Society/Culture Those who identify as left wing, what would you consider to be Extreme Left?

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Steinfreo

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This entire thread proves how f’ed the left HAD gotten. None of you have any up to date understandings of what the left is up to.

- the largest labor strike since 1923 is about to occur in California.
- the AMA in America has split ties with private insurance companies.
- Unilever has agreed to cut the use of plastics by 50% by 2025.
- Its looking like Lula in Brazil is about to get exonerated.
- If the dems win the US election there is probably going to be a wealth tax on billionares.
- The left widely is refocusing on economic and class struggle, and putting identity back in its appropriate place.
- there is explosive growth in the interest in worker coops, with some states in the US introducing funding programs to support the establishment of co-op businesses.
- Bernie just introduced the most bullet proof housing policy I have ever read, it is amazing.
- The under 35 demographic are increasingly understanding that the golden age of capital is over and its never coming back.

I am lucky I have someone I love feed me all your right-wing talking points and understandings of what they think the left is. Unfortunately you guys only have your eco-chambers so your views of the left are extremely limited. Go watch Richard Wolff, Michael Pakman, Michael Brooks. Listen to Bernie actually speak, not the fox hot takes. Actually learn what the left is up to and you may find some of it interesting.
 

Carringbush2010

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This entire thread proves how f’ed the left HAD gotten. None of you have any up to date understandings of what the left is up to.

- the largest labor strike since 1923 is about to occur in California.
- the AMA in America has split ties with private insurance companies.
- Unilever has agreed to cut the use of plastics by 50% by 2025.
- Its looking like Lula in Brazil is about to get exonerated.
- If the dems win the US election there is probably going to be a wealth tax on billionares.
- The left widely is refocusing on economic and class struggle, and putting identity back in its appropriate place.
- there is explosive growth in the interest in worker coops, with some states in the US introducing funding programs to support the establishment of co-op businesses.
- Bernie just introduced the most bullet proof housing policy I have ever read, it is amazing.
- The under 35 demographic are increasingly understanding that the golden age of capital is over and its never coming back.

I am lucky I have someone I love feed me all your right-wing talking points and understandings of what they think the left is. Unfortunately you guys only have your eco-chambers so your views of the left are extremely limited. Go watch Richard Wolff, Michael Pakman, Michael Brooks. Listen to Bernie actually speak, not the fox hot takes. Actually learn what the left is up to and you may find some of it interesting.
You haven't identified what you consider extremism from a left of centre perspective in this post. All you've done is mention some positive progressive ideas and some impractical ones.

I doubt anyone on BF would consider any of this as extremism.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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How can you be in favour of equality and a hedonist? Hedonism is antithetical to equality.
Is it? To my mind hedonistic pursuits depend greatly on the happiness of those around you - social harmony is the coin of the realm here. If some are segregated, if some are excluded, doesn't that just increase unhappiness? Societal misery is not the ideal place for a hedonistic atttitude to grow except as a direct response TO.

You have stated that social harmony is the goal - what characteristics does your social harmony take with full realised individuality? What you are talking about is something narrowly idealised to your frame of reference - ie the state should let me freely enjoy my peccadilloes and those of people whom I tolerate, but no one else's.
Fair points. My idea of social harmony though - it just takes no pleasure from exclusion. As I've said before, this does not mean equality of outcomes for everyone across the board but rather equality of opportunities. I fully acknowledge that 100% of the people are not going to be happy 100% of the time but there is so much that we ourselves can do to make the life and lives around us stay not so mired in the negativity of division.

Do you think the existence of billionaires are an injustice? If so, what are billionaires if not arch-hedonists?
That all depends on how they got their billions of course, but am I offended by the existence of rich people? No. I'm not.
 

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fyfe > dangerfield
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Is it? To my mind hedonistic pursuits depend greatly on the happiness of those around you - social harmony is the coin of the realm here. If some are segregated, if some are excluded, doesn't that just increase unhappiness? Societal misery is not the ideal place for a hedonistic atttitude to grow except as a direct response TO.



Fair points. My idea of social harmony though - it just takes no pleasure from exclusion. As I've said before, this does not mean equality of outcomes for everyone across the board but rather equality of opportunities. I fully acknowledge that 100% of the people are not going to be happy 100% of the time but there is so much that we ourselves can do to make the life and lives around us stay not so mired in the negativity of division.



That all depends on how they got their billions of course, but am I offended by the existence of rich people? No. I'm not.
how is your hedonism dependent on social harmony?
 

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fyfe > dangerfield
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Because I'm happiest when those around me are happy. Some hedonistic pursuits can be enjoyed at the individual level but by no means all.
what does your friends being happy have to do with administrative state being used to enforce arcane rules to maintain social harmony?

or do you seriously enjoy a night out on the turps and going home later to beat off to porn more after you hear a welcome to country or a trans self-id law is passed? serious question.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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what does your friends being happy have to do with administrative state being used to enforce arcane rules to maintain social harmony?
There's the individual. The individual is part of a family. The individual has friends. The community is made from hundreds of these interpersonal networks. Thousands even. And so society. The nation. The world.

I'd prefer the government DIDN'T enforce so many rules and regulations regarding social harmony. That article you posted earlier about the Dutch firefighters union was actually instructional - one of the union members basically said that change itself wasn't bad but that forcing the issue was what was being resisted. Being MADE to do something rather than adjusting to new things and changing realities at their own pace.

Elements of compromise are essential in all things. I believe that.

do you seriously enjoy a night out on the turps and going home later to beat off to porn more after you hear a welcome to country or a trans self-id law is passed? serious question.
I enjoy a night on the turps regardless of any of the other stuff happening. I might think 'Good on 'em' but my state of arousal depends on a wee bit more than that! You seriously want to know about my wanking habits?;)
 

Geelong_Sicko

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marxist shoving moron ideology down peoples throats dressed up as something beneficial.

Some pillocks fell for it, most are intelligent enough to see the turd for what it is.
Yes. For unparalleled evil such as this


...Our resources are designed to help schools to create an inclusive and safe learning environment, so all students can participate and engage with their studies and school activities to the best of their abilities...
Safe Schools should be rightfully demonised as an intellectual, even spiritual Holocaust visited upon us. Imagine that? 'Inclusive' and 'safe' learning environments!! And 'environment' is a word make up by pinko greenies! Don't tell me they're in this as well? Who needs that?

The sooner we introduce the death penalty for these cultural marxists the better, right?
 

medusala

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Safe Schools should be rightfully demonised as an intellectual, even spiritual Holocaust visited upon us. Imagine that? 'Inclusive' and 'safe' learning environments!! And 'environment' is a word make up by pinko greenies! Don't tell me they're in this as well? Who needs that?
The political purpose of Newspeak is to eliminate the expression of the shades of meaning inherent to ambiguity and nuance from Oldspeak (Standard English) in order to reduce the language's function of communication, by way of simplistic concepts of simple construction
 

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jackenny

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Censorship ("political correctness"). I don't like censorship (in regard to punishing someone for saying offensive shit) unless there's demonstrable damages, like defamation or discrimination in the workplace where it impedes on a person's livelihood. I don't define "damage" as simply being offended.

No free market (everything is government owned). I don't want everything to be government owned, which is pretty straightforward, although I am a strong proponent of unions and labour laws. I am okay with the government propping up, subsidising, or outright owning certain utilities or businesses for the sake of our national security however (for example, Australia's oil refineries are practically nonexistent and we don't stockpile enough refined oil - we stockpile less than what national security experts suggest - because of business decisions by those oil refineries to shut down, while the government simply doesn't care that they're shutting down - despite that being a major national security risk if we're somehow cut off from importing refined oil).

"Nanny state" laws (like banning motorcycle gangs which I greatly dislike because it sets a dangerous precedent and I am a strong believer in Freedom of Association). I don't like any law that undermines the idea of what are largely considered human rights, basically - especially under the guise of being in our "best interests".

Spying on your own citizens / journalists. Self-explanatory in regard to citizens. Journalists are bottom feeders for the most part, but I don't like governments / police spying on them, or even having the power to compel journalists to reveal their sources as that has the potential to be grossly abused.

I believe extreme lefties like to introduce overbearing laws, and spy on and censor their citizens, basically.

I consider myself a lefty, though. Though I am probably closer to being moderate than extreme left.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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The political purpose of Newspeak is to eliminate the expression of the shades of meaning inherent to ambiguity and nuance from Oldspeak (Standard English) in order to reduce the language's function of communication, by way of simplistic concepts of simple construction
See, I always thought that Safe Schools was a program that ensured kids didn't get bullied no matter their background. Or if boys prefer to play dolls with the girls. Or girls play footy and roughhouse with the boys.

If negative and abusive terms were recognised and 'taught' out of existence at an early period of learning, maybe this would be good. Depending on the terms of course. Are they dual-use? Multi-use? As you say, nuance can cover a wide range of terminologies. An abusive term might have three other meanings and all might be erased if we wipe it from everyday language.
 

medusala

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You are wrong.
Written by the architect of safe schools. its not about bullying its about pursuing an agenda.

From blues to rainbows: the mental health and wellbeing of gender diverse and transgender young people in Australia


...

In her own words.

Instead, the battle over Safe Schools is part of a broader power struggle led by a group of conservatives in the ruling elite who, together with their supporters, will stop at nothing to maintain and perpetuate a set of narrow and oppressive ideas about gender and sexuality.
 

CM86

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Written by the architect of safe schools. its not about bullying its about pursuing an agenda.

From blues to rainbows: the mental health and wellbeing of gender diverse and transgender young people in Australia

...

In her own words.

Instead, the battle over Safe Schools is part of a broader power struggle led by a group of conservatives in the ruling elite who, together with their supporters, will stop at nothing to maintain and perpetuate a set of narrow and oppressive ideas about gender and sexuality.
"The architect".

There is a reason you need to find all kinds of conspiracies and unusual outliers... it's because you can't actually say that the only reason you disagree with safe schools, is because you're actually homophobic.

And yes I'll be called out for giving you a 'label'. Even though you dismiss an entire national program that had evidence of working... by labeling one person as a 'socialist'...

It's the same technique you use to 'fight' against the racial discrimination act.
 

medusala

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There is a reason you need to find all kinds of conspiracies and unusual outliers... it's because you can't actually say that the only reason you disagree with safe schools, is because you're actually homophobic.
Given you defend anti semitism so loudly its hardly a surprise you defend this sort of nonsense.

No decent person can possibly condone the government being involved in this sort of thing. Schools are for learning not for having whacky propaganda shoved down children's throats.

And yes I'll be called out for giving you a 'label'. Even though you dismiss an entire national program that had evidence of working... by labeling one person as a 'socialist'...
Marxist.
 

Gough

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Meds can go and stand with those Muslim Pakistani Brits who are picketing schools teaching similar over there.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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Given you defend anti semitism so loudly its hardly a surprise you defend this sort of nonsense.

No decent person can possibly condone the government being involved in this sort of thing. Schools are for learning not for having whacky propaganda shoved down children's throats.
This is what Safe Schools is trying to prevent.




TYRONE Unsworth, the Brisbane teenager who killed himself last month following a spate of homophobic bullying, told a friend that “everyone wanted him dead,” the day before he took his own life.

Gypsie-Lee Edwards Kennard said she was on a fishing trip with Tyrone when he revealed just how bad the bullying had got.

“He was an absolute mess, crying his eyes out and telling me everyone wants him dead and I said, ‘Tyrone, what do you mean everyone wants you dead?’,” Ms Edwards Kennard told 7.30.

In October, the Aspley State High School student was hospitalised after a violent clash, allegedly with another student, outside of the school grounds.

His heartbroken mum Amanda claimed her son was hit in the jaw with a fence paling so hard that he required surgery and was too afraid to return to school after the incident...
Surely it's not evil to want to help kids like Tyrone? Surely its not a crime against humanity to say he belongs in mainstream society as much as anybody else?
 

Seeds

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One thing that bugs me on the left is the discussion around 'privilege'. When I hear the word "privilege" I think of undeserved advantages that a person has managed to procure. Examples might be bribing one's way into a university that would not have otherwise accepted you or inheriting so much wealth that one does not have to work. When I hear the word tied to an identity (e.g., male privilege or white privilege), it bugs me a lot. I do get that white males (just for an example) generally find it easier to achieve certain things than black people (in the US) or women (just about everywhere). Not denying that. But, I think the word "privilege" makes it sound too much like those achievements must have been (somehow) unearned, when that may not be true (many white males do work their asses off!). To me, the root of the problem is not the advantage of the advantaged group; it's the disadvantage of the disadvantaged group that needs to be fixed (their 'un-privilege'?).

E.g., one of the 'privileges' of being white is that the police don't pull you over 'randomly' as much as they would if you were black. I'm sorry, but that's not a 'privilege' that needs to be resolved, it's something that everyone should reasonably expect!

I think it's just the word that I am having a hard time with - I do want equal opportunity for all identity groups. I just get a bit tired of being told to "check my privilege" as if doing that is actually going to achieve anything.

I'm happy to have my mind changed though!
Interesting post.
 

medusala

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medusala

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Meds can go and stand with those Muslim Pakistani Brits who are picketing schools teaching similar over there.
You can stand in the corner with those ruining kids lives.


In short, a professional clinician who worked at the NHS centre for transgender children has painted a picture of a service where vulnerable young people are potentially being pushed into serious, life-altering medical and social choices on the basis of dubious evidence, by staff either unwilling or unable to act with caution and care.
 

Carringbush2010

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See, I always thought that Safe Schools was a program that ensured kids didn't get bullied no matter their background. Or if boys prefer to play dolls with the girls. Or girls play footy and roughhouse with the boys.

If negative and abusive terms were recognised and 'taught' out of existence at an early period of learning, maybe this would be good. Depending on the terms of course. Are they dual-use? Multi-use? As you say, nuance can cover a wide range of terminologies. An abusive term might have three other meanings and all might be erased if we wipe it from everyday language.
What is an abusive term for one might be a passing observation for another.

"Hey look Johnny's wearing lip stick" - I'm sure in someone's mind that is an abusive term. For someone else that is a passing observation.

So how does the safe school program provide a safe space for everyone? It can't.

This is the thinking of the left without realizing the impracticalities of things like safe school programs or gender neutral toilets. Sure it might alleviate the bullying but I'd be worried if I was a parent of a little girl in a school with one of these programs.
 

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