News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

[Smokeyr67]

I wasn't even aware debating teams existed in Australian public schools

Often the debating en masse.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Just so I get this right in my head.

Both JT and Keefe can't train with us for all of 2016.

So we give them a training program I guess but can we keep tabs of their progress through fitness tests either through the club or engage an independent consultant. How's this work?

 

[jmac70]

Just so I get this right in my head.

Both JT and Keefe can't train with us for all of 2016.

So we give them a training program I guess but can we keep tabs of their progress through fitness tests either through the club or engage an independent consultant. How's this work?

Not sure what involvement the club is allowed to have with them during the ban. I'm sure the expectation from the club will be that when they return they are in peak condition. Hopefully they can use this year to get to a physical level that gives them the best chance of doing something meaningful for Collingwood in 2017 and beyond. If any player owed a club it is these two.

 

[TradeDraft]

Surprise Keeffe was Drafted in 1st Round. Must of been Scared someone else would take.

I still would of Picked him in the 3rd and Thomas even when he comes back but I doubt he play much AFL Again

 

[jmac70]

Surprise Keeffe was Drafted in 1st Round. Must of been Scared someone else would take.

I still would of Picked him in the 3rd and Thomas even when he comes back but I doubt he play much AFL Again

It really doesn't matter now. The club made a commitment and was true to its word. Time to move on.

 

[Kilmo]

Surprise Keeffe was Drafted in 1st Round. Must of been Scared someone else would take.

I still would of Picked him in the 3rd and Thomas even when he comes back but I doubt he play much AFL Again

Best available at that pick

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Just so I get this right in my head.

Both JT and Keefe can't train with us for all of 2016.

So we give them a training program I guess but can we keep tabs of their progress through fitness tests either through the club or engage an independent consultant. How's this work?

None of this is news. If the boys don't present themselves in decent condition by this time next year they won't be relisted. If they do, they are fr to join on training by approx december.

I'm sure the club will do everything legally possible to ensure they have a suitable fitness programme in the meantime

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Keefe with his height is good depth
Thomas will find himself deep late in the pecking order

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Just so I get this right in my head.

Both JT and Keefe can't train with us for all of 2016.

So we give them a training program I guess but can we keep tabs of their progress through fitness tests either through the club or engage an independent consultant. How's this work?

Can start training 6 months prior to the end date of their suspension

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Surprise Keeffe was Drafted in 1st Round. Must of been Scared someone else would take.

I still would of Picked him in the 3rd and Thomas even when he comes back but I doubt he play much AFL Again

They probably were concerned another team would pinch him. That and the fact that the other guys picked were going to easily be available later

 

[NT.Thunder]

None of this is news. If the boys don't present themselves in decent condition by this time next year they won't be relisted. If they do, they are fr to join on training by approx december.

I'm sure the club will do everything legally possible to ensure they have a suitable fitness programme in the meantime

It was a question, not a statement. I'm asking where is the line drawn in regards to "Not training with us". I'm interested in knowing what involvement the club can have either directly or indirectly with them both during there suspension period.

 

[MyManLynch]

It was a question, not a statement. I'm asking where is the line drawn in regards to "Not training with us". I'm interested in knowing what involvement the club can have either directly or indirectly with them both during there suspension period.

Don't know the answer.
The fact that we are allowed to draft them, employ them, list them...yet they are banned from playing or training until December 2016.
I assume we can train & test them away from our team.
Not sure if we can bring them into Holden centre for independent testing (away from team).
Can they use the gym...but not involve in any team activities.
It's a tricky one.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Don't know the answer.
The fact that we are allowed to draft them, employ them, list them...yet they are banned from playing or training until December 2016.
I assume we can train & test them away from our team.
Not sure if we can bring them into Holden centre for independent testing (away from team).
Can they use the gym...but not involve in any team activities.
It's a tricky one.

I'd love to know the boundaries or where to find them if someone does know.

 

[MyManLynch]

I'd love to know the boundaries or where to find them if someone does know.

Maybe it's a grey area, hence the club will just allow them to use facilities independently.
But no involvement in general training.
Who is going to monitor that (not ASADA surely)...oh wait, hang on...Caroline Wilson will monitor it...then do a front page write up in June next year.

 

[35Daicos]

I'd love to know the boundaries or where to find them if someone does know.

This seems to cover the subject pretty well:- http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/AFL-Anti-Doping-Code-2015-FINAL.pdf (page 41)

22.2 Return to Training
As an exception to clause 22.1, a Player may return to train with a team or to use the facilities of a club or other member organisation of a Signatory’s member organisation during the shorter of:
(a) the last two (2) months of the Player’s period of Ineligibility; or
(b) the last one-quarter of the period of Ineligibility imposed.41

40 For example, subject to clause 22.2, an Ineligible Player cannot participate in a training camp, exhibition or practice.
The term ’activity’ also includes, for example, administrative activities, such as serving as an official, director, officer, employee, or volunteer
of the organisation described in this clause. Ineligibility imposed in one sport shall also be recognised by other sports.

41 A Player cannot effectively train on his or her own so as to be ready to compete at the end of the Player’s period of Ineligibility.
During the training period described in this Clause, an Ineligible Player may not compete or engage in any activity described in Clause
22.1 other than training.

Edit: Almost certainly it should say can instead of cannot.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Merge threads?

 

[35Daicos]

Ryan Crowley was obviously doing some form of training while suspended, so I'm quite bewildered about what I've just read and posted. There's no way they could stop athletes from keeping themselves fit, that would be inhuman:-

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-...training-as-freo-gets-good-news-on-ballantyne

Crowley said training on his own had been tough.

"It was obviously quite difficult," he said. "I tried to keep everything as normal as I possibly could.

"I stuck to my weight programs and did my own running and found people to have a kick with."

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

They can return to full training on 9 Dec 2016 so pretty much get a full preseason.

I'm not sure what the rules are but obviously they cant train with players or staff or use the facilities in the meantime.

Beyond that I'm sure they can have training plans mapped out for them and they can utilise personal trainers to keep them under the pump. Lots of opportunity for the club to provide some assistance along the way but at the end of the day it will be up to them. We will have to be allowed to surely test them, especially before draft ...we cant be expected to resign them sight unseen.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Ryan Crowley was obviously doing some form of training while suspended, so I'm quite bewildered about what I've just read and posted. There's no way they could stop athletes from keeping themselves fit, that would be inhuman:-

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-...training-as-freo-gets-good-news-on-ballantyne

Crowley said training on his own had been tough.

"It was obviously quite difficult," he said. "I tried to keep everything as normal as I possibly could.

"I stuck to my weight programs and did my own running and found people to have a kick with."

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense 41 A Player cannot effectively train on his or her own so as to be ready to compete at the end of the Player’s period of Ineligibility. But I don't think I'm reading it right. That to me says that the players can't train and be in a position to be ready to compete on completion of their sentence.

So what are they supposed to just hang around home, being bored which will probably lead right back to this mess they found themselves in the first place.

 

[35Daicos]

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense 41 A Player cannot effectively train on his or her own so as to be ready to compete at the end of the Player’s period of Ineligibility. But I don't think I'm reading it right. That to me says that the players can't train and be in a position to be ready to compete on completion of their sentence.

So what are they supposed to just hang around home, being bored which will probably lead right back to this mess they found themselves in the first place.

I don't understand it, it makes no sense. It does appear to be saying that no form of training is allowed for suspended athletes, surely they'd at least be able to go for a jog every now and then, and Crowley has obviously done that and more!

 

[Pie eyed]

Keefe with his height is good depth
Thomas will find himself deep late in the pecking order

Given a full twelve months Thomas could come back a humongous beast with the skills of Daicos...

Just sayin.
We made a commitment, we are honoring it.

It sets us apart.
Side by Side.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

I don't understand it, it makes no sense. It does appear to be saying that no form of training is allowed for suspended athletes, surely they'd at least be able to go for a jog every now and then, and Crowley has obviously done that and more!

And IIRC Cousins was training like a beast during his AFL-imposed ban. (not ASADA).

Surely they wouldn't be allowed to stop them training - just limit how it is done. (ie. not with any sort of football club).

I hope/assume that there is something we can put in place to keep them under the guidance of the club.
Either the club provide trainers (or they privately pay for using the clubs trainers), or at least a training plan and diet plan etc.
Also would assume we would be looking at non-football things they may be able to do - such as training/higher learning courses, leadership, education stuff like that. I dont think a ban would cover those things as long as its not football related.

 

[MyManLynch]

This seems to cover the subject pretty well, if I'm reading it correctly and clause 40 & 41 both apply it looks as if they are not allowed to train on their own even, which I find staggering:-
http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/AFL-Anti-Doping-Code-2015-FINAL.pdf (page 41)

22.2 Return to Training
As an exception to clause 22.1, a Player may return to train with a team or to use the facilities of a club or other member organisation of a Signatory’s member organisation during the shorter of:
(a) the last two (2) months of the Player’s period of Ineligibility; or
(b) the last one-quarter of the period of Ineligibility imposed.41

40 For example, subject to clause 22.2, an Ineligible Player cannot participate in a training camp, exhibition or practice.
The term ’activity’ also includes, for example, administrative activities, such as serving as an official, director, officer, employee, or volunteer
of the organisation described in this clause. Ineligibility imposed in one sport shall also be recognised by other sports.

41 A Player cannot effectively train on his or her own so as to be ready to compete at the end of the Player’s period of Ineligibility.
During the training period described in this Clause, an Ineligible Player may not compete or engage in any activity described in Clause
22.1 other than training.

Clause 41
Surely it should read 'can' rather than 'cannot'.
How can you ban someone from jogging or doing weights.
Surely cannot be.

 

[jmac70]

Clause 41
Surely it should read 'can' rather than 'cannot'.
How can you ban someone from jogging or doing weights.
Surely cannot be.

Thomas may come back next December looking like this...

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Keefe with his height is good depth
Thomas will find himself deep late in the pecking order

Thomas will be Keefe's Shetland pony for another year.