Injury Thommo in doubt for Rd 1

[Smithalicious]

When the Crows make finals, I want Thommo in the midfield. Needs to be carefully managed over the year so he's good to go come the pointy end of the season.

I agree but only a fully fit thommo. A slightly injured or underdone Thommo can't chase defensively and in finals that would kill us.

Currently Thommo is still the best but needs to be managed and if he can chase for a full game, he is in. There is no doubt he can get the ball but it's the other things i worry about.

 

[Doctor B]

M Crouch & Lyons just need to be exposed to the game more. Hell, who knows, if we actually play our less experienced and talented youthful mids, instead of dropping them in and out of the side and putting them in vests, they would become experienced. After this Hamstring, if Thommo breaks down again, put the fork in him.

Great avatar! Best show.

 

[Cap]

Probably cements Mitch Grigg as a starter, so not necessarily a bad thing.

Grigg or Lyons?

 

[1990crow]

Grigg or Lyons?

Both

 

[rocket18]

When the Crows make finals, I want Thommo in the midfield. Needs to be carefully managed over the year so he's good to go come the pointy end of the season.

Is that cos Thommo has got us over the line in finals before?

I know I will be flamed for this but his finals performances and the crows finals performances as a whole in the last 8 years have been less than stellar.

I'm on record saying he should have retired last season, we have players coming through that can play his role. Thommo can't go forward and kick goals like other aging midfielders winding down.

 

[Tex200]

Is that cos Thommo has got us over the line in finals before?

I know I will be flamed for this but his finals performances and the crows finals performances as a whole in the last 8 years have been less than stellar.

I'm on record saying he should have retired last season, we have players coming through that can play his role. Thommo can't go forward and kick goals like other aging midfielders winding down.

My enduring memory of that Hawks elim was not so much Massie, but Thommo's horrendous skill error with about a minute to go that handed Franklin the winning goal.

He's escaped scrutiny for that thanks to Craig/Massie, but it was a dead set howler

 

[Mismatched]

Certainly not a great sign for Thommo having recurrent hamstring strains this early in the year.

At his age, there's no such thing as "just a hamstring strain".

Needs to be managed very carefully by the club.

 

[footy4ever]

Is that cos Thommo has got us over the line in finals before?

I know I will be flamed for this but his finals performances and the crows finals performances as a whole in the last 8 years have been less than stellar.

I'm on record saying he should have retired last season, we have players coming through that can play his role. Thommo can't go forward and kick goals like other aging midfielders winding down.

Sure, everyone has different perceptions of players' values and no matter how anyone perceives a player, solid statistics usually tell the real story. According to the play-the-kids-brigade Thommo shouldn't have played at all last year yet he had some blinders, my favourite being the Second showdown. This bullshit about him being slow, not being able to kick accurately, wasting the ball, has been allowed to fester on this board for far too long. I'm not going to hunt down his finals performances and everyone remembers his wayward kick to buddy F***nuts, but have his finals performances been really that bad?…and any future finals performances this year, he'll receive less attention than he has in all preceding finals. Sure, he's coming to the end, but it's not here yet, and if his body can be managed, a fit Thompson is easily top half of our first 22. His 2014 stats are arguably better than any of his counterpart teammates at the Crows.

2014 -
Ave disposals - 27.3 - 13th in the entire afl. Disposal efficiency 67.2%(1.8%less than the best player in the competition - G Ablett)
ave clearances - 12th in afl
ave centre clearances - equal 9th with Sam Mitchell, ryan Griffin. 0.1 clearance below Joel Selwood

How many players in the afl would give their left one to have those stats beside their names?

 

[1970crow]

Sure, everyone has different perceptions of players' values and no matter how anyone perceives a player, solid statistics usually tell the real story. According to the play-the-kids-brigade Thommo shouldn't have played at all last year yet he had some blinders, my favourite being the Second showdown. This bullshit about him being slow, not being able to kick accurately, wasting the ball, has been allowed to fester on this board for far too long. I'm not going to hunt down his finals performances and everyone remembers his wayward kick to buddy F***nuts, but have his finals performances been really that bad?…and any future finals performances this year, he'll receive less attention than he has in all preceding finals. Sure, he's coming to the end, but it's not here yet, and if his body can be managed, a fit Thompson is easily top half of our first 22. His 2014 stats are arguably better than any of his counterpart teammates at the Crows.

2014 -
Ave disposals - 27.3 - 13th in the entire afl. Disposal efficiency 67.2%(1.8%less than the best player in the competition - G Ablett)
ave clearances - 12th in afl
ave centre clearances - equal 9th with Sam Mitchell, ryan Griffin. 0.1 clearance below Joel Selwood

How many players in the afl would give their left one to have those stats beside their names?

I don't disagree per se. But I will put forward a reason behind his high possession tally. Thommo's entire TOG is spent as a rover. He's great getting the pill around the clearance, but there's nearly no defensive aspect to his game left at all. Obviously the entire mid rotation needs to improve in that area, but I feel it's beyond Thommo at this stage in his career and persistent injury complaints. I see it similar to our fwd line stats, we were one of the highest scoring teams and yet we finished about 10th. Our high scoring fwd line doesn't operate in a vacuum and were responsible for little defensive pressure allowing opposition to exit under little pressure and set up quality attacks from there.

Now a fully fit and fresh Thommo is still best 22, no doubt whatsoever. But starting the year with a hamstring is not ideal and as some have said, he might find it hard to push past more youthful blokes if they're performing as required.

 

[footy4ever]

I don't disagree per se. But I will put forward a reason behind his high possession tally. Thommo's entire TOG is spent as a rover. He's great getting the pill around the clearance, but there's nearly no defensive aspect to his game left at all. Obviously the entire mid rotation needs to improve in that area, but I feel it's beyond Thommo at this stage in his career and persistent injury complaints. I see it similar to our fwd line stats, we were one of the highest scoring teams and yet we finished about 10th. Our high scoring fwd line doesn't operate in a vacuum and were responsible for little defensive pressure allowing opposition to exit under little pressure and set up quality attacks from there.

Now a fully fit and fresh Thommo is still best 22, no doubt whatsoever. But starting the year with a hamstring is not ideal and as some have said, he might find it hard to push past more youthful blokes if they're performing as required.

I see it differently.

As well as having the highest disposal rate in the Crows in 2014, he also had the highest effective disposal rate. As for being defensive, he was 5th in the average number of tackles.

I'm not sure there's a stat that shows the number of times anyone runs to fill up a space, or stands there flapping his arms to apply defensive pressure, (one percenters maybe? - usually monopolised by the defenders who get a fingernail to the ball chasing a forward on a lead) but I don't know what this man has to do to get any recognition from those that have judged him so incorrectly in the past, and have turned the fallacies into a perceived reality by repeating it over and over.

I know stats aren't everything, but they are better than clouded opinion.

 

[rocket18]

A fit Thommo is an asset to the team, however I would prefer to see the younger guys given more game time in the guts. This is where Sando first lost me continuing to play an unfit Thommo - although Thommo needs to take some responsibility. The club would have been in a better position getting another 10-15 games into the younger guys.

Our club has failed in the finals as far as the eye can see, not sure why we would want to continue pushing Thommo, VB, Reilly to play finals - they have failed as a group. Time for the next generation to make their own mark.

 

[1970crow]

I see it differently.

As well as having the highest disposal rate in the Crows in 2014, he also had the highest effective disposal rate. As for being defensive, he was 5th in the average number of tackles.

I'm not sure there's a stat that shows the number of times anyone runs to fill up a space, or stands there flapping his arms to apply defensive pressure, (one percenters maybe? - usually monopolised by the defenders who get a fingernail to the ball chasing a forward on a lead) but I don't know what this man has to do to get any recognition from those that have judged him so incorrectly in the past, and have turned the fallacies into a perceived reality by repeating it over and over.

I know stats aren't everything, but they are better than clouded opinion.

Again, most tackles occur around the stoppage, which is where Thommo spends most of his time. It's perfectly logical that he'd rate high in that stat as well. I certainly take you're point that Thommo I still performing to his strengths quite well. But it's also ne secret that the game has moved a little and both attacking and defensive spread has become critical. This is an area where we struggle and it costs us in offensive quality and defensive quantity. Our raw numbers are fine, but we have lacked quality in this area.

You don't seem to rate team defence, working hard back into space for no stat. I think that's a mistake and a Sandoism. There's plenty more to a good footy team than comparing yourself against the rest statistically.

 

[footy4ever]

A fit Thommo is an asset to the team, however I would prefer to see the younger guys given more game time in the guts. This is where Sando first lost me continuing to play an unfit Thommo - although Thommo needs to take some responsibility. The club would have been in a better position getting another 10-15 games into the younger guys.

Our club has failed in the finals as far as the eye can see, not sure why we would want to continue pushing Thommo, VB, Reilly to play finals - they have failed as a group. Time for the next generation to make their own mark.

Thommo had the most disposals in our last 'biggest final' the preliminary against hawks. His entire finals campaign was outstanding, amassing the highest disposals in each of the games in that finals series. You play finals to win, not to give novices experience in case you make the finals again next year. If he's fit it would be ridiculous to play anyone in his place.

 

[footy4ever]

Again, most tackles occur around the stoppage, which is where Thommo spends most of his time. It's perfectly logical that he'd rate high in that stat as well. I certainly take you're point that Thommo I still performing to his strengths quite well. But it's also ne secret that the game has moved a little and both attacking and defensive spread has become critical. This is an area where we struggle and it costs us in offensive quality and defensive quantity. Our raw numbers are fine, but we have lacked quality in this area.

You don't seem to rate team defence, working hard back into space for no stat. I think that's a mistake and a Sandoism. There's plenty more to a good footy team than comparing yourself against the rest statistically.

Team defence? Of course I rate it. All I said was that there was no real stat for that. It's merely opinion to state that Thommo doesn't do that. Not only have I witnessed him doing exactly that, but I've also witnessed him directing others to do the same. It has become a practice on this board to meekly accept the rubbish posted about Thompson. When Thompson doesn't meet Walsh's expectations, then it is probably time for him to give it away. Right now, he is easily a first choice selection.

 

[1970crow]

Team defence? Of course I rate it. All I said was that there was no real stat for that. It's merely opinion to state that Thommo doesn't do that. Not only have I witnessed him doing exactly that, but I've also witnessed him directing others to do the same. It has become a practice on this board to meekly accept the rubbish posted about Thompson. When Thompson doesn't meet Walsh's expectations, then it is probably time for him to give it away. Right now, he is easily a first choice selection.

Right now he's exactly not. Due to his hammy of course. But, I do agree, however my feeling is that he needs to be near 100%. I think that's the main concern. We've seen him hobble to the line the last couple, however it is a bit disturbing that he's carrying at the start of the year.

 

[Rotayjay]

This has to be the end of Thommo playing almost every game -- he must, must be managed. I'd rather get a moderate number of games out of him over this year when he's fully fit but no less than fully fit. What we need most of all is balance. Give the kids experience and play Thommo strategically when he's needed. I agree that he is a fantastic asset, but I also agree his defensive work does leave something to be desired -- and we all know defence is the big problem.

 

[Houston]

This has to be the end of Thommo playing almost every game -- he must, must be managed. I'd rather get a moderate number of games out of him over this year when he's fully fit but no less than fully fit. What we need most of all is balance. Give the kids experience and play Thommo strategically when he's needed. I agree that he is a fantastic asset, but I also agree his defensive work does leave something to be desired -- and we all know defence is the big problem.

Sadly his most likely current replacement in Lyons is almost just as bad defensively. At least he's at an age where it can be worked on though.

 

[footy4ever]

Sadly his most likely current replacement in Lyons is almost just as bad defensively sadly. At least he's at an age where it can be worked on though.

This is what I'm objecting to. This is purely opinion and has no substance whatsoever. You aren't 5th in the team for tackles over an entire season if you are bad defensively. When Thommo doesn't satisfy Walsh defense-wise, fine, don't select him. When he's injured, don't select him…of course. Until then, he is an essential part of the team.

 

[TheMetricSystem]

just as bad defensively

What is this defense that everyone speaks of? Please show me some footage of top line midfielders such as Mitchell, Dangerfield, Pendlebury, Priddis, Murphy, Judd, Boak, Fyfe, Kennedy, Rich, Beams, Ablett et al defending. Not a one-off smother or chase down but this constant defensive pressure that seems to be expected of all of our midfielders when not in possession of the ball.

First and foremost I want a midfielder to win the ball. Of course chase when required, fill gaps in the zone and be accountable - but they need to win the ball.

 

[TheMetricSystem]

This is what I'm objecting to. This is purely opinion and has no substance whatsoever. You aren't 5th in the team for tackles over an entire season if you are bad defensively. When Thommo doesn't satisfy Walsh defense-wise, fine, don't select him. When he's injured, don't select him…of course. Until then, he is an essential part of the team.

He is a gun ball winner and that's his job. I personally think he needs to be managed over this year with the view to it being his last. No disrespect to him I just think we now have some young guys that can step in to that role and (hopefully) be the quality player that Thompson has been.

 

[1970crow]

What is this defense that everyone speaks of? Please show me some footage of top line midfielders such as Mitchell, Dangerfield, Pendlebury, Priddis, Murphy, Judd, Boak, Fyfe, Kennedy, Rich, Beams, Ablett et al defending. Not a one-off smother or chase down but this constant defensive pressure that seems to be expected of all of our midfielders when not in possession of the ball.

First and foremost I want a midfielder to win the ball. Of course chase when required, fill gaps in the zone and be accountable - but they need to win the ball.

I analogise it like this. In my early 20's, I did a pre-season thinking I was going to play soccer for old coll's. Had some mates playing and had been burned out playing footy for school/club. As a good wingman, I had worked back hard to defend and assisted clearing the ball out. While I was catching my Brest watching the mids/fwd do their work I was told in no uncertain terms to push up. Soccer is about running up and back the ground and I think that footy is that way as well. Not jogging back at leisure, which we do, but working back hard. Of course they need to get the pill, but getting back quickly and then running forward is critical.

 

[1970crow]

He is a gun ball winner and that's his job. I personally think he needs to be managed over this year with the view to it being his last. No disrespect to him I just think we now have some young guys that can step in to that role and (hopefully) be the quality player that Thompson has been.

To be frank, both Danger and Sloane have a way to go in that regard. As much as I'm a bit of a fan, I do not expect Lyons to get near Thommo as a footballer. However, there's a point in everyone's career when a lesser footballer provides more to the team than they do. If that wasn't the case, Macca would still be playing off a HBF. I'm starting to get drunk (last houseboat night), so not sure if I was dis-agreeing or supplementing.

 

[AFC979810]

Is that cos Thommo has got us over the line in finals before?

I know I will be flamed for this but his finals performances and the crows finals performances as a whole in the last 8 years have been less than stellar.

Did you say 8 years so you could leave out his B.O.G performance in a final against Fremantle in 2006?

Or so that you can include his kick out of bounds in the 2007 elimination final (despite the fact that he had 34 touches and was one of our best 3 players).

Was poor in the 2008 elimination final, but was solid in the 2009 thrashing of Essendon and was in our top 7 players in that loss to Collingwood.

Fast forward to 2012 and he was our best player in the 2012 elimination final vs Sydney (the only adelaide player who could actually win a contested possession). Was once again in the top 6-7 players in our win over Freo and was average to good against Hawthorn.

So has played 7 finals in the last 8 years. Was in our top players in 4 out of the 7 finals whilst being a good contributor in the Hawks/Essendon games. Only game he didn't play well was that elimination final in 2008.

 

[Tex Support]

Lyons? Jarrod Lyons?

Right this way please, your career is in here...

*puts magazine down, walks through door marked "opportunity"