News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

BEEG

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After speaking to some very well informed Collingwood "employees" and friends of the pair charged. Lachy Keefe and Josh Thomas took cocaine at the St Kilda festival (two days prior to test) and its a strong belief between the pair of them that a cutting agent in the coke they took was clenbuterol. This is a quite common practice for drug dealers as it elevates your heart rate dramatically (like cocaine) and when in powder form looks very similar. I don't care for a reply about whether someone thinks this is a bullshit post or not I'm just intrigued as to what would be the view if this was the case. Do ASADA and WADA ban them for 4 years or half that. Or if proven to be correct do they get let off for the performance enhancing drugs and the illicit drug falls under one of there strikes in the afl policy or... Do ASADA and WADA impose a ban still ? Thoughts
I posted this Thursday morning after spending a day Wednesday with someone who is employed by the club

So yes it's true
 

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DAWESOME!!

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Are people for real asking whether they can get off on the PED charge and take the illicit drug charge instead, if the cocaine story is true?

The WADA code has a strict liability requirement on the players. That means that if a PED is found in your body, you're treated as if you've stuffed up by having it there. The only way you might get out of that liability is to show that someone tampered with something you took/ingested that you had been told by WADA is OK for you to take.

Saying "I bought some cocaine, which I know is cut with whatever and certainly didn't consult the team doctor about, and lo and behold it turned out they used a PED in it" ain't going to be accepted as an excuse. As an athlete you are meant to know exactly what you're putting into your body and if you're buying an illicit drug from a dealer, there's no way you can satisfy yourself to the level you are meant to.

What that excuse would mean is that they might get 2 years rather than the 4 years that is the penalty when the tribunal is satisfied you've deliberately set out to cheat via PEDs.

It's incredibly important that WADA and the national anti-doping agencies stick to the strict liability principle, because every athlete who has ever been busted for doping anywhere in history has turned around and said they didn't mean to take it.

Personally, I think it's just as likely that they deliberately tried to cheat as it is that they got a contaminated batch of cocaine. I don't really see one scenario as any better than the other either, in terms of idiocy and deserving the consequence they're going to get. Unless of course the slim possibility that the B sample comes back negative or some other cause is identified.
 
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I am of the opinion the club were aware of what took place right from the start. I've thought that's why they took the hard line rather than blindly defend them as often happens.
Absolutely! We found out on the Friday then announced on the Monday. That's a whole weekend of damage control behind the scenes.

I really hope these events can galvanise the playing group in a positive way.
 

MyManLynch

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Indeed.

It probably wouldn't make much difference if it's 18 months or 4 years, it'd likely be career over regardless.
18 months from Feb 2015 is end August 2016 i.e 2 seasons...so doubtful they would play AFL again (considering they are not definite best 22 - probably best 20-30 range).
Others will step in. Very sad for them both...however they apparently only have themselves to blame.
Charlie will now be off the list for many young AFL footballers.
 
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There farked what a shame thus was make or break this year for both players....theres gonna be times this year we miss keefe and were already missing thomas......we should be able to draft two blokes from othwr leagues
Quite sad, you wouldnt meet a nicer, gentler bloke than Lachy Keefe. Yes he ****** up but isnt it ironic you have players get right of weekend after weekend all year round for the majority of there careers and quite a lot will at worst recieve one strike which no one knows about and then you got this kid who's taken it a couple of times if that (mind you probably given to him by one of the senior players he was with) and now he's afl career is effectively over, not to mention the smear campaign he'll cop from every keyboard warrior and journo under the sun about being a druggy and spud footyplayer. Life's lessons are learnt in pain.. he will unfortunately find that out the hard way
 

THATSGOLD

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I have it on reliable information that a performance enhancing drug scandal involving two Collingwood players will break later today.

I know who the two players are but will refrain from naming them at the moment.

I guess this thread will be deleted, but can it please be reinstated once the story breaks.
How did you find out?
 

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Anzacday

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My suggestion is not to name any of our players EVER.
It's not our job to dob on or speculate about our own players.
Once a name is out there it's guilt by association and the circus comes to our town.
popin if you do know and drafted hawk wants to know, (as if he doesn't already) then PM him.
I personally don't need to know and I don't want the whole world to know.
 
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Baltimore Jack

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Quite sad, you wouldnt meet a nicer, gentler bloke than Lachy Keefe. Yes he stuffed up but isnt it ironic you have players get right of weekend after weekend all year round for the majority of there careers and quite a lot will at worst recieve one strike which no one knows about and then you got this kid who's taken it a couple of times if that (mind you probably given to him by one of the senior players he was with) and now he's afl career is effectively over, not to mention the smear campaign he'll cop from every keyboard warrior and journo under the sun about being a druggy and spud footyplayer. Life's lessons are learnt in pain.. he will unfortunately find that out the hard way
......or he could just have refused to take the drugs.
I know its one of those way out there crazy ideas, but I'm a bit like that
 

Pendles!

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Haha no doubt! Lets hope it stays that way we dont want anymore Collingwood names on the front pages.

If the story is true though the other players have just had a near death experience. Hopefully its a massive wake up call for them.
How long does it stay in your system? Would be surprised is Asada didn't drug test the whole playing group after they found the two thT tested positive.
 

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How long does it stay in your system? Would be surprised is Asada didn't drug test the whole playing group after they found the two thT tested positive.
My too. Would seem to be the logical thing to do. My guess however is that it takes a couple of weeks to get the samples analysed, by which time the traces in other people who took drugs at the same time would be well and truly gone. But still worth doing before you let anyone know there's an issue in case people are doing it regularly.
 

didaksrightfoot

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18 months from Feb 2015 is end August 2016 i.e 2 seasons...so doubtful they would play AFL again (considering they are not definite best 22 - probably best 20-30 range).
Others will step in. Very sad for them both...however they apparently only have themselves to blame.
Charlie will now be off the list for many young AFL footballers.
18 months is not that long.
By mid next year, they would be 25 and 26 respectively... and because they wouldn't be out of the game due to an injury, it would be up to them to keep their body fit and healthy and in the best shape to return. They will need to play the rest of 2016, and maybe 2017, on a VFL or other 2nd tier list... but if they do the right things there would still be an opportunity for them to come back and have a few more years on an AFL list. (not saying it would be Collingwood)
Cousins, Krak and Saad all got back into the AFL, and guys like Dwyer, Pods, and Brett Goodes have all shown that the door is open for mature age recruits to have a reasonable career.
 

soreplums

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18 months is not that long.
By mid next year, they would be 25 and 26 respectively... and because they wouldn't be out of the game due to an injury, it would be up to them to keep their body fit and healthy and in the best shape to return. They will need to play the rest of 2016, and maybe 2017, on a VFL or other 2nd tier list... but if they do the right things there would still be an opportunity for them to come back and have a few more years on an AFL list. (not saying it would be Collingwood)
Cousins, Krak and Saad all got back into the AFL, and guys like Dwyer, Pods, and Brett Goodes have all shown that the door is open for mature age recruits to have a reasonable career.
They'll get picked up again. Particularly Keeffe who is a tall and will have another 12 months to fill out. A little more unsure over Thomas- could be rookied
 

DinoSoar

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How long does it stay in your system? Would be surprised is Asada didn't drug test the whole playing group after they found the two thT tested positive.
It's up to about 48hrs after use that it can be detected in a blood or urine sample. Interestingly on Talking Footy last night it was reported that in the AFL's annual drug testing report due to be issued shortly, 15 clubs returned positive hair samples when tested for illicit drugs and that only 3 had a clean bill of health. Volcanic offseason behaviour is indeed rampant across the entire AFL, long overdue for a change in the 3 strikes policy and the AFL & AFLPA need to pull their heads out of their own backsides to clean up the sport.
 

DrDavoren

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Not being a rec drug user I find it hard to comprehend that if you were somehow lucky enough to be drafted and then make it into the senior side of a high paying sport you would risk losing it all for some fun on the weekends.

What is wrong with alcohol? Or am I just getting too old these days.

Seems to be now who isn't using rather than who is!

Hope the competition are seeing what can transpire if you make foolish decisions.
Not many jobs which can set you up for life around, hope this is not the tip of the iceberg at our club.
 

ppoiter

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Not being a rec drug user I find it hard to comprehend that if you were somehow lucky enough to be drafted and then make it into the senior side of a high paying sport you would risk losing it all for some fun on the weekends.

What is wrong with alcohol? Or am I just getting too old these days.

Seems to be now who isn't using rather than who is!

Hope the competition are seeing what can transpire if you make foolish decisions.
Not many jobs which can set you up for life around, hope this is not the tip of the iceberg at our club.
The whole point is that they had no idea they were risking their careers at all. Cocaine and its metabolites leave the body fairly quickly, so you'd have to be tested within a few days to get caught and even if you do, you get three chances/strikes. If snorting coke was their thing I can see why they didnt think anything bad would come of it
 

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Are people for real asking whether they can get off on the PED charge and take the illicit drug charge instead, if the cocaine story is true?

The WADA code has a strict liability requirement on the players. That means that if a PED is found in your body, you're treated as if you've stuffed up by having it there. The only way you might get out of that liability is to show that someone tampered with something you took/ingested that you had been told by WADA is OK for you to take.

Saying "I bought some cocaine, which I know is cut with whatever and certainly didn't consult the team doctor about, and lo and behold it turned out they used a PED in it" ain't going to be accepted as an excuse. As an athlete you are meant to know exactly what you're putting into your body and if you're buying an illicit drug from a dealer, there's no way you can satisfy yourself to the level you are meant to.

What that excuse would mean is that they might get 2 years rather than the 4 years that is the penalty when the tribunal is satisfied you've deliberately set out to cheat via PEDs.

It's incredibly important that WADA and the national anti-doping agencies stick to the strict liability principle, because every athlete who has ever been busted for doping anywhere in history has turned around and said they didn't mean to take it.
Great post!

I don't get how people don't understand this.
 
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