News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

jasonwilde

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Yeah..... really professional to take into your body something cooked up in some bloke's back yard and cut with anything they have available. Funny how some people are criticising Essendon for not knowing what they injected into their players, yet they are happy to trust some scumbag drug dealer.

Alcohol is fattening, but a few lines of coke is m'okay?? Spare me!
Look, don't get angry at me.

The guy asked why an athlete would choose coke over beer.

I tried to explain the choice.

You can get on your high horse as much as you want champ but please don't take stuff out of context.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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The arguement they could be making is that they took a drug expecting it to be cocaine... It is different than taking something which has a list of known ingredients or a known producer who could be questioned. They could in fact argue that someone else has "tampered with" the cocaine they bought by cutting in with Clen.

That is not a moral excuse... But there is potential that it could be a valid legal one... And given the AFLs soft illicit drug policy that may be their best bet to get a reduced sentence.

Personally i want them to get done. I think it will be a strong lesson to all footballers and to them as individuals. For the club, yes it would be good to get them off somehow but what message would that be sending to them and others?
There's no way ASADA or anyone else would accept that excuse. As you say, it's different from taking something with a known producer and reliable list of ingredients. In fact, that would be the line of questions:
1) You attended briefings where they explained strict liability, yes?
2) Did the cocaine you took meet any of the standards necessary for you to have satisfied that responsibility?
3) For instance, did you know exactly what was in it?
4) Did you know who prepared and where?
5) Given you should have had doubts about its fit with the WADA code, did you consult with ASADA or your team doctor before taking it?
6) You're not very smart, are you?

ASADA and WADA will hold to the position that there is no foolproof way of knowing exactly what is in any illicit drugs you take, and therefore you mustn't take them due to the risk of copping some PEDs.
 

McOrist

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It will be more difficult for the club if the B sample is negative. A positive test means we can move them on without addressing the illicit drugs issue.
I would have thought that sacking them actually directly addresses the illicit drugs issue. If they returned the positive clen test due to it being mixed in with illicit drugs and they lose their careers over it, surely there couldn't be a stronger message to the rest of the players.
 

Bard

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Obviously we won't get 'compensation' and nor should we, but I wonder if we'll be able to elevate rookies in a similar means to the LTI? considering y'know we won't technically remove them from our lists until the list lodgements at the end of this season.
 

Kappa

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Obviously we won't get 'compensation' and nor should we, but I wonder if we'll be able to elevate rookies in a similar means to the LTI? considering y'know we won't technically remove them from our lists until the list lodgements at the end of this season.
Which rookies do you wanna promote? Manteit Cox and Abbott are still years away from AFL football, and Armstrong is behind Sinclair Ramsay Oxley Toovey Williams
 

Bard

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Which rookies do you wanna promote? Manteit Cox and Abbott are still years away from AFL football, and Armstrong is behind Sinclair Ramsay Oxley Toovey Williams
I don't have any in mind, but it might be handy down the track. Particularly when Macaffer and Greenwood come off the LTI list.
 

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Finnishpie

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Not being a rec drug user I find it hard to comprehend that if you were somehow lucky enough to be drafted and then make it into the senior side of a high paying sport you would risk losing it all for some fun on the weekends.

What is wrong with alcohol? Or am I just getting too old these days.

Seems to be now who isn't using rather than who is!

Hope the competition are seeing what can transpire if you make foolish decisions.
Not many jobs which can set you up for life around, hope this is not the tip of the iceberg at our club.
1. Alcohol is way harder to recover from.
2. Alcohol in large quantities makes you unable to do very much: talk, walk, etc, but cocaine you can stay up late, have a conversation, act fairly normally. (that's the reason lots of lawyers like it).

If you want to be a good AFL player, and you care about being the best player you can, health-wise you're much better having a night on the coke. (Amphetamines are different though).
 

jasonwilde

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1. Alcohol is way harder to recover from.
2. Alcohol in large quantities makes you unable to do very much: talk, walk, etc, but cocaine you can stay up late, have a conversation, act fairly normally. (that's the reason lots of lawyers like it).

If you want to be a good AFL player, and you care about being the best player you can, health-wise you're much better having a night on the coke. (Amphetamines are different though).
These are dangerous words around these parts. Ignore the fact that they are true...
 

jasonwilde

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1. Alcohol is way harder to recover from.
2. Alcohol in large quantities makes you unable to do very much: talk, walk, etc, but cocaine you can stay up late, have a conversation, act fairly normally. (that's the reason lots of lawyers like it).

If you want to be a good AFL player, and you care about being the best player you can, health-wise you're much better having a night on the coke. (Amphetamines are different though).
McOrist
 

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These are dangerous words around these parts. Ignore the fact that they are true...
I don't disagree with the points he made. Cocaine has significant negative effects, but so does the abuse of alcohol.

For me the sticking points re coke are that it's illegal. I'm not a fan of people just ignoring laws because they disagree with them/believe they are flawed. More practically, the fact it's illegal means that you're taking a big risk in terms of what you're taking, as quality control is pretty enforceable from a consumer's perspective. And of most concern, because it's illegal, you necessarily end up mixing with criminals to get and use your drugs, and creating all sorts of vulnerabilities that organised crime can exploit. That was the most serious finding of the "darkest day in sport" report that has been largely been overshadowed by the PED side of the equation.

Decriminalisation would fix a lot of these issues, but it remains the most remote of hypotheticals in Australia in the short term future, so arguing that it *should* be decriminalised is pretty irrelevant to talking about the practical implications of AFL players using.
 

NT.Thunder

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I thought the B Sample was supposed to be tested late last week or this week....are we expecting to know one way or another pretty soon?
 

DinoSoar

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I thought the B Sample was supposed to be tested late last week or this week....are we expecting to know one way or another pretty soon?
B sample test results due 14th April, but dont know if that's when the players, club and AFL get told or when it is released to the public. No doubt both will be within a very short period of time either way.
 

76woodenspooners

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There's no way ASADA or anyone else would accept that excuse. As you say, it's different from taking something with a known producer and reliable list of ingredients. In fact, that would be the line of questions:
1) You attended briefings where they explained strict liability, yes?
2) Did the cocaine you took meet any of the standards necessary for you to have satisfied that responsibility?
3) For instance, did you know exactly what was in it?
4) Did you know who prepared and where?
5) Given you should have had doubts about its fit with the WADA code, did you consult with ASADA or your team doctor before taking it?
6) You're not very smart, are you?

ASADA and WADA will hold to the position that there is no foolproof way of knowing exactly what is in any illicit drugs you take, and therefore you mustn't take them due to the risk of copping some PEDs.
This could signal the end of the three strikes policy.

There have been forces trying to reform this for years, this might now provide the impetus to act ... But first it'll have to be officially accepted that's what happened.
 

DrDavoren

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1. Alcohol is way harder to recover from.
2. Alcohol in large quantities makes you unable to do very much: talk, walk, etc, but cocaine you can stay up late, have a conversation, act fairly normally. (that's the reason lots of lawyers like it).

If you want to be a good AFL player, and you care about being the best player you can, health-wise you're much better having a night on the coke. (Amphetamines are different though).
If you care about being a AFL player the best best is to stay off all drugs and stimulants legal or illegal
 
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