News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

jasonwilde

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Not being a rec drug user I find it hard to comprehend that if you were somehow lucky enough to be drafted and then make it into the senior side of a high paying sport you would risk losing it all for some fun on the weekends.

What is wrong with alcohol?
Alcohol is generally fattening (ruining your skin-folds) and takes longer for you to recover than coke.

In terms of fitness sense, a professional athlete is much better off having a few lines of coke than a few beers.
 

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Baltimore Jack

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Did anyone catch the quick 'one liner' (pun intended) by Mike Sheehan when he was interviewing Bluey McKenna last night on Open Mike?
They were discussing the drug problem at WCE and what Bluey knew of it, Mike said "It has since come out that Ben Cousins has had a drug addiction since secondary school"
 

Anzacday

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Did anyone catch the quick 'one liner' (pun intended) by Mike Sheehan when he was interviewing Bluey McKenna last night on Open Mike?
They were discussing the drug problem at WCE and what Bluey knew of it, Mike said "It has since come out that Ben Cousins has had a drug addiction since secondary school"
James Clement says that why he hates him 'cos he's been a cheat since junior days.
 

McOrist

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Alcohol is generally fattening (ruining your skin-folds) and takes longer for you to recover than coke.

In terms of fitness sense, a professional athlete is much better off having a few lines of coke than a few beers.
Yeah..... really professional to take into your body something cooked up in some bloke's back yard and cut with anything they have available. Funny how some people are criticising Essendon for not knowing what they injected into their players, yet they are happy to trust some scumbag drug dealer.

Alcohol is fattening, but a few lines of coke is m'okay?? Spare me!
 

CFC2010

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The whole point is that they had no idea they were risking their careers at all. Cocaine and its metabolites leave the body fairly quickly, so you'd have to be tested within a few days to get caught and even if you do, you get three chances/strikes. If snorting coke was their thing I can see why they didnt think anything bad would come of it
Stupid question time ppoiter, please answer if possible.

Unless they were involved in the ""manufacturing" process of the cocaine then how would they know what was actually in the drug they "allegedly" took????

If the answer is they didn't manufacture the stuff then that is one very stupid roll of the dice in my eyes anyway!!!!
 

mattys123

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I think this statistic sums up how society has changed;

@clarerawlinson: Vic police say on average 1 in 12 drivers test positive for ice in targeted testing, compared to 1 in 674 for alcohol over the Easter wkend
15, maybe even 10 years ago the majority of players were going out and using alcohol as their "drug of choice", but now, Ice and drugs like Ice are so accessible that young men and women are using them at an alarming rate.

It's a problem the AFL has refused to respond to until now, if one positive will come out of Keeffe and JT being found to have PED's in their system through the use of illicit drugs, it will be that the AFL wakes the **** up and does something about it in regards to players use of illicit drugs.

Playing AFL is a privilege, if any player wants to misuse that privilege by using illicit drugs, they should get one warning then the second warning be a suspension, and a third strike being ban for life, no exceptions.
 

didaksrightfoot

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Are people for real asking whether they can get off on the PED charge and take the illicit drug charge instead, if the cocaine story is true?

The WADA code has a strict liability requirement on the players. That means that if a PED is found in your body, you're treated as if you've stuffed up by having it there. The only way you might get out of that liability is to show that someone tampered with something you took/ingested that you had been told by WADA is OK for you to take.

Saying "I bought some cocaine, which I know is cut with whatever and certainly didn't consult the team doctor about, and lo and behold it turned out they used a PED in it" ain't going to be accepted as an excuse. As an athlete you are meant to know exactly what you're putting into your body and if you're buying an illicit drug from a dealer, there's no way you can satisfy yourself to the level you are meant to.

What that excuse would mean is that they might get 2 years rather than the 4 years that is the penalty when the tribunal is satisfied you've deliberately set out to cheat via PEDs.

It's incredibly important that WADA and the national anti-doping agencies stick to the strict liability principle, because every athlete who has ever been busted for doping anywhere in history has turned around and said they didn't mean to take it.

Personally, I think it's just as likely that they deliberately tried to cheat as it is that they got a contaminated batch of cocaine. I don't really see one scenario as any better than the other either, in terms of idiocy and deserving the consequence they're going to get. Unless of course the slim possibility that the B sample comes back negative or some other cause is identified.
The arguement they could be making is that they took a drug expecting it to be cocaine... It is different than taking something which has a list of known ingredients or a known producer who could be questioned. They could in fact argue that someone else has "tampered with" the cocaine they bought by cutting in with Clen.

That is not a moral excuse... But there is potential that it could be a valid legal one... And given the AFLs soft illicit drug policy that may be their best bet to get a reduced sentence.

Personally i want them to get done. I think it will be a strong lesson to all footballers and to them as individuals. For the club, yes it would be good to get them off somehow but what message would that be sending to them and others?
 

Anzacday

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It's not hard to go through the VFL list and find who the AFL listed players were on Saturday morning that popin was referring to.
It is absolute rubbish that the club demoted players to the VFL this week as a result of the positive drug tests and for popin to suggest that may have happened without knowledge of it being a fact was poor taste. The fact he didn't want to "name" then (when he basically already did) shows he also knows it was a poor call to make the connection between the two. I don't need him to PM me any of the thoughts he has on this case or any other happenings inside the walls of the CFC.
Fair enough.
Must admit I haven't given it any thought and really can't be bothered to be honest.
I appreciate you have inside mail etc and I don't know whether you are actually a supporter, (no offence).
I am a life-long supporter and I just can't see the point in baiting someone to put it out there for all and sundry to know as it can only be to the detriment of the club and it's supporters.
 

ppoiter

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Stupid question time ppoiter, please answer if possible.

Unless they were involved in the ""manufacturing" process of the cocaine then how would they know what was actually in the drug they "allegedly" took????

If the answer is they didn't manufacture the stuff then that is one very stupid roll of the dice in my eyes anyway!!!!
They wouldnt have had any idea. No one who takes drugs 'as bought' from drug dealers knows. There are testing kits available but as far as Im aware they dont necessarily give you much info apart from purity, the only way to tell for sure would be to take it to a lab and test it yourself. Anyone who buys drugs from a street dealer should assume they contain various miscellaneous substances, it was just bad luck for them that they (allegedly) snorted a batch containing PEDs and were tested shortly after
 

McOrist

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The arguement they could be making is that they took a drug expecting it to be cocaine... It is different than taking something which has a list of known ingredients or a known producer who could be questioned. They could in fact argue that someone else has "tampered with" the cocaine they bought by cutting in with Clen.

That is not a moral excuse... But there is potential that it could be a valid legal one... And given the AFLs soft illicit drug policy that may be their best bet to get a reduced sentence.

Personally i want them to get done. I think it will be a strong lesson to all footballers and to them as individuals. For the club, yes it would be good to get them off somehow but what message would that be sending to them and others?
It's hard to mount a valid legal case when you're purchasing unregulated, illegal substances. Caveat emptor.
 

DrDavoren

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The whole point is that they had no idea they were risking their careers at all. Cocaine and its metabolites leave the body fairly quickly, so you'd have to be tested within a few days to get caught and even if you do, you get three chances/strikes. If snorting coke was their thing I can see why they didnt think anything bad would come of it
Still if they are professional surely they would leave it to off season to do?
Wouldn't have thought it was too much, I can't have alcohol in my system when working and only small amount when driving.

I wouldn't risk losing my house, job, licence for the sake of a few lines or getting on it.
But that's just me.

If they have no idea that is a huge issue, WTF are the clubs telling them then!?!
I would imagine the club lays the law down and the players think she'll be right or I won't get caught.

Either way big changes needed in our game and society to a degree.
 

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PepperFace

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Im 30. I have hit the pub/club scene since i was 17 (not so much in the past 5 years). But i have genuinely been offered cocaine just the once.....and that was when i was in Cambodia by some tuktuk driver who was probably just trying to make a living. Everyone says drugs are so acessible these days but i never see them.....what am i doing wrong? (Or right).
 

CFC2010

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I don't mean to sound selfish but I don't care about the other clubs.

If this doesn't change the "behaviour" at OUR club then nothing will.

All the education in the world and they still went down this path and they are the cleanskins apparently!!!!
 

Kilmo

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Not being a rec drug user I find it hard to comprehend that if you were somehow lucky enough to be drafted and then make it into the senior side of a high paying sport you would risk losing it all for some fun on the weekends.

What is wrong with alcohol? Or am I just getting too old these days.

Seems to be now who isn't using rather than who is!

Hope the competition are seeing what can transpire if you make foolish decisions.
Not many jobs which can set you up for life around, hope this is not the tip of the iceberg at our club.
It's a lot harder for players to get drunk on the weekends and still perform at a high level - yet they can take other party drugs and be right for Monday morning.

Im 30. I have hit the pub/club scene since i was 17 (not so much in the past 5 years). But i have genuinely been offered cocaine just the once.....and that was when i was in Cambodia by some tuktuk driver who was probably just trying to make a living. Everyone says drugs are so acessible these days but i never see them.....what am i doing wrong? (Or right).
I guess with AFL players it is that they all of a sudden have a lot of mates who are young and have a lot of money and essentially no expenses = a lot of disposable income. Also seeing as they don't drink as much as a lot of people their age who aren't professional athletes, that saves a lot of money too.
 

Kilmo

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I think this statistic sums up how society has changed;



15, maybe even 10 years ago the majority of players were going out and using alcohol as their "drug of choice", but now, Ice and drugs like Ice are so accessible that young men and women are using them at an alarming rate.

It's a problem the AFL has refused to respond to until now, if one positive will come out of Keeffe and JT being found to have PED's in their system through the use of illicit drugs, it will be that the AFL wakes the **** up and does something about it in regards to players use of illicit drugs.

Playing AFL is a privilege, if any player wants to misuse that privilege by using illicit drugs, they should get one warning then the second warning be a suspension, and a third strike being ban for life, no exceptions.
Sorry but I flat out refuse to believe that stat, no way 8% of people tested were on ice over the weekend...
 

PepperFace

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I guess with AFL players it is that they all of a sudden have a lot of mates who are young and have a lot of money and essentially no expenses = a lot of disposable income. Also seeing as they don't drink as much as a lot of people their age who aren't professional athletes, that saves a lot of money too.
Yes thats true....but even guys I work with in thier 40's reckon they and their mates would ping all the time on weekends and cannot believe I have never seen/been offered drugs. I genuinley wouldnt know where to go to get some whereas everyone else seems to think taking drugs on a weekend is somewhat acceptable behavior.
 

Kirby

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Sorry but I flat out refuse to believe that stat, no way 8% of people tested were on ice over the weekend...
It's "targeted testing" which means that they only tested people who they were suspicious were on ice when pulled pover for a breath test. So, of those people they were suspicious of 8% returned a positive test.

Beware of random statistics!!
 

morelli89

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Im 30. I have hit the pub/club scene since i was 17 (not so much in the past 5 years). But i have genuinely been offered cocaine just the once.....and that was when i was in Cambodia by some tuktuk driver who was probably just trying to make a living. Everyone says drugs are so acessible these days but i never see them.....what am i doing wrong? (Or right).
If you're looking for them its very easy to find them. Its not like a dealer is going to tell everyone in a club that he has drugs in case it somehow gets back to the bouncers (in some cases they run the dealers) or the police
 

Kappa

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Im 30. I have hit the pub/club scene since i was 17 (not so much in the past 5 years). But i have genuinely been offered cocaine just the once.....and that was when i was in Cambodia by some tuktuk driver who was probably just trying to make a living. Everyone says drugs are so acessible these days but i never see them.....what am i doing wrong? (Or right).
In my experience it's very rarely just randomly offered to someone the dealer has never seen before.

They mostly come about from a "friend of a friend" scenario, the dealers mates tell their mates hey you wanna try this? If you hang around with a pretty "cleanskin" group of friends and stay clear of dodgy venues it's pretty rare to notice drugs (all though they will still be around).

Have friends who work at an up market night club and I could name you 10 past and present Collingwood players who have been witnessed getting up to this stuff.

Quite a few have been pushed out of the club in recent years though which is proof the club DOES know exactly what is happening, they just don't want to make it public knowledge to protect the brand.
 

Obese Arachnid

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It's possible to go to the St Kilda festival and not get blotto or off the face?

I've managed it myself - wasn't difficult.
Interesting, is there some sort of drug you could take to help with this?;):D
 

DrDavoren

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On a serious note will we get any compensation if they are rubbed out or do we only get to upgrade two on our current list.

I imagine they would be delisted if found guilty are we able to sign two more players if so whether rookies or whatever?
 

Kappa

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On a serious note will we get any compensation if they are rubbed out or do we only get to upgrade two on our current list.

I imagine they would be delisted if found guilty are we able to sign two more players if so whether rookies or whatever?
Be very surprised if we get compensation for having drug cheats on our team. Essendon were allowed to pick up some VFL players but only because they literally could not field a team without them and the show must go on. I think we will just be 2 players down for the year. The AFL might allow us to upgrade additional rookies, but can't see any of them getting a game.
 

robertg22

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On a serious note will we get any compensation if they are rubbed out or do we only get to upgrade two on our current list.

I imagine they would be delisted if found guilty are we able to sign two more players if so whether rookies or whatever?
No and nor should we be able to. Would just be rookies.
 
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