.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Instead of picking a player of Ben Cousins calibre for practically nothing we'll go with a proven dud in Nathan Carroll.

Lets hope we can strive towards another losing Prelim in '09.

Idiots.

Ooh, this annoys me.

While I recognise that Carroll isn't a Brownlow medalist etc, we forget that before 2007, he was considered a fine backman. He fell off the wagon from then on, I suspect partly because of the change in coach (that sometimes affects players significantly) at Melbourne. He completely went off the rails, and his footy suffered for it.

Now here's the difference between Carroll and Cousins: one was repenant, the other one wasn't. In other words, one recognises that they've stuffed up, and wants to change. The other doesn't.

Ironically, the reason we can tell is because of them actually doing the very same thing. Cousins got rid of his hair to dodge the test, or to simply stick his finger up at the AFL - either way, that reeks of not being repentant. Carroll has also shaved his head and his facial hair, but for an entirely different reason. That hair and ridiculous beard were a reflection of his attitude, and he wanted to make a clear statement that his attitude had changed. He also said what Cousins never has - that his addiction (in this case, alcohol) is HIS responsibility, and he is willing to change. Cousins has flirted around that all the while, as the Greg Baum article makes abundantly clear.

I'll take a repentant Carroll looking to resurrect his career (remember, resurrection is all about dying to something and being renewed to a new life), over a Cousins who is blinded by his own arrogance. I'll do that any day of the week, thankyou.

 

[Sir Robert]

Am shattered - it's all I can say really.

I believe in 2nd chances and whilst the waxing thing was totally irresponsible and arrogant it was an up yours to the AFL not to hide anything (well I'd like to think so).

Poor to lead Ben on like this - he may not be an upstanding citizen but he deserved better!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Speaking as a Collingwood supporter, I will state that although usually I support the decisions that the club makes, I did not when they chose not to pursue Ben Cousins. This was mainly because they did not give a reason for that decision, and I fully support the idea of giving people a second chance in a situation such as this.

The actor Robert Downey Jnr. is addicted to drugs and has been in and out of prison, but the television show Ally McBeal gave him a second chance, and he won an Emmy Award. This led to his best movie performances of his acting career in films such as Wonder Boys, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Good Night and Good Luck, A Guide to Recognising Your Saints, Zodiac, Tropic Thunder and Iron Man.

I think it's great to see how he has recovered, even though his brain is permanently chemically damaged from the drugs, and he will always be addicted to them, but being able to work in the profession that he loves has prevented him from relapsing. I was hoping that Collingwood would do the same for Ben Cousins even though sport and movies are two different situations, but at least they pulled out a while ago now.

I would be ten times more disappointed if they had dragged it out for as long as St.Kilda has. Months of speculation, and their captain, and current and former players recommending them to recruit Cousins would have just added to the anticipation of him joining the club, and for it to be all turned around in one day must be shattering to most St.Kilda supporters.

Both StKilda and Collingwood have declined to reveal all of the reasons for not getting him. It could be that they are working on information that they could not readily prove in court, leaving themselves open to being sued by Cousins if they revealed it.

As for the media, it's a joke that sportsmen need to be puritans while drugs are rife in the music, film and television. Ben Cousins is not allowed to perform because he would be a bad role model, but Amy Winehouse is allowed to. A Journilists covering the "bali nine" in Indonesia is busted with drugs while he is there. Incredible double standards. How can my 8 year old watch Iron Man and not see Downy as a role model.

I had warmed to the idea of having Cousins on the team ( as Grant Thomas said it is easy to be seduced by the idea of Cousins tearing up the midfield and kicking it to Reiwoldt ) but I have always disliked the way he seems to be laughing on the inside when the Sh** is going down. And other cynical behaiviour on his behalf , such as the fly on the wall movie he was making.

 

[cartwright]

Jeezus
Thank god L2M4G was on here last night - knocking some sense into those 'fairweather' supporters - if you're jumping off because of this, I don't think you were a true supporter in the first place.

I had warmed to the idea of having Cousins on the team ( as Grant Thomas said it is easy to be seduced by the idea of Cousins tearing up the midfield and kicking it to Reiwoldt ) but I have always disliked the way he seems to be laughing on the inside when the Sh** is going down. And other cynical behaiviour on his behalf , such as the fly on the wall movie he was making.

My sentiments as well SS - I was warming to the idea, liked the thought of giving him a 2nd chance.

But he again, has put himself in this position -

I trust the board has made the right decision.

 

[thegoldenbear]

Where there's smoke......

Although the process turned into a saga by the end, (shame Roy couldn't punch more people in pubs and take the spotlight) I think the right decision has ultimately been made. Cousins is a smart arse that will learn the hard way that he should have pulled his head in a long time ago.

He said earlier this year he was not ashamed of his drug problem. Sorry mate, you and your ego don't fit into St Kilda's plans. I think the board saw a wolf in sheep's clothing. If you stuff up, you have to earn people's trust and admit fault. Can anyone tell me they see a repentant young man?

 

[CHBench]

I would be ten times more disappointed if they had dragged it out for as long as St.Kilda has. Months of speculation, and their captain, and current and former players recommending them to recruit Cousins would have just added to the anticipation of him joining the club, and for it to be all turned around in one day must be shattering to most St.Kilda supporters.

That's it, just speculation. No truth whatsoever. If people wanted to get sucked in (which alot look like they did) then good luck to them if they want to have a sook and rip up their membership.

I think though the timing was bad, very bad. Having just released our membership drive, to have a bad reaction like this is terrible for the club.
It is shattering but we gotta move on.

 

[krusden]

l2m4g
There is 2 sides to the "waxing" story
so you can't really condemn cousins
when noone really knows the actual story

Yet d***s like you come onto our board and rip OUR club to bits for not taking him.
See the bit in bold? You can't condemn the Club for not taking him either.

I think half the reason opposition supporters are criticising the decision is they wanted to see the saints fall over and end up in the garbage bin. again. I reckon we would have taken a bloke like cousins 10 years ago and pounced on him 15-20 years ago when we recruited wahed up idiots like they were going out of fashion.
However, i think its a gutsy and forward-looking decision by the club to NOT take him as a stop-gap measure for a couple of years. I think it will be better to see a young bloke in the positions Cousins would have taken.

 

[krusden]

Why don't you expend your disappointment and anger on polishing your jackboots Sainter?

Why don't you bugger off back to your own board?

 

[KissStephanie]

That's it, just speculation. No truth whatsoever. If people wanted to get sucked in (which alot look like they did) then good luck to them if they want to have a sook and rip up their membership.

I'm in New York City, and I have followed the Cousins saga online through SEN, 6PR, 3AW and the Australian newspapers, and there is no doubt that it was definitely more than just speculation that tied him to the Saints. All of the signs pointed to St.Kilda recruiting him, and for it being a win for both club and player.

However, I always felt that nothing was certain because the St.Kilda board had never officially stated they would recruit him, but it was still a huge surprise to me that they decided against it. Brisbane had stated that if the St.Kilda board had decided to recruit him, then they would not have stood in the way of that occurring, so he would have certainly been a Saint.

I think though the timing was bad, very bad. Having just released our membership drive, to have a bad reaction like this is terrible for the club. It is shattering but we gotta move on.

Again, for all of those strong indications to be turned around in the space of a day must be shattering for those St.Kilda supporters that wanted him to be at the club, and from what I can understand, is the high majority of them. Maybe his hamstrings were a concern, but St.Kilda has a lack of quality youth, and they desperately need an established and highly skilled player to somehow replace Robert Harvey. The timing with the national draft only a few days away is bad, and I agree that it could effect membership sales. At least initially. I'm sure supporters, members, and potential members want an explanation.

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

Ooh, this annoys me.

While I recognise that Carroll isn't a Brownlow medalist etc, we forget that before 2007, he was considered a fine backman. He fell off the wagon from then on, I suspect partly because of the change in coach (that sometimes affects players significantly) at Melbourne. He completely went off the rails, and his footy suffered for it.

Now here's the difference between Carroll and Cousins: one was repenant, the other one wasn't. In other words, one recognises that they've stuffed up, and wants to change. The other doesn't.

Ironically, the reason we can tell is because of them actually doing the very same thing. Cousins got rid of his hair to dodge the test, or to simply stick his finger up at the AFL - either way, that reeks of not being repentant. Carroll has also shaved his head and his facial hair, but for an entirely different reason. That hair and ridiculous beard were a reflection of his attitude, and he wanted to make a clear statement that his attitude had changed. He also said what Cousins never has - that his addiction (in this case, alcohol) is HIS responsibility, and he is willing to change. Cousins has flirted around that all the while, as the Greg Baum article makes abundantly clear.

I'll take a repentant Carroll looking to resurrect his career (remember, resurrection is all about dying to something and being renewed to a new life), over a Cousins who is blinded by his own arrogance. I'll do that any day of the week, thankyou.

Let's just have a look at Nathan Carroll :

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/dees-face-fight-to-axe-carroll/2008/09/30/1222651083339.html

Melbourne's football lieutenants recently briefed the club's board on the Carroll situation, suggesting the player had allegedly racially vilified a staff member, drunkenly directed a series of highly personal and sexist comments to a number of players and failed on a number of occasions to adequately prepare for senior football.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...y-off-the-booze/2008/11/01/1224956408384.html

Obviously, there's been a few allegations going around about my behaviour and I understand that they're all alcohol-related. At the moment, I'm not drinking, I'm just training, and that's pretty easily fixed — you've got to watch your drinking and just pick the right moment and pick the right spots to drink at. I don't think that's much of an issue, it's just something I've got to be aware of.

Now I obviously don't want to compare alcohol with amphetamines, but I don't think that saying that not drinking 'at the moment' and to be aware to 'just pick the right moment and pick the right spots to drink' sounds very repentant if you know the effects alcohol has on you.

I cannot remember Cousins saying that he's not using drugs 'at the moment' and will have to be aware 'just pick the right moment and pick the right spots to take drugs'. He has been honest to say that he cannot guarantee that he will not relapse - anybody knowing a bit about drugs will know that this is important for all recovering addicts to know and to conststantly remind themselves of.

The Greg Baum article annoys me. It is hypocritical and that of someone who wants to see the former star fall and fall as deep as he can. Ben Cousins has admitted that he had a drug problem (which is difficult enough and which is the first and most important step for anyone to recover from addiction) and has been honest enough to admit that this will be a life long problem for him. He is not a saint (no pun intended) and it is not his job to make this society a better place. He has stayed out of the media and, for all we know, has concentrated on this rehabilitation (his urine tests over the last weeks were negative). Imagine what Greg Baum (and most of his attention hundry colleagues) would have had to say in the event of weekly Ben Cousins interviews (which, of course, they would have happily braodcasted, re-produced and commented on) ?

But all of this is irrelevant anyway for the Nathan Carroll matter, right ? It is after all the best draft for ten years and we want to focus on youth !

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If I had to play football for Melbourne I would be on at least one bottle of Vodka per day!

 

[ytpme]

Why don't you bugger off back to your own board?

Believe me that will be a far greater pleasure than being here.

Load of hypocrites...two years ago you were all calling for him to be banned from the AFL and hung, drawn and quartered.

 

[King Elvis]

My son who is almost 9 asks me today, ''Dad, you said Ben Cousins was a loser because he took drugs when he was at West Coast, does that mean he isnt a loser just because he might play at the Saints?'' Kids dont need scumbags for role models, they are our future and I for one am glad my kids wont worship this guy.

Lucky that you're his father then, and not Ben Cousins, and it's your job to teach him right from wrong, and not Ben Cousins.

 

[krusden]

Believe me that will be a far greater pleasure than being here.

Load of hypocrites...two years ago you were all calling for him to be banned from the AFL and hung, drawn and quartered.

actually, fool, I wasn't on the board two years ago as you can see from my join date so don't lump me in with the "hypocrites".

 

[Fehring]

Where there's smoke......

Although the process turned into a saga by the end, (shame Roy couldn't punch more people in pubs and take the spotlight) I think the right decision has ultimately been made. Cousins is a smart arse that will learn the hard way that he should have pulled his head in a long time ago.

He said earlier this year he was not ashamed of his drug problem. Sorry mate, you and your ego don't fit into St Kilda's plans. I think the board saw a wolf in sheep's clothing. If you stuff up, you have to earn people's trust and admit fault. Can anyone tell me they see a repentant young man?

Where there's a board full of tools...

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Agree with the original post.

I was ropeable when I heard the news last night. A weak decision no matter how Archie & co spin it. Typical St Kilda. Reach for mediocrity.

If Carroll gets drafted now we will know for sure that our club is run by monkeys.

The crap that members are fed by this mob is astounding. Youth policy, great draft, 3-4 year plan...BS Why did they give up a 2nd round pick in a super strong draft for a bloke that

a) has never done anything
b) was going to walk out on his club anyway
c) could have been got for a straight swap in the 3rd round.

Watch the Bulldogs use our pick & land a quality young player while Farren Ray is in & out of the side like Fiora & co.

They disgust me with their spin & inability to talk straight. Frankston, Seaford, reserved seating & now this.

I'll still be a member and pay my blood money to the duds running the club & just hope that their ineptitude will pay off one day by them all getting chucked out & getting some quality people in there.

 

[Baker_for_PM]

One person cant make a team, Cuzz could of helped but thats it so will carroll if drafted but its the team as a group that will win us the flag remember that when you bag the board

 

[cracky]

Let's just have a look at Nathan Carroll :

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/dees-face-fight-to-axe-carroll/2008/09/30/1222651083339.html



http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...y-off-the-booze/2008/11/01/1224956408384.html



Now I obviously don't want to compare alcohol with amphetamines, but I don't think that saying that not drinking 'at the moment' and to be aware to 'just pick the right moment and pick the right spots to drink' sounds very repentant if you know the effects alcohol has on you.

I cannot remember Cousins saying that he's not using drugs 'at the moment' and will have to be aware 'just pick the right moment and pick the right spots to take drugs'. He has been honest to say that he cannot guarantee that he will not relapse - anybody knowing a bit about drugs will know that this is important for all recovering addicts to know and to conststantly remind themselves of.

The Greg Baum article annoys me. It is hypocritical and that of someone who wants to see the former star fall and fall as deep as he can. Ben Cousins has admitted that he had a drug problem (which is difficult enough and which is the first and most important step for anyone to recover from addiction) and has been honest enough to admit that this will be a life long problem for him. He is not a saint (no pun intended) and it is not his job to make this society a better place. He has stayed out of the media and, for all we know, has concentrated on this rehabilitation (his urine tests over the last weeks were negative). Imagine what Greg Baum (and most of his attention hundry colleagues) would have had to say in the event of weekly Ben Cousins interviews (which, of course, they would have happily braodcasted, re-produced and commented on) ?

But all of this is irrelevant anyway for the Nathan Carroll matter, right ? It is after all the best draft for ten years and we want to focus on youth !

This is correct.

 

[krusden]

One person cant make a team, Cuzz could of helped but thats it so will carroll if drafted but its the team as a group that will win us the flag remember that when you bag the board

- If one person had made a team we wouldve had a flag every year Plugger played for us.

 

[jackmac7]

Am shattered - it's all I can say really.

I believe in 2nd chances and whilst the waxing thing was totally irresponsible and arrogant it was an up yours to the AFL not to hide anything (well I'd like to think so).

Poor to lead Ben on like this - he may not be an upstanding citizen but he deserved better!

I know, I'm devastated. Thats our in-experienced board for you staying in touch with their 'footy first' motto and then they do this. Go against the tide of really pushing hard for a flag in the next few years while Roo, Dal, hayes, Chips are all in there prime.

Ricky Nixon has to answer some questions for hiding him all the time instead of letting Ben speak for himself for a change. Cousins has never heard of the word 'Onerous' I bet. That's Ricky Nixon arrogance for you.

People can change and look how we turned M. Gardiner into the invisible man.

Oh well St Kilda.......... "Such is life"

 

[TTTT]

As much as im disappointed with the footy first decision i will leave my thoughts until after the draft.
I for 1 will be extreamly diappointed if we dont pick up Carroll as i believe the loss of dempster will hurt and we need another tough defender to play on the gorilla forwards.
Drafting carroll will allow us to use Chips and goddard through the middle and creating the play instead of playing above there weight.
Just to finish i would have thought we were a third tall short of really giving it our best shot surprised the names of Davis and Petifer havnt been linked to us

 

[ljm2]

As much as im disappointed with the footy first decision i will leave my thoughts until after the draft.
I for 1 will be extreamly diappointed if we dont pick up Carroll as i believe the loss of dempster will hurt and we need another tough defender to play on the gorilla forwards.
Drafting carroll will allow us to use Chips and goddard through the middle and creating the play instead of playing above there weight.
Just to finish i would have thought we were a third tall short of really giving it our best shot surprised the names of Davis and Petifer havnt been linked to us

I dont think pettifer has been delisted