Biden's team has been trying to rebuild the traditional democratic bridges Trump burned down.
Trump was too busy with his pals, his Bum buddy from the hermit kingdom & Putin.
Thoughts on Australia as a nuclear power?
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Biden's team has been trying to rebuild the traditional democratic bridges Trump burned down.
Trump was too busy with his pals, his Bum buddy from the hermit kingdom & Putin.
No blockade, not invade. I'm sure you understand the difference & the invasion option is of your own making, not mine.
Ned_Flanders
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so China to quote you will be "taking from Australia what they want" by not letting us send ore or coal to china?
Kwakiutl sounds like a Dutton wannabe.
Only the USA destroys their own supply lines
A blockade controls what leaves & where it goes ?
The efficiency of Australian coal a factor?
Unless the US protects Aus ports ...
.. China will call the shots IF it moves on Taiwan.
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Kwak's posts across multiple threads actually do something I would not have thought possible - makes Dutton look reasonably informed.
You can pick a loser when they resort to name calling & 'the usual suspects' limp to agree ......
Ned_Flanders
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This coming from the guy who said a rape victim only made her allegations to get paid
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Really? He did this? Wow!
Only a coward would blame a victim of sexual assault from behind a made up name on social media.
And he calls others 'losers'? Zero self awareness.
Pie eyed
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I am not sure that is even remotely true.
But in any case;
There is a pretty good argument for actually retaining the current French contract, for non-nuclear submarines.
It is tactical rather than political which makes far more sense as a measure of suitability then just Dutton wanting a bigger weapon for his ego and a political tool which gives the impression he strong on defence.
Short version.
Current (French, US, UK) Nuclear powered subs are best fit for show of strength/support for nuclear armed nuclear platforms.
They are much larger in both height and length, more detectable, less suited to shallow waters (which surround Australia, especially to our North)
The Yellow Peril and now Reds under the beds and all that.
"Securing sea lines of communication and the nation’s seaboard remains paramount in Australia’s national defence strategy. Diesel-electric submarines (SSK) excel in littoral (relating to or situated on the shore of the sea or a lake.) or coastal waters, as is the case for the continent’s northern and northwestern approaches. And Australia’s strategic alliance interests are well served by providing the US Navy with an operational submarine capability it needs but doesn’t have. The US values RAN submarines for their littoral capabilities that form a natural extension to United States Navy (USN) nuclear submarine operations.
Current Non- nuclear are best fit for above scenario, border control, defence surveillance, allied cooperation, combat naval defence and counter operations against an attacking force.
In no scenario will either platform be used for nuclear weapons capable of strike or retaliatory actions.
So the real question is;
Are we as a Nation wanting to project a strong defensive presence and capability, that of a potential aggressor?
I know what I think Dutton believes. He wants to Australia to project an aggressive stance.
Notice I say stance as no matter what the platform, Australian can on provide a defensive or support capability in any submarine scenario
Australia can only sit by and take orders in any aggressive naval action against a foreign power by an AUKUS member, which in reality mean that all AUKUS members take orders from the US Navy/Government.
I also know Paine originally did not support the nuclear option as the best option at the time the original order was placed with the French because of more localised issues.
Her own words in response to Abbott whining about not getting the Nuclear option he wanted:
"Australia currently lacks the qualified personnel, experience, infrastructure, training facilities and regulatory systems required to design, construct, operate and maintain a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines … Developing a sovereign nuclear-submarine fleet would come at a very substantial cost premium to our conventional fleet."
Given the looming election and the strong possibility that the Libs will get rolled I find it very unnecessary that Dutton make any decision on who builds what type of boat, until after the result is known.
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It isn't remotely true.
But your comment about Dutton and Morrison shamefully and recklessly politicking our defence pre-election is spot on
For those wondering who this Senator Rex Patrick from SA is - he is an independent Senator and former business leader who has actually served on both Australian AND US (nuclear) submarines and has strong links in the hierarchy of both defence forces.
Someone who, unlike our resident LNP and Dutton fanboi 'Kwalty' actually knows what the feck they are talking about when it comes to the topic of Australia's crumbling defence strategy.
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Australia becoming a nuclear power would be worse than Iran becoming one, and if that happens, I hope there would be some kind of external military intervention to remove them.
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A change of government with the alternative will be disastrous , they will turn back nothing to "better times" really, they are policy free, and Albanese and his 600,000 renewable jobs is fantasy land.
And if Australia has lagged in getting itself militarily organised the USA and the UK are the only way to go now if thats the case , I personally get a buit sick of commentators on TV telling us all the flaws in our system as if they jknow the whole story, and if you have jhalf a brain you tell no one your story.,
Better than Chinese Bisuness men with paper bags full of money. Yes???
Nuclear power clean new not Chernobyl and small in size , may take 15 years to develop better than the 100 year wait for renewables that haven't proved themselves and all gone crazy about them from global warming nuts , when the globe has warmed and ccooled for ever .
So nuclear power for clean guaranteed enrgy for base load power, this country is mad if we do not open it up, and if the Green left ALP appose it , their clean air argument is IN THE TOILET, welliot always was.
We need to look to who we can trust, and After this abomination by Putin OK'd by China, I think I know who I trust, I know my friends and I know my enemies , I wonder if Albanese does, and as Albanese blabs about solar batteries recharging your car battety for work next da, over night , he forget to mention the sun don't shine at night and sometimes the wind don't blow brothers. But not all the time , no, but enough to render the renewable doubts as totally and probably something to be really worried about.
While our money bag friends build Coal fire Power stations and the disputed science of we are ruining the world with pollution and fanatics day dream about things that do not work 100% percent yet and may never WE NEED NUCLEAR POWER.
EVERY THING HAS A RISK Nuclear risk is much less now , and being born is risky. so lets shut all the Gretas up, and go clean.
Why would nuclear power be a disaster for us? Not weapons but energy, we are not Iran , we do not hate Israel or want to destroy it?????? So how can we be considered a disaster if we produced clean energy. Might take 15 years to get going but we have to start, and we have the yellow cake in the ground!???????????????????????????????????????
Yes its our friends the USA! And any way we want a US deep water naval base in the North so we and the UK and other friends can use it, along with our American allies.
Watch the BF jaws drop , but it is actually a good idea. And , even Albo bragged about setting up Marine base here in our North , but who sold Darwin to China, who ever that was a shitty mistake. Until China can be trusted , we can never give an inch , or we will be finished.
Now to all the noble do good typed people who seem to have a passion for hating the Americans , (WHY I AM STILL BAFFLED)
this is actually really what is happening our friends are our allies and looking at RUSSIA RIGHT NOW AND CHINA'S REACTION TO IT, SEEMS VERY UNPLEASANT AN OUTLOOK!
China must condemn the murder happening in the Ukraine, and the dictator a mixture of Hitler and Stalin needs arresting today! Think about it kids , know your enemy.
Building a nuclear sub base in brizzy is re-funkin-tarded.
The most useless place for a nuc to be is above cape york in 40m of water.
They cant transit it.
I wouldnt even want to put a conventional boat there,
The whole point of a sub is to hide in 3 dimensions not 2!!!!
Theres a reason why garden island has been a sub base since ww2 - its a long way from potential enemies and its transit routes northbound are deep.
Pie eyed
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Freo should not be as redneck as it is being so far from the equator, but statistically the most right wing halfwits on this forum all come from Fremantle?
You just have to look at the stats.
Funny thing is they post stuff, ignorantly, just to fanboi their dickhead Liberal moron masters, without looking at either the topography of the area or the actual publically reported requirements of both, the US and UK Navy's in regard to submarine support.
Just your average idiot from Perth (Freo) suckin right wing dick on a forum?
Why would anyone want to invade Australia - is there anything in any of the major cities of value. Blockading the ports that export our minerals makes sense.
Our food production is of value & to get them, blockade makes more sense than a WW2 style advance & the Japanese didnt go there.
logic spot on.Garden Island/HMAS Stirling is a post WW2 development:The planning of Stirling began in 1969 when, after it was decided to create the Two-Ocean Policy, a feasibility study into the use of Garden Island as a naval base was begun.
... formally commissioned on 28 July 1978
The first major unit to call Fleet Base West home was HMAS Stuart, having first been assigned to Stirling in 1984 for several years and, after refitting in the east, again in 1988 until decommissioning in 1991.
The first submarine to be based at Stirling was HMAS Oxley in 1987.
HMAS Stirling - Wikipedia
WW2:
Fremantle, which was well out of reach of land-based Japanese aircraft, became the main base of the US submarines,[7] with the first ten arriving by 10 March 1942.[8] Apart from the US submarines, three Dutch submarines also arrived in Fremantle at the time, while four others of the Dutch submarines had escaped to Ceylon.[9] Fremantle provided a safe, large harbour but had the disadvantage of being far away from the submarines' patrol areas and being difficult to reinforce should a Japanese attack take place.[7] Despite this remoteness, experience taught the US command to be cautious and to split the submarines in Fremantle and send five of them and a submarine tender, the USS Holland (AS-3), even further south on 15 March, now to Albany, where the Holland stayed for the next four months.[10]
Fremantle submarine base - Wikipedia
Pie eyed
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Almost every single war is basic armed robbery - on the nation / state scale.
It's that junkie with a syringe full of blood robbing the 7/11.
Just scaled up…
Weve got it, people want it. What happens when twiggys green steel thing starts taking off?
What happens when with automation and unlimited room for green power instead of selling iron ore to china, we are their biggest competitor?
When europes green rules kick in and they only buy from us?
Me…. Id want to make sure the adf can make it too hard to consider…. Regardless of whether or not theres an isolationist us president in power…..
The bleedin' obvious, just dont make that out to be an invasion ... dont worry about Canberra.
Pie eyed
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True.
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