Stan_Darsh72
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Thoughts on Australia as a nuclear power?
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I would suggest your right
the best way to win a war is have sufficient deterrent and sufficient trade to make conflict an unattractive option
I'd hope we reduce our planned sub fleet from 12 to 6 and increase our investment in drones and AI. This will be cheaper, safer and more effective.
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The problem is that we can remove fissile weapons grade material from Sub reactors.
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Is it just me or will these subs simply be an extension of the US Navy in a convienient strategic location.
The only thing Australian about them is the crew and we get to pay for them.
The only thing Australian about them is the crew and we get to pay for them.
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China are very technologically sophisticated.
In some areas of biotech, they have long outstripped the rest of the world. Mainly in gene modification, upscaling of gene sequencing and applications thereof.
But certain things are very hard to make, even if you try to steal or repurpose foreign IP. Jet engines, stealth technology and submarines. For example, they can acquire the schematics for an F22, but those engines and control systems require decades of experienced and sophisticated manufacturing, technical and programming capability, to get right.
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my punt is we will go for a high assay low enriched fuel which is currently being produced in Sydney, the benefit of this is it burns cleaner and doesn't have this risk. I was wondering why Australia started this program secretly around 12 months ago but it is becoming much clearer now.
there has been discussions a third entity sitting between CSIRO and ANSTO was to be created, again the reason for this is much clearer
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the idea of nuclear being unaffordable is a reference to $5b 1.6 to 3.2 GW power stations that take years to build
new generation is $55m-$70m including 20 years of fuel and maiden life of 40 years that can be extended. Being demand responsive and no requirement for a safe working zone alleviates past concerns.
- Jan 12, 2011
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First Sub will not hit the water til 2040
If anything is going to happen it will be all over by then
Australia - "Hey don't start anything until we are ready...you guys need to wait for us"
If anything is going to happen it will be all over by then
Australia - "Hey don't start anything until we are ready...you guys need to wait for us"
It will be coming.
We are unique in this part of the world, we are Asian and we are Anglo Saxon Celtic European, our culture is a Western Democracy (perhaps our mix now days is like Russia, geographically being looked at as being a Western country and an Eastern country because of its spread)
We are that way a little because of our position on earth , smack bang as a foundation of western democracies at the bottom of Asia.
But we live in Asia and have to be aware of that Asianess.
We are an advanced nation as well, courtesy of our history and from the European powers and from colonisation, which has formed itself into a mdern 1st world country in the main not easily we were mostly convicts at the start. We're here now although there is still away to go there to being a people in agreement ???
Then the last 100 years holding our western democracy together against many many challenges along side our major Ally the USA.
Think what you like about Trump or Biden or Bush or Obama , the USA is our major, and very important ally and so is The UK.
So to not offend anyone , we also have allies in the region, one as a strong ally that was an enemy once.
We also have a major growing power China, which has behaved very badly towards us, now the problem there is simple, they
are not open , they may trade around the world but they only think in terms of their own advancement without return, to who they use to their advance.
They may actually only be business oriented, but have built up their military, looking like more outwardly rather than for it's own protection?
Perhaps to keep its CCP regime in power only?
They take offence in a second, to everything .
Because they never really let on what or how they think .
Remember also that they may not be what we think at all??
There lies the terrible danger of over reaction from the West, or!? Danger from China mistaking things for aggression when they are not.
I'm a Westerner, I have no idea about why the West or America or any other country would want to start a war with China.
There's the point, the whole point of why we need to have a mass deterrent, along with America and UK and any others .
Because it doesn't look very calm does it?
We haven't got a clue what China is up to?
Every nation on the earth would want a full investigation into every aspect of COVID19, but China don't want anything to be looked into at all, only totally controlled by them, the last investigation was a failure! Who and how many people countries militaries perhaps were involved, why hide it unless you have something to hide!
Then China has this obsession, with a neighbour, a free nation called Taiwan, threatens it and why ?
When China are becoming economically powerful and and advancing their nation forward, why would it worry about war!
But...It builds its military , it sanctions and insults those who have been friends, it builds military base, islands in the South China Sea.
It claims areas that the modern world does not recognise, it has 5 or so Asian countries that it thumbs its nose at .
It warns shipping off, about distances from what they claim is their territory, it fishes allegedly where it has no rights??
It flies war planes over Taiwan.?????
Now it has shot itself in the foot, over coal supplies and COVID19 problems and lockdowns, stopping delivery of coal for national energy for China, which they get from Mongolia, the stuff we used to sell them. They snubbed our best in the world coal.
How do you figure this CCP out?
They spy, apparently using HAUWEI,how I have no idea, some of you debaters may know?
Not just Australia, but Holland I read about. And in America cyber attacked from Russia with love ha ha , who knows what for or how. China too, why?
But we appear to think that, it is malicious cyber attacking? How could you know what they are up to?
Except they are up to something?
So after all that , we are aiming to keep our western democracy the way it is, but stronger!
With clear and clean allied agreements and to pay our way as a major actor in the Asia Pacific, by firstly obtaining some real underwater power, which we have some now, but nuclear subs and down the track, more of the same.
Because what ever you think about China what ever you know or don't know , is why you arm yourself and ally, with others to protect the way of life we have! The best way of life is in the West, its why people flee to it!!!!!
We have to protect western democratic nations, without allowing others of different life patterns to compromise what and who we are.
The only way is to be strong enough to stop any one taking a chance against our combination of nations! Or even just us?
It is a massive deterrent needed.
As for deterrents , think on this , we are an animal evolved on this planet, that is so dangerous and violent and war like and hungry for everything,we are greedy, we are the worst, killer, of all killers on earth ,we're the human being!
Because of what we are, we have had to invent the most horrific world annihilating weapon ( massive megaton nuclear bombs)
to stop ourselves from going to a world ending war.
Unfortunately to all little individual human beings, this is exactly a fact of all our lives. Every one of the 8 billion.
So Australia needs this power and agreement. Also if we haven't already (like Israel???) not got "that" deterrent, then we need to start now.
By the way to the climate warmer cult, nuclear power is clean!
Oh Maybe we might be lucky enough to house a US and UK deep water Naval Base in our North.
We have no choice, so there is no question! Bring on the serious defence build up of our nation and our allies, so we never have to defend ourselves Ever!
And our friends we traded with once might start again. At least we'll have something to give back and bargain with , as it should be all over the world.
Because we are unfortunately Human Beings , Homo Sapiens , the most dangerous mongrels this planet ever had to put up with!
Hope thats not too long for some of you!
Gotta be something for the right wingers to wank off about in 2040 when we're knees deep in a climate crisis
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Read an article regarding that as well with conventional Subs being more suitable for coastal areas. From that it sounds like we should have a mixture of both types
- Jun 22, 2008
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How much extra did Bomber Beazley's Collins Class end up costing us? How many billions for going with a never before built, straight from the drawing board design?
How much extra would it have cost us to bastardise the original French design?
Yes it's $2.4b thrown away for nothing but it could save us money in the long run. Time will tell.
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Problem with having a mix is the boats spend half their life being maintained, and the crews spend half their time training. So you need a large number of them just to have even a couple in their active theatre. So if we split our fleet in to 2 types we end up with 1 or 2 of each being on active duty, 1 or 2 of them stationed north on standby, and the rest will be in Sydney or Adelaide or where-ever they are being maintained, or somewhere else in training.
Multiple types is fine for the US, but we are a minnow by comparison.
And the other issue will be the actual submariners. I would assume the boats are sufficiently different that crew wont be able to alternate so we will need 2 separate groups - in the most difficult of all boats to properly staff.
Hello sailor! Navy offers $50,000 per man in bid to keep sub fleet afloat
Sailors' bank balances to shape-up. If they don't ship-out.
This was 5 years ago, but it has been an issue for decades.
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The Swedes had their version of the Collins up and running in a fraction of the time for a fraction of the cost. But they went where the best skills were for building the hull and designing and installing the weapons system.
We built where it was politically expedient, and went with an American designed weapons system because they told us to.
Billions upon billions were wasted, and it took a decade longer than it should have - though what we ended up with was actually world class. We were just kind of lucky no war actually started.
Pie eyed
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Nuclear Subs does not mean nuclear weapons.
The subs are powered by nuclear reactors.
- Jun 22, 2008
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Like Myki in Melbourne, we couldn't just go with something off the shelf from somewhere, we had to reinvent the wheel and yes it was the American fire control system that caused huge problems and cost billions.
France, UK and US all tried split fleets and have gone full nuclear as split flèets are not sustainable.
On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Pie eyed
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Hawke inherited the Collins class ballzup from Fraser.
The upgrade from the old subs was proposed by the Libs in 78 and the Labour opposition supported it.
The defense "experts" responsible for the decision to go with the end result were largely Liberal appointees.
That's not by way of excuse mind you.
Every defense purchase the Government (either colour) has made in my life time has been a total ******* fiasco and actually amounts to nothing but a huge financial donations to a corporation and/or foreign governments like the US.
It speaks volumes of the total abject lack of competence many of our top defence personnel and alleged "experts" have.
That said, the last generation of subs should have been nuclear, and rather than waste another 145 billion on out of date rubbish foregoing 2.4 billion now to change tack makes much more sense.
Lets hope a sub actually gets delivered this time before the next generation are due.
The next contract should be on a payment after the keys are handed over, with a 10 year warranty and free servicing guarantee..
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