Thornton

[blues4flag]

are u trying to tell me that brett thornton is in the top 10-15 defenders in the AFL??

Who the hell said that? He's better than a heap of the players you listed. The fact that you rate Thornton in front of Merrett (who is Brisbane's best defender) and behind Brennan and Drummond shows you have NFI.

 

[jd2006]

Who the hell said that? He's better than a heap of the players you listed. The fact that you rate Thornton in front of Merrett (who is Brisbane's best defender) and behind Brennan and Drummond shows you have NFI.

come on daniel merret better than jarred brennan. he might get the job done but so can brennan who is 1000 times more damaging as well

 

[RAPPA]

There is no need to criticise Thornton. The guy is a decent defender and what needs to be remembered is that the great defenders currently playing like Glass, Barry and Fletcher have got a good support staff. Carlton has the worst defence so Thronton is pretty much left as a sole-hand in defence. Waite is no defender - as much as i like him he is arrogant, has no awareness and needs to learn that spoiling is sometimes the better option than going for the heroic mark; Setanta is still finding his feet in AFL and well, 1AW has a bung shoulder and Jamieson is still learning.
Lay off the guy.

 

[THEBLOODS85]

In bold i agree with. The rest Thornton is on par with or better than. You have to remember that if you put any of those blokes in our backline it would bring them down as well. ie Basset wouldn't look as good in our backline as he does in Adelaides.

Very well put.........so many times Thornton is put under enormous pressure because the lack of ability, effort and skill up the field is so deplorable even the league's best defenders would have plenty of trouble!

The lad has played well in the hardest position on the field, but easiest to get criticised in, in what has been the worst era of the Carlton Football Club.

Ok he may have defiencies in his game, (90% of players today have something that hinders their game) but in the six years that he has played plenty have come and gone, while he has soldiered on.

Keep plugging away Bret!

 

[len_jet]

in a perfect world in 2008 the defence structure should be -
thornton vs 1 forward
waite vs 2 forward
jamison/o'hailpin vs 3 forward
austin/jamison vs 4 forward

after gaining much needed experience over a season or 2 then it could change to a formidible backline
jamison vs 1 forward
austin vs 2 forward
thornton vs 3 forward (racking up the possessions)
o'hailpin vs 4 forward/resting ruckmen
waite up forward

We want to develop Jamison/Austin into our future full back line. Therefore the thought process is play him on the big players... let him learn how they play body on body, their movements etc... your not going to teach him practically unless he plays on them. Additionally giving Thornton the 3rd or 4th defender allows for him to run off that player and assist Jamison/Austin.

come on daniel merret better than jarred brennan. he might get the job done but so can brennan who is 1000 times more damaging as well

Daniel Merret is Brisbanes most consistant and regular backman. Brennan only plays across the backline as a lose player otherwise he spends a lot of time up forward. Infact I would even rate brennan as a back man... I would have Merret, Drummond and Roe ahead of Brennan as a backman

 

[jd2006]

i agree with chelsworthgale that jamison and austin are considered our future.
but i ask u this, is playing a young defender on a forward who is much stronger and will win a one on one contest 9 times out of 10 benneficial for their development?
you mentioned they need to experience how afl players move and go body on body, cant they learn this for instance playing on a tim boyle rather than a buddy franklin. it will not shatter their confidence and will help the team win the game

 

[len_jet]

i agree with chelsworthgale that jamison and austin are considered our future.
but i ask u this, is playing a young defender on a forward who is much stronger and will win a one on one contest 9 times out of 10 benneficial for their development?
you mentioned they need to experience how afl players move and go body on body, cant they learn this for instance playing on a tim boyle rather than a buddy franklin. it will not shatter their confidence and will help the team win the game

personally I think that "shattering confidence" defense is a crock of shit. Players are put through physological test etc at the draft camp and obviously mental toughness is calculated into draft choices as this will demonstrate the capabilities to push themselves in red time in the 4th quarter etc.

The other scenario i have that rebuts that argument is what happens if yeah fine you give him the 3rd or 4th forward for a year he builds all this so called confidence and then gets 10 kicked on him as soon as you give him the number 1 forward. The other flip side is what happens if he soundly beats that number 1 forward when thrown into the deep end, supposidly his confidence should sky rocket.

I am in the construction industry (this analogy is not limited to this industry) and I can tell you that practical learning is much much more valuable and looked more highly upon than theoretical learning... I say Carlton are doing the right thing with the Jamison and he can only benefit from this, he will learn practically by playing on these players... yes he will get beaten but it will test his mental toughness... he will sit down and disect his game with our backline coaches and learn from his mistakes...

 

[Thrawn]

personally I think that "shattering confidence" defense is a crock of shit. Players are put through physological test etc at the draft camp and obviously mental toughness is calculated into draft choices as this will demonstrate the capabilities to push themselves in red time in the 4th quarter etc.

These tests aren't always precise. It's one thing doing a psychological test, another thing entirely playing in front of a crowd tens of thousands of people and the whole nation watching you, with every media outlet looking at every little thing you do. Under match pressure, against blokes bigger and more experienced than you. Players who are not used to such conditions can lose confidence easily... on the flip side, if they do something good, confidence can grow in them.

Have we forgotten Luke Livingston by any chance? Look what happened to him.

Give Jamison some big jobs for him to get experience, sure... but also give him easier tasks where he can ease into his role better. It will certainly give him more confidence. Don't just go one way and give him the biggest tasks every single week because he is not ready for that yet. Small steps... throw the odd challenge from time to time, but sometimes give him a little bit of a break by playing on an "easier" opponent.

 

[jd2006]

all the tests in the world cant test for someone reaction to this scenario.

carlton lose to hawthorn by 4 points franklin kicks 8 on jamison. how bad is he going to feel to his team mates who played above themselves and almost got the team over the line

 

[WeninRome]

Brett has been great for us down back in the last few years and really stood up when the likes of livingston and co were not able too.

This is where he needs to stay. I don't want to see him running around the ground un manned as he did on thursday night and picking up easy possesions. It is great to pick up lots of possesions but he has the ability to do jack all with them. He continually turned over the ball. He is not a midfielder but a backman, leave him there please.

 

[WeninRome]

I would much rather him as a backman that floats around the danger zone in the 50 and have houlihan and scotland doing the job he did last week

 

[len_jet]

all the tests in the world cant test for someone reaction to this scenario.

carlton lose to hawthorn by 4 points franklin kicks 8 on jamison. how bad is he going to feel to his team mates who played above themselves and almost got the team over the line

I agree with Thrawn in regards to getting an easier job and for a while there on Thursday night he wasnt on Richo, Thornton was... Suggesting that against sides like Melbourne you would probably give Jammo Robbo or something.. even against Hawthorn you could give him one of their 4 forwards in buddy, roughhead, boyle or Williams...

As for that analogy what about the bloke who let Hodge kick two? or the guy who played on Roughhead who kicks 3... or the poor sod who keeps Williams to 3 kicks and 1 goal... they are going to collectively feel like shit..

 

[Bomba Sheldon]

Last Thursday Thornton was our best defender who kept Brown in check for most of the night. His best spot is to play on the Browns, Williams, Burgoynes etc. Whilst he has done well against the big power forwards before his size isn't conducive to these match-ups hence the need to try and develop the Jamiesons, O'Halpins and possibly Austin etc to fill these positions.

My biggest disappointment with Thornton as a player is that his kicking at times is lazy, he prefers to short chip his kicks too often even if there is a better option further up the ground and his desire to bounce the footy when its not necessarily the best option. Whilst I like a player to take a bounce and take on the opposition and put fear into them, he at times does that slow canter that allows the opposition to flood back.

I am glad we kept him but I think sometimes he tries to do too much when its not warranted.

 

[Korn]

Exactly man! I really don't like his casual attitude. He reckons he can do enough by just running at 60% pace. I would like to see more aggression from him.

 

[Warsaw]

In regards to trading thornton i would consider that as a grave mistake. Unless if it were for a much better defender i would say keep thornton as he can play not so much a shutdown role but certainley a good defending role where he can stop goals. He has definitley been the best defender we've had and continues to be but unless there's a trade involving a much better defender i would say we need him Yet i do agree in comments of his efforts, he seems to have untapped potential that he himself refuses to open in that regard i am pissed off but hopefully playing with judd could give him some confidence in reaching that potential.

 

[WalkerTexasRanger]

There is no need to criticise Thornton. The guy is a decent defender and what needs to be remembered is that the great defenders currently playing like Glass, Barry and Fletcher have got a good support staff. Carlton has the worst defence so Thronton is pretty much left as a sole-hand in defence. Waite is no defender - as much as i like him he is arrogant, has no awareness and needs to learn that spoiling is sometimes the better option than going for the heroic mark; Setanta is still finding his feet in AFL and well, 1AW has a bung shoulder and Jamieson is still learning.
Lay off the guy.

not to mention our mids don't have much of a defensive game...it is a lot easier to defend in the backline if the ball doesn't arrive as often .

IMO our defence doesn't just suffer in the back six...it is across the park. some players chase ball carriers (Fev for one and even lazy Russell does sometimes), but there is no point one guy chasing and putting pressure on a ball carrier if the other lazy sh!ts don't put similar pressure on the ball carrier's teammates. Most common contemporary call from Carlton fans in the stands "man up"! Sure zone defence is the modern way, not sure it works outside the kick in scenario though, but it seems some players think zone defence works across the park. Carrots always looks like he would rather cover a ball carrier like in touch footy instead of hitting the hips...and don't get me started on how our tackles don't stick!!!

 

[TerryWallet]

Last Thursday Thornton was our best defender who kept Brown in check for most of the night. His best spot is to play on the Browns, Williams, Burgoynes etc. Whilst he has done well against the big power forwards before his size isn't conducive to these match-ups hence the need to try and develop the Jamiesons, O'Halpins and possibly Austin etc to fill these positions.

My biggest disappointment with Thornton as a player is that his kicking at times is lazy, he prefers to short chip his kicks too often even if there is a better option further up the ground and his desire to bounce the footy when its not necessarily the best option. Whilst I like a player to take a bounce and take on the opposition and put fear into them, he at times does that slow canter that allows the opposition to flood back.

I am glad we kept him but I think sometimes he tries to do too much when its not warranted.

Thornton has intrigued me for years. I've never seen a guy who so desperately wants to be a good player but he just aint.
He's really just a stumble butt who has contributed greatly to our disgraceful backline.

I think he's watched too many Andrew McLeod tapes. You watch him. He tries to play like McLeod but just keeps stuffing up.

Two 2nd Rd draft picks...and we knocked em back........shudder.

 

[jd2006]

just thought id come on here and say i was extremely pleased and suprised by thornton's performance on saturday nite. i did give him a bit of a bagging the week before but he performed in a way i wanted him to. having jamison out meant he took on kozi and gave him a touch up. if he can take on a teams 2nd tall forward every week and get 20+ posssesions i'll be more than happy. plus he had a bit of grunt about him too which is something our team definatly lacks

 

[judd5]

I have been very impressed with Thornton this year, and i really think that he has improved this year and is playing much better footy.

 

[richcogs]

Will Thornton keep this form up the entire season? Is he worth the DT risk? Mattner for Thornton?

 

[ptrsks]

He has had the most amout of kicks in the league so far and stopped kosi to goaless against the saints

 

[one eyed bluey]

ummmm thornton is our best defender, yeah........ some people on here really need to actually watch/go to the actual game....i have a lot of richmond and collingwood mates and they all say they wouldn't mind having him in their team and his started off in great form.
Can't believe people want to trade him, so many ____wits on this board its ridiculuos.

 

[one eyed bluey]

not to mention our mids don't have much of a defensive game...it is a lot easier to defend in the backline if the ball doesn't arrive as often .

IMO our defence doesn't just suffer in the back six...it is across the park. some players chase ball carriers (Fev for one and even lazy Russell does sometimes), but there is no point one guy chasing and putting pressure on a ball carrier if the other lazy sh!ts don't put similar pressure on the ball carrier's teammates. Most common contemporary call from Carlton fans in the stands "man up"! Sure zone defence is the modern way, not sure it works outside the kick in scenario though, but it seems some players think zone defence works across the park. Carrots always looks like he would rather cover a ball carrier like in touch footy instead of hitting the hips...and don't get me started on how our tackles don't stick!!!

totally agree mate! It's our overall defensive pressure that is lacking and thats all over the ground and it starts in the midfield.
For a number of years i've always thought we've been doing a lot of "dumb" running. For starters when we do chase we all seem to go to the ball carrier and then they just handball over our heads and run away. Maybe this is because we have a young side or maybe its our zoning gameplan which i hate, but it annoys the shit of me!
To make it worse now we have midfielders that can't even chase due to injury, laziness or whatever u want to put it down to i.e.judd,stevens,murphy. Ratts needs to give them a good old fashion spray and let them know that this week we better harden the ____ up!
Expect backlash from supporters if we don't win or at the very least have a decent crack this week!

 

[Pred_ator]

spot on mate, he is a very ordinary defender. I don't think he has beaten any of his opponent for the last 2 years. He is very soft and gets push off way too easily.

We really need a defensive skill coach, all of our defenders cannot push & shove their opponent. It's not all about strength, it's about concentration and the proper way to push the player.

Kosi?

 

[len_jet]

Kosi?

Korn and Wdgann where art thou? morons...

jd2006 good to see you have come to your senses!