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Thornton

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40yearBLUE said:
Didnt vote, dont care either way. If he is selected to play good on him, he is good enough that week, he deserves ALL of our support. If he doesnt he is either injured or not good enough that week, and still has the following week(s) to break in.

Thats pretty much all there is too it really. We dont need polls, he does not have to be popular with BluePride and his clueless crew, the club does not need permission from us to play him but I sometimes wish supporters needed permission from the club to be one, a few of you wouldnt make the cut.

Nice thread :thumbsu:
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A lot of what you say is true. Shame it's so difficult for you being the only long-term Carlton supporter on this site.
 
Age brings wisdom borne of experience, Thy. I am sure you agree. But its the only thing it brings. It does not bring more passion or legitimacy. It does not bring qualification or knowledge. It does not bring respect or authority, that must be earnt by example. It usually does not bring good humor, you are the exception. :thumbsu:
 
Personally I was turned off Thornton, last year when he sprayed my favourite player. Nevertheless I am a firm believer in giving him a chance to prove that he is better than that. I'd prefer him not playing down back anymore as he seems incapable of speedy ball movement which is where our gameplan is directing us.

He has shown something up forward, but as odd as it sounds I worry that his defensive pressure may not be up to scratch when the ball hits the deck. His marking is really strong so there is merit, but I want to see some serious defensive application out of all of our forwards, and Thornton has to bring this.
 
He'll get games this year.
I can't see why he wont be able to reinvent himself somewhere.

Waite, Henderson, Walker and a resting ruckman is more than enough height up forward though and they're all better options than Thornton.

It will be an interesting year for him. I for one hope he can come back. He's is probably the unluckiest Carlton player in the history of the club and the frustration has probably got the better of him over the years. I'd love to see his years of being in the worst side we've ever had at least finish on a high note.
 

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NAUGHT5 said:
He'll get games this year.
I can't see why he wont be able to reinvent himself somewhere.

Waite, Henderson, Walker and a resting ruckman is more than enough height up forward though and they're all better options than Thornton.

It will be an interesting year for him. I for one hope he can come back. He's is probably the unluckiest Carlton player in the history of the club and the frustration has probably got the better of him over the years. I'd love to see his years of being in the worst side we've ever had at least finish on a high note.
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Think some of us forget that he has punched above his weight year after year, loss after loss, being monstered by the big KPF gorillas. Who could blame him for looking for a way out a little while back? Sure they say there is no room for sentiment in footy but if anyone has a case he does. Ratshit on-field demeanour has never helped his cause but, he can be hard to love at times our Bret.
 
His deficiencies v positive balance has been slanting the wrong way for a while and we no longer have to or can afford to carry great servants.
He cannot recover fast enough, does not have the pace to get back into the play, he is clumsy in a tight situation, makes poor decisions, gives away too many easy poss to his foe, too many easy free kicks and then bitches and moans with a tirade of antics to the umps, his brother's in arms, the crowd, the seagulls and his beloved TV audience.
He is depth fine fwd or back but I hope we do not get to a point when he is required.
Similar to Waite if they play without the melodramatic emotional BS they play good footy. Show me good footy
 
blue gunslinger said:
His deficiencies v positive balance has been slanting the wrong way for a while and we no longer have to or can afford to carry great servants.
He cannot recover fast enough, does not have the pace to get back into the play, he is clumsy in a tight situation, makes poor decisions, gives away too many easy poss to his foe, too many easy free kicks and then bitches and moans with a tirade of antics to the umps, his brother's in arms, the crowd, the seagulls and his beloved TV audience.
He is depth fine fwd or back but I hope we do not get to a point when he is required.
Similar to Waite if they play without the melodramatic emotional BS they play good footy. Show me good footy
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I very much agree with the above and with the post by Stamos.

For all those waiting in anticipation for a little bit more "Thornton" magic I would like to remind you of his last performance on a football field in a Carlton jumper. It was the last quarter against the Bullies. The ball was kicked long to Higgins with Armfield hot on his heels. Army with speed and skill got his fist to the ball (so that, with his superior footspeed it would have been easy for him to pick the ball up and run off) and moments later had his nose broken by a flailing Thornton running back with the flight of the ball. Needless to say both Carlton players were now out of the contest and Higgins ran off unscathed to kick the easiest of goals.

Please guys, I cherish my last memory of T bird in a Carlton jumper. Don't spoil it for me.
 
blue gunslinger said:
His deficiencies v positive balance has been slanting the wrong way for a while and we no longer have to or can afford to carry great servants.
He cannot recover fast enough, does not have the pace to get back into the play, he is clumsy in a tight situation, makes poor decisions, gives away too many easy poss to his foe, too many easy free kicks and then bitches and moans with a tirade of antics to the umps, his brother's in arms, the crowd, the seagulls and his beloved TV audience.
He is depth fine fwd or back but I hope we do not get to a point when he is required.
Similar to Waite if they play without the melodramatic emotional BS they play good footy. Show me good footy
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:thumbsu:+1

Leave the dramatics to the acting community and maybe he has a chance of making it back. If the removal of Fev (who was a game winner) was not enough of a wake up call about attitude, then I fear Thornton is finished. If there is not a massive about face from him on this score, I say thanks for the memories and goodbye.
 
Windhover said:
I very much agree with the above and with the post by Stamos.

For all those waiting in anticipation for a little bit more "Thornton" magic I would like to remind you of his last performance on a football field in a Carlton jumper. It was the last quarter against the Bullies. The ball was kicked long to Higgins with Armfield hot on his heels. Army with speed and skill got his fist to the ball (so that, with his superior footspeed it would have been easy for him to pick the ball up and run off) and moments later had his nose broken by a flailing Thornton running back with the flight of the ball. Needless to say both Carlton players were now out of the contest and Higgins ran off unscathed to kick the easiest of goals.

Please guys, I cherish my last memory of T bird in a Carlton jumper. Don't spoil it for me.
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Windhover I understand you have your reasons for not liking Thornton but it's been pointed out to you more than once that Armfield went into that game with a broken nose, Thornton did nothing wrong in that instance, he was flying for the ball as the tallest Carlton player in the contest.
 
Sin City said:
Windhover I understand you have your reasons for not liking Thornton but it's been pointed out to you more than once that Armfield went into that game with a broken nose, Thornton did nothing wrong in that instance, he was flying for the ball as the tallest Carlton player in the contest.
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You may well be right that Armfield went into the game with a broken nose. All I can say is that it was the last quarter, Armfield had no protective bandaging to the nose pre-incident and then coped an allmightly whack to the nose curtesy of Thornton which caused him to go straight off the ground bleeding.

As for Thornton doing nothing wrong I regret to say I disagree with you almost entirely. He did almost everything wrong. First of all he had to decide whether to help out in the aerial contest or trust his team-mate. As it happens he could have trusted his team-mate. I know that this is with the benefit of hindsight and is perhaps no big deal in itself. I am just saying he got it wrong. Secondly, having decided to help out in the aerial contest he had the obligation of ensuring (a) he got hands on the ball sufficient to prevent Higgins from having any chance and (b) he did not give up a free to Higgins for interference in the marking contest. What he was doing created a big risk that he would either interfere with Higgins or wipe out Armfield and he had to be sure that he didnt do one or the other if he could not win the contest himself. He did not win the contest himself. He did not get back in time to spoil the ball, just spoil Armfield.

Had Thornton been an AFL quality backman either Armfield would have known that T bird running back had the contest covered and could have pulled out of trying to spoil Higgins himself or Thornton would have realised he could not successfully be third man up and simply waited down to pick up any spillage. That is what an AFL quality backman does. As it happens Armfield was right to recognise that Thornton was not up to it and that if Higgins was to be stopped he would have to do it himself, as he did.

We should all recognise what Armfield bravely recognised to avoid receiving our own further, metaphorical, punch in the nose.
 
Windhover said:
You may well be right that Armfield went into the game with a broken nose. All I can say is that it was the last quarter, Armfield had no protective bandaging to the nose pre-incident and then coped an allmightly whack to the nose curtesy of Thornton which caused him to go straight off the ground bleeding.

As for Thornton doing nothing wrong I regret to say I disagree with you almost entirely. He did almost everything wrong. First of all he had to decide whether to help out in the aerial contest or trust his team-mate. As it happens he could have trusted his team-mate. I know that this is with the benefit of hindsight and is perhaps no big deal in itself. I am just saying he got it wrong. Secondly, having decided to help out in the aerial contest he had the obligation of ensuring (a) he got hands on the ball sufficient to prevent Higgins from having any chance and (b) he did not give up a free to Higgins for interference in the marking contest. What he was doing created a big risk that he would either interfere with Higgins or wipe out Armfield and he had to be sure that he didnt do one or the other if he could not win the contest himself. He did not win the contest himself. He did not get back in time to spoil the ball, just spoil Armfield.

Had Thornton been an AFL quality backman either Armfield would have known that T bird running back had the contest covered and could have pulled out of trying to spoil Higgins himself or Thornton would have realised he could not successfully be third man up and simply waited down to pick up any spillage. That is what an AFL quality backman does. As it happens Armfield was right to recognise that Thornton was not up to it and that if Higgins was to be stopped he would have to do it himself, as he did.

We should all recognise what Armfield bravely recognised to avoid receiving our own further, metaphorical, punch in the nose.
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So now your problem is that a defender went for a spoil. Right.

Armfield probably didn't even know Thornton was there, he just had his eyes on the ball and went for the spoil which both he and Thornton had every right to do. It happens in every team, in most games. As I said I understand your reasons for not liking Thornton but this bullshit incident you bring up every time exists only in your own head.
 

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Sin City said:
So now your problem is that a defender went for a spoil. Right.

Armfield probably didn't even know Thornton was there, he just had his eyes on the ball and went for the spoil which both he and Thornton had every right to do. It happens in every team, in most games. As I said I understand your reasons for not liking Thornton but this bullshit incident you bring up every time exists only in your own head.
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As you know all too well I am a great admirer of the defensive spoil and have explained previously (in respect of Thornton's marking, which is sound) that it is this art that is the first pre-requisite of a tall defender. I do not therefore have a problem with a defender going for a spoil. Call me unreasonable but I do have a problem with a defender going for a spoil and succeeding only in collecting his teammate and allowing a simple goal.
 
Windhover said:
As you know all too well I am a great admirer of the defensive spoil and have explained previously (in respect of Thornton's marking, which is sound) that it is this art that is the first pre-requisite of a tall defender. I do not therefore have a problem with a defender going for a spoil. Call me unreasonable but I do have a problem with a defender going for a spoil and succeeding only in collecting his teammate and allowing a simple goal.
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Armfield took the field with a broken nose and chose to fly into a pack. He's as courageous as they come and we love him for it, but it's not Thornton's fault this time. There are other legitimate deficiencies in Thornton's game that you love to waffle on about, why not discuss the ones that actually exist.
 
I think last Friday has changed my mind on T-Bird.

I thought that there was no hope for him in 2011 - however, his game as a leading forward last week changed my mind ... I think there could be a role for him this season, provided that all his kicks are directed forward.
 
Sin City said:
Armfield took the field with a broken nose and chose to fly into a pack. He's as courageous as they come and we love him for it, but it's not Thornton's fault this time. There are other legitimate deficiencies in Thornton's game that you love to waffle on about, why not discuss the ones that actually exist.
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Go back and look at the game. First there was no pack absent T bird. Secondly whether or not Armfield had a broken nose at the start of the game (which I doubt but can produce no evidence against your assertion and so resist calling you on it) his nose was certainly impacted by Thornton deleteriously. The deficiency highlighted by this incident was Thornton's inability to spoil the ball, for me the first requirement of a defender. I think I could live with other deficiencies (like attitude) that seem to upset others, and perhaps also his up in the air kicking, but I cannot accept his inability to spoil.
 
There are deficiencies in every players game, and every player makes multiple mistakes, and here is the kicker, EVERY GAME! Get over them, they are never going to ever ever end. Even the very best players, like Judd for example, make mistakes, fumbles, missed spoils or marks, on and on ad nausium, every friggin game.

So people, bringing up single incidents in games is near on pointless (and usually just highlights a deficiency in your posting). If they make mistakes and dont learn from them and get dropped and dont make it back, fair enough. If they make it back into the team, dredging them up makes you look like a tool, because it means that what you are effectively saying is that those knuckleheads on our MC dont see what you see, dont have the wherewithal to come to the same conclusions as you......and remind us again, why are they ON the MC and you are a BF whiner?
 

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40yearBLUE said:
There are deficiencies in every players game, and every player makes multiple mistakes, and here is the kicker, EVERY GAME! Get over them, they are never going to ever ever end. Even the very best players, like Judd for example, make mistakes, fumbles, missed spoils or marks, on and on ad nausium, every friggin game.

So people, bringing up single incidents in games is near on pointless (and usually just highlights a deficiency in your posting). If they make mistakes and dont learn from them and get dropped and dont make it back, fair enough. If they make it back into the team, dredging them up makes you look like a tool, because it means that what you are effectively saying is that those knuckleheads on our MC dont see what you see, dont have the wherewithal to come to the same conclusions as you......and remind us again, why are they ON the MC and you are a BF whiner?
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I think you will be surprised to discover I agree with everything you write. You are absolutely right that all players make mistakes every game. I did not bring up this particular incident as an explanation for why I believe Thornton should not be picked in the team. I brought up this particular incident because it was the LAST incident in the last game at AFL level that Thornton was involved with. As I had argued before the 2010 season began that Thornton was not a core player in the side that year, this moment has a certain poignancy for me. I do not want to have to replace this memory with a subsequent egregious example of why Thornton should not be in our best 22.
 
Or you dont want to have to accept that any player still on the playing list still has the opportunity to be selected, and if they are, they have obviously fullfilled the requirements set for them by the coaching staff. The last game a player plays is not the criteria used to determine if a player can re-earn their place, if it were it would be self evident and axiomatic that they would never again be selected because the reason they were dropped was their last game, and if that is what is referred to as the measure then it is self evident that having been dropped, nothing in that regard has changed. So I suggest you get over Thornton's or any other dropped players last game and move on.
 

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