News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

Hagla

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Mate, that doesn't make sense at all. Your taxes are now going to an unwinnable war - a kind of street-drug-Iraq. I'd worry about that if I were you.
Lol, that doesn't worry me in the slightest. I'd be more worried if nobody did anything, ISIS would be in control of half the world by now if nobody fought back. Yes it's easier to let someone else do the fighting but the easiest solution isn't always the right solution.
 

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Kilmo

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I'd be happy to go the complete opposite direction and have everyone tested for drugs before they can receive any government services whatsoever. If they test positive then they don't get any money or medical treatment or anything. glory be it, they can go to jail for all I care, actually bring back the death penalty so we don't have to pay for their jail time. I couldn't give a glory be about them.
Jesus...

There are any number of reasons people turn to drugs, we should help them not kill them...
 

Hagla

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Jesus...

There are any number of reasons people turn to drugs, we should help them not kill them...
Haha yeah, I don't even agree with it and I wrote it. There were a few suggestions that drugs should just be legalised because that would fix everything... I just thought I'd suggest the opposite. I can see reasons to legalise marijuana but I think we'd be f'd as a nation if we ever legalised hard drugs.
 

Kilmo

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Haha yeah, I don't even agree with it and I wrote it. There were a few suggestions that drugs should just be legalised because that would fix everything... I just thought I'd suggest the opposite. I can see reasons to legalise marijuana but I think we'd be f'd as a nation if we ever legalised hard drugs.
Portugal is an interesting case study, where they decriminalised all illegal drugs in 2000.
Drug policy of Portugal

Observations since 2000:
  • Increased uptake of treatment.
  • Reduction in new HIV diagnoses amongst drug users
  • Reduction in drug related deaths
  • Drug use among adolescents (13-15 yrs) and "problematic" users declined
  • Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased
  • Decreased street value of most illicit drugs
Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased, however if you're no longer a criminal for admitting you take drugs then it makes sense.



However us Australian's tend to be morons so you're right we'd probably find a way to screw it up.
 

Finnishpie

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Lol, that doesn't worry me in the slightest. I'd be more worried if nobody did anything, ISIS would be in control of half the world by now if nobody fought back. Yes it's easier to let someone else do the fighting but the easiest solution isn't always the right solution.
Yeah, but the places with the lest drug-related crime in the world, and with hardly any deaths, are places where they legalised and regulated it. That's because they knew that people would take it anyway, so if that's the case, how do you take the crime, violence and self-harm from it?

See for example this: http://www.thefix.com/content/decrim-nation-portugal-ten-years-later

If it was decriminalised here, we'd have a lot fewer problems.
 

Finnishpie

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Portugal is an interesting case study, where they decriminalised all illegal drugs in 2000.
Drug policy of Portugal

Observations since 2000:
  • Increased uptake of treatment.
  • Reduction in new HIV diagnoses amongst drug users
  • Reduction in drug related deaths
  • Drug use among adolescents (13-15 yrs) and "problematic" users declined
  • Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased
  • Decreased street value of most illicit drugs
Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased, however if you're no longer a criminal for admitting you take drugs then it makes sense.



However us Australian's tend to be morons so you're right we'd probably find a way to screw it up.
I see someone got in before me....
 

frizzle

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This thread has been hijacked big time. There is pretty much no posts regarding Keeffe or Thomas anymore. Just a drugs v no drugs debate.
I keep checking the thread to see if anything new has happened with the boys or if anyone has any inside info, but always wish I didn't afterwards.
 

Kappa

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This thread has been hijacked big time. There is pretty much no posts regarding Keeffe or Thomas anymore. Just a drugs v no drugs debate.
I keep checking the thread to see if anything new has happened with the boys or if anyone has any inside info, but always wish I didn't afterwards.
You do realize there is going to be no new updates till the B sample right?

Once the B sample is released the boys will be sacked most likely and that's the end of it.
 

Number 10

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There are two major issues which are clear cut to me.

Number one: Keeffe and Thomas will (sadly) never play for Collingwood again.
Firstly, they are 99% likely to be suspended by ASADA.

Secondly, if, by the slim 1% chance they are not suspended by ASADA because the B sample comes back negative, then Collingwood will terminate their contracts. Whether supporters like it or not, Collingwood's stance on drugs is - if you want to take drugs, don't play football.

ASADA came to the club between the NZ trip and Round 1 and tested 4 players. Of those 4 players, two were Keeffe and Thomas. In other words, ASADA were tipped off that they had been doing some naughty things over the weekend.

If Collingwood want to make a stand against rec drugs and it is publicly known the Keeffe and Thomas took cocaine then they will terminate their contracts.

Number two: The real issue here is that Keeffe and Thomas have no defence in this case at all because they have taken drugs which were cut with Clenbuterol.

If they have no defence, what is stopping, lets call him Mick, putting this Clenbuterol in Scott Pendlebury's drink when he is out at a bar and then tipping off ASADA the next day claiming Pendles was taking cocaine? Nothing.

What is Pendlebury's defence? His drink was spiked. Sure, but ASADA's stance is that if it is in your system, you are suspended.

That's my issue with this topic. That there is no defence.

It's very sad that JT and Keeffe have gotten themselves into this. Having close connections with these two, I wouldn't have expected this from them. Keeffe especially... It's disappointing.
 

Lefthanded

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There are two major issues which are clear cut to me.

Number one: Keeffe and Thomas will (sadly) never play for Collingwood again.
Firstly, they are 99% likely to be suspended by ASADA.

Secondly, if, by the slim 1% chance they are not suspended by ASADA because the B sample comes back negative, then Collingwood will terminate their contracts. Whether supporters like it or not, Collingwood's stance on drugs is - if you want to take drugs, don't play football.

ASADA came to the club between the NZ trip and Round 1 and tested 4 players. Of those 4 players, two were Keeffe and Thomas. In other words, ASADA were tipped off that they had been doing some naughty things over the weekend.

If Collingwood want to make a stand against rec drugs and it is publicly known the Keeffe and Thomas took cocaine then they will terminate their contracts.

Number two: The real issue here is that Keeffe and Thomas have no defence in this case at all because they have taken drugs which were cut with Clenbuterol.

If they have no defence, what is stopping, lets call him Mick, putting this Clenbuterol in Scott Pendlebury's drink when he is out at a bar and then tipping off ASADA the next day claiming Pendles was taking cocaine? Nothing.

What is Pendlebury's defence? His drink was spiked. Sure, but ASADA's stance is that if it is in your system, you are suspended.

That's my issue with this topic. That there is no defence.

It's very sad that JT and Keeffe have gotten themselves into this. Having close connections with these two, I wouldn't have expected this from them. Keeffe especially... It's disappointing.
Reading the bolded part I was wondering your source but you answered that at the end. On the bright side if 4 were tested and we only had two positives than I feel better about rumours that there were 6 to 8 players at the St Kilda Fest (noting that presence there doesn't mean they took anything). Just saying worst case (other than more positives) would be more players doing the wrong thing but at least your post gives me some faith they weren't.
 

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Hagla

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Portugal is an interesting case study, where they decriminalised all illegal drugs in 2000.
Drug policy of Portugal

Observations since 2000:
  • Increased uptake of treatment.
  • Reduction in new HIV diagnoses amongst drug users
  • Reduction in drug related deaths
  • Drug use among adolescents (13-15 yrs) and "problematic" users declined
  • Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased
  • Decreased street value of most illicit drugs
Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased, however if you're no longer a criminal for admitting you take drugs then it makes sense.



However us Australian's tend to be morons so you're right we'd probably find a way to screw it up.
Yeah, but the places with the lest drug-related crime in the world, and with hardly any deaths, are places where they legalised and regulated it. That's because they knew that people would take it anyway, so if that's the case, how do you take the crime, violence and self-harm from it?

See for example this: http://www.thefix.com/content/decrim-nation-portugal-ten-years-later

If it was decriminalised here, we'd have a lot fewer problems.
So is the Portuguese government producing these drugs? If not they are contributing to thousands of deaths worldwide, but out of sight out of mind I guess.
 

Markfs

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However us Australian's tend to be morons so you're right we'd probably find a way to screw it up.
which is why we're the highest users of recreational drugs.... I sense an endless loop here. Too stupid to do anything about it... too stupid to do the smart thing if drugs were legalised.
 

Hagla

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So if drug use in Portugal has declined does that not contribute to less overseas death also
Problematic drug use has declined, as has use by 13-15 year olds. I didn't see anywhere that it says drug use overall has declined though. You need to remember that this article is written with a specific agenda in mind and the stats are picked accordingly. A classic example of that is the fact that they have singled out a decline in drug use by 13-15 year olds...
 

popin

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April 10th today, 11th, 12th, 13th, and 14th the day we have been waiting for the B-sample
 

Ketchup

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I think we should make drink driving legal. Think of all the extra money the government would make because people would be spending more on alcohol knowing they don't have to worry about how they're getting home, creating a higher tax thus giving them more money as well as helping out small and large business owners. The extra money the federal and local governments get can be used on schools, roads, hospital beds and such.

Am I doing it right?
 

Kilmo

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I think we should make drink driving legal. Think of all the extra money the government would make because people would be spending more on alcohol knowing they don't have to worry about how they're getting home, creating a higher tax thus giving them more money as well as helping out small and large business owners. The extra money the federal and local governments get can be used on schools, roads, hospital beds and such.

Am I doing it right?
No because "drink driving" is not a commodity that is purchased.
No because "drink driving" is not something that the law is preventing people from seeking help about.
No because "drink driving" is something that is far more easily policed and prevented than the purchasing of illicit drugs.
No because "drink driving" has an implicit risk of harm of others rather than just the person committing the act.

And no because saying that one crime should be decriminalised is not an advocacy for anarchy - extrapolation such as this is the oldest logical fallacy in the book.

I appreciate you are probably taking the Mick Malthouse but I thought I would respond anyway.

To those worried about thread derailment, what else are we supposed to do? Endlessly speculate on a matter for which we have been explicitly told we will have no further information on until the 14th?
 

dansa

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I don't mind the thread being derailed as it is now a more interesting discussion.

Thomas & Keeffe will never play for the club again. The B sample is just a formality. So not much to discuss.

On the issue of drugs in society. I tend to lean towards the legalization argument. I can't understand the position of people who are so opposed to drugs such as Cocaine and Cannabis yet still supportive of the legalisation of Alcohol. It's pretty clear alcohol has a much more damaging effect on society as well as individuals health.
 
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There are two major issues which are clear cut to me.

ASADA came to the club between the NZ trip and Round 1 and tested 4 players. Of those 4 players, two were Keeffe and Thomas. In other words, ASADA were tipped off that they had been doing some naughty things over the weekend.
I don't get it? ASADA were tipped off that the players took clenbuterol?
 

Kappa

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ASADA came to the club between the NZ trip and Round 1 and tested 4 players. Of those 4 players, two were Keeffe and Thomas. In other words, ASADA were tipped off that they had been doing some naughty things over the weekend.
Not true, it's very common for drug testers to test players while on overseas training camps, we've had it happen to us many times in the past including when we were doing the Arizona training camp.
 
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