News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

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Figured I'd check this thread for the first time in a while. I'm so glad I don't read it on a regular basis.

Also FWIW, the reason Holland makes weed and prostitution legal is because there is sweet **** all to do there, so if you weren't high you'd die of boredom. Is actually the most boring place on planet earth
 

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Figured I'd check this thread for the first time in a while. I'm so glad I don't read it on a regular basis.

Also FWIW, the reason Holland makes weed and prostitution legal is because there is sweet **** all to do there, so if you weren't high you'd die of boredom. Is actually the most boring place on planet earth
Gotta admit, I think there'll be more relevant discussion to be had once we get some more facts about what is going to happen with Keeffe and Thomas.
 

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Figured I'd check this thread for the first time in a while. I'm so glad I don't read it on a regular basis.

Also FWIW, the reason Holland makes weed and prostitution legal is because there is sweet **** all to do there, so if you weren't high you'd die of boredom. Is actually the most boring place on planet earth
I can't agree with you because I can't remember being there.
 

Apex36

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Diuretics are one of the classic masking agents. Shane Warne stuff, used by people who like Warne are actually cheats. Tell us about the illicit drugs that are masking agents
You considered Warne a cheat? I find it hard to believe he was using a diuretic to mask a PED given he walked in to bowl and fielded in the slips. It also happened to coincide with his dramatic weight loss in the tail end of his career.

He was dumb (still is), but I dont think he was a cheat.
 

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compulsory drug testing for recreational drugs should only be done where safety might be compromised..... mine sites....hospitals..... etc. If a football player is "high", the only safety concern is his own.....and as a responsible adult, he has made that choice. You shouldnt want to give away your freedoms and privacy just because someone in charge tells you that you should.
Um, NO – you’ve never seen a player injure someone else on the footy field? (intentionally or accidentally)

Oh & on reflection I realise that you might have just been meaning off field whilst my first thought was on field. Others have mentioned that consumption of something illegal can have safety concerns for others that we are not aware of eg through organised crime etc. That then opens discussion to legalisation of some drugs and I agree, the link you posted top of page 83 was worth a read. I think there is justification for debate on the topic (although footy forum not the best place for it so I'm trying to keep this brief), which would help people like me without a lot of knowledge on all the possible ramifications form a better informed opinion.
 

frizzle

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You considered Warne a cheat? I find it hard to believe he was using a diuretic to mask a PED given he walked in to bowl and fielded in the slips. It also happened to coincide with his dramatic weight loss in the tail end of his career.

He was dumb (still is), but I dont think he was a cheat.

I think most people at the time thought the masking agent was there because perhaps he was using something to speed his recovery from shoulder surgery around that time.
 
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You considered Warne a cheat? I find it hard to believe he was using a diuretic to mask a PED given he walked in to bowl and fielded in the slips. It also happened to coincide with his dramatic weight loss in the tail end of his career.

He was dumb (still is), but I dont think he was a cheat.
I am absolutely suspicious of Warne and the double standards we apply to cases like his. He was caught with a diuretic while he was recovering from a shoulder injury and in a race against the clock to be fit for the World Cup. It was a perfect senario for a steroid temptation and the diuretic was classically a steroid masking agent. That he was guilty without any reasonable excuse and only got a 1 year ban instead of 2 also stunk of secret deals. Having his mother up a being involved in giving him the tablet for appearance sake was another low point for me. Straight out of the MM book of deflection and using your family to hide behind. Have little respect for that.

Warne was also allowed to become a commentator during his ban and Cricket Australia even reversed part of the ban to allow him to play in celebrity matches. That was a shocking double standard and the truth was swept under the carpet. But it was "Warnie" so the public sucked it up and believed he was innocent. Rememeber he said he went to sleep and didnt listen in any drug lectures they had so he didnt know about the drug issue. And "Warnie" got away with that

Chuck in the "John the Bookmaker " episode and pretty sure you have some good evidence of cheating. Again because it was Warnie and Junior they were just sucking John in and giving him weather reports for cash. There was never going to be any cricket info given, after all those 2 are well known weather buffs. However when a Paki or Indian gave up info that was an unspeakable crime.

If you cant tell the double standards give me the sh-ts
 

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Hey there FinnishPie, yes there's definitely a moralistic angle to my view (eg in my view if it's illegal that should be the end of the story) but as I articulated before it's not the only basis for my opinion.

Thanks for engaging and sharing your views - it's a good thought-provoking thread.

Don't see us agreeing on this one though!
No worried. Good discussion!
 
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In a way, I think you're right. Issue is that legally it would be impossible to get up for the state to do that to everyone, whereas professional bodies and employers can impose extra restrictions legally. Hence my comment about the AFL doing what it can.

To be clear, my concerns aren't moralistic. I completely agree with the double standard between say alcohol and weed. I think some harder drugs are right to be illegal as they are more harmful.

My concerns are all around the practicalities. They are illegal and are unlikely to change in that regard. That means you're risking criminal charges, unsafe substances made outside of any regulation, and exposure and vulnerability to organised crime. I think the AFL and Collingwood are right to be very worried about each of those issues and be proactive to address them.

Maybe that's not how the world should be, but it's how it is, and so I think the club and comp are right to act that way. I also think Collingwood should have right of first redial on all promising 17 year old footballers,and that it should be an automatic free kick if an opponent tackles a Pies player. But I think it would be disastrous if our recruitment department and coaching staff ran their business around how I *think* the world should work.

Should add that I get where you're coming from - thanks for an interesting discussion. :thumbsu:
Yeah it is a good discussion. Whatever your opinion re these illicit drugs my view is random testing out of the normal workplace is a retrograde negative step. Its a really blunt object for what we are trying to achieve and has questionable results. Prohibition, punitive actions against users and a shrill outcry against those found positive by the masses , in this case the footy public, is just counterproductive.

If genuine there should be no public naming and shaming. Anyone with a dependence problem should be treated in confidence as all medical disorders should. We should drop the idea that because someone tests positive for using a drug that they need counselling and rehab. These are already stretched facilities in the community and are needed for those with a genuine problem. I just find the whole 3 strike policy a disaster and with Pollies and Administators making their decisions based on PR and other considerations rationality will never come to the fore.

I also strongly oppose your view that its good for employers and professional bodies to apply restrictions on their members as strongly as they can get away with. There should be limits on how employers and peak bodies apply restrictions and the 3 strike policy goes beyond this. Employers should not be delving into legal issues like illicit drug use outside their work place as they are not the body set up to deal with this even if you want the bans on illicit drugs to stand. That really opens a whole can of worms. They can in theory become a de facto policing force if they want to.I dont want that in an employer
 

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I am absolutely suspicious of Warne and the double standards we apply to cases like his. He was caught with a diuretic while he was recovering from a shoulder injury and in a race against the clock to be fit for the World Cup. It was a perfect senario for a steroid temptation and the diuretic was classically a steroid masking agent. That he was guilty without any reasonable excuse and only got a 1 year ban instead of 2 also stunk of secret deals. Having his mother up a being involved in giving him the tablet for appearance sake was another low point for me. Straight out of the MM book of deflection and using your family to hide behind. Have little respect for that.

Warne was also allowed to become a commentator during his ban and Cricket Australia even reversed part of the ban to allow him to play in celebrity matches. That was a shocking double standard and the truth was swept under the carpet. But it was "Warnie" so the public sucked it up and believed he was innocent. Rememeber he said he went to sleep and didnt listen in any drug lectures they had so he didnt know about the drug issue. And "Warnie" got away with that

Chuck in the "John the Bookmaker " episode and pretty sure you have some good evidence of cheating. Again because it was Warnie and Junior they were just sucking John in and giving him weather reports for cash. There was never going to be any cricket info given, after all those 2 are well known weather buffs. However when a Paki or Indian gave up info that was an unspeakable crime.

If you cant tell the double standards give me the sh-ts
Me too Warne was a cheat thats for ,the dumb public got sucked in there just like jobe and his 33 mates
 
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No, because I don't want my taxes to support some ice addict who has become so f'd in the head that he/she can't work/function properly anymore.
Do you think anyone wants that?

Still our current policy isn't working very well. I don't advocate complete legalisation but some decriminalisation may be effective and deserves to be looked at. In 100 years people will look back into the past and wonder why the people of the day ever thought the current drug policies would work much the same way we look at archaic practices in our past.

If good evidence could be produced showing decriminalisation ans other measures could bring around cost savings and allow dependant users to get better help therefore become more productive members of society and not such a drain on resources would you reconsider your support of such measures
 

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The only positive out of that article is that the new WADA code may not apply, so the maximum penalty would be 2 years and not 4. Extending that further if they can prove they didn't mean to take clen or that laced illicit drugs is an acceptable excuse they may only be facing a 12 month ban. If a 12 month ban was to occur they'd theoretically be available for round 1 next year, which would make for an interesting decision on their careers or careers at Collingwood.

The loop hole which is talked about, that every athlete would use the illicit drugs excuse to get off is easily closed simply treat illicit drugs like diuretics and other masking agents and make illicit drugs a banned out of competition substance too. By extension doing so would also end all conjecture around the AFL's 3 strike policy and use of these drugs by players would stop in an instant.
 

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The loop hole which is talked about, that every athlete would use the illicit drugs excuse to get off is easily closed simply treat illicit drugs like diuretics and other masking agents and make illicit drugs a banned out of competition substance too. By extension doing so would also end all conjecture around the AFL's 3 strike policy and use of these drugs by players would stop in an instant.
Yes x 1,000,000,000!
 

jmac70

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Do you think anyone wants that?

Still our current policy isn't working very well. I don't advocate complete legalisation but some decriminalisation may be effective and deserves to be looked at. In 100 years people will look back into the past and wonder why the people of the day ever thought the current drug policies would work much the same way we look at archaic practices in our past.

If good evidence could be produced showing decriminalisation ans other measures could bring around cost savings and allow dependant users to get better help therefore become more productive members of society and not such a drain on resources would you reconsider your support of such measures
No Australian government will ever have the courage to legalise drugs.
 

mattys123

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No Australian government will ever have the courage to legalise drugs.
A Lib/National government will never do it, but a Labor/Greens coalition (likely to win the next federal election) could possibly legalize some drugs in small areas as a study. The Greens will push for this for sure.

It would still be absolute ages until full public decriminilastion is introduced, would involve so many trials and research it would take years still.

It would be a good idea to legalise some drugs in an area where Ice use is high, as a trial of course.
 

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Um, NO – you’ve never seen a player injure someone else on the footy field? (intentionally or accidentally)

Oh & on reflection I realise that you might have just been meaning off field whilst my first thought was on field. Others have mentioned that consumption of something illegal can have safety concerns for others that we are not aware of eg through organised crime etc. That then opens discussion to legalisation of some drugs and I agree, the link you posted top of page 83 was worth a read. I think there is justification for debate on the topic (although footy forum not the best place for it so I'm trying to keep this brief), which would help people like me without a lot of knowledge on all the possible ramifications form a better informed opinion.
What I was saying was that it was unlikely that a player under the influence of drugs is going to hurt another player any worse or more often, than a player who doesnt take drugs. While druggies might get violent at home or in a club or even in their workplace, there is limited opportunity to get "more violent" on the footy field. The concern for other players has never been mentioned in the AFL drugs policy....because there is no reasonable concern. The concern is for the player taking the drugs.....and what I'm saying, and a few others are saying, is that the AFL should leave illicit drugs alone and test for performance enhancing drugs because these drugs allow a player to cheat. It is unfair on other players...
 

Markfs

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No, because I don't want my taxes to support some ice addict who has become so f'd in the head that he/she can't work/function properly anymore.
Que? Legalisation doesnt mean governments are going to support ice addicts any more. Governments already spend a ton of money on rehabilitation and policing. Legalisation could be done in a way that it looks a little like the tobacco industry, where taxes on the drug could be used to fund the health costs etc.

I've seen comments where people say that they might agree with legalisation if there is some proof that it works.... all I can say is that there is overwhelming proof that the current system doesnt work.
 

Markfs

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Figured I'd check this thread for the first time in a while. I'm so glad I don't read it on a regular basis.

Also FWIW, the reason Holland makes weed and prostitution legal is because there is sweet **** all to do there, so if you weren't high you'd die of boredom. Is actually the most boring place on planet earth
I went to holland many years ago and i've known a few dutch people, so I'll throw my two cents in. I agree that making weed and prostitution legal in holland might work there but not in Australia. However, I disagree with your reason. I've found Dutch people to be independent educated types - in general. In contrast, the majority of Australians are the direct opposite...which is probably why Australians are the biggest users of "recreational" drugs in the world.
 

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A Lib/National government will never do it, but a Labor/Greens coalition (likely to win the next federal election) could possibly legalize some drugs in small areas as a study. The Greens will push for this for sure.

It would still be absolute ages until full public decriminilastion is introduced, would involve so many trials and research it would take years still.

It would be a good idea to legalise some drugs in an area where Ice use is high, as a trial of course.
When did Labor and The Greens become a coalition?
 
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