Thoughts on Australia as a nuclear power?

[Admiral Byng]

I was part of the team setting up all of the warehousing for them before I changed branches. I think we did manage to get one into the air and it was deemed to be too dangerous.

I think Australia needs to get out of the mindset that we can keep ordering things that are bespoke or heavily modified for our own use. We should favour buying off the shelf stuff.

 

[kranky al]

Con? Sonar:
"Sonar"?
"Con, we are picking up this god awful racket which is screwing with our listening capabilities."
"Sonar. can you you describe the racket?"
"Con, Tambourines, out of tune guitars, could be Balalaika? Some maybe only have 3 strings!"

Cuts to Denzel pouting a little one eyebrow raised, just slightly..

US Sub Commander "XO? Thoughts"

The Denz "Commander, The Aussies. It's Morrison! I spent time with him in Canberra when we sold them the F-35's, when he was in advertising!"

US Sub Commander "Didn't he get the sack? How can you be sure it's him?"

The Denz. "He rattles his tambourine and strumbs an old out of tune six string on the hour. Handles a few snake an sh*t!"

US Sub commander "Rating what's the time?"

An anonymous Navy dude in white navy issue Tee, both sleeves rolled up with cigarette behind his left ear, snaps to attention "6 bells Sir".

US Sub Commander "Fire Control!"

"Commander!"

US Sub Commander "Fire Control, ready tubes 2 and 4, do not open the outer doors"

Fire Control " Sir What if he hears us?"

US Sub Commander "He won't hear us over that crap. If he starts singing open the outer doors and let me know immediately!"

"Con, Communications."

The Denz "What is it Comms?"

"Sir we have a message from fleet command that there is an periscope bearing 125, in the center of the battle group."

The Denz "Comms send this message to Fleet Command"

"Aware of enemy sub.. Stop. Deal done with Morrison to inflate the effectiveness of their impotent
subs...Stop.
Australian Navy allowed to take promotional photographs only...Stop...
No video and certainly not allowed to broadcast evangelical music.. Stop.
Please ask Canberra to have Morrison desist immediately...Stop"

"Fire Control, this is the Con!"

"Fire Control"
"Fire Control. Stand down. Nothing to worry about"
Fire Control "Yes Sir!"

Stirring 80's music rises, shots of men smiling and high fiving..

Over the top drifts a swelling raucous cacophony of Evangelist band music...a slight crackle, then silence.


Pause for effect


Men openly hugging, cheering.
80's Music reaches a crescendo.

Cut to the US flag fluttering over the Capitol.

Needs more topgun homo-erotica

 

[Nickoo]

I'm not sure it makes us any safer to have nuclear weapons unless we felt we couldn't rely on our partners and allies to jump in to help us.

Are we getting nuclear weapons? It’s just the propulsion system.


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[Nickoo]

Nuclear powered subs won't violate the treaty.

For decades our Defence White Paper has been largely about protecting the sea lane between Australia and Singapore, where a lot of our refining capacity exists. The major advantage that nuclear powered subs have over conventional subs is range, and the fact they don't have to snort every ~48 hours which makes the vulnerable to air attack.
Range for nuclear powered subs are limited by food stores (1) and the morale of a crew being underwater for days/weeks at a time.

This is a major capacity upgrade for Australia but I do wonder how it will be received regionally. India, South Korea and Japan will be over the moon (no doubt high-ranking Indians officials were briefed recently on the Dutton visit) but China will be pissed. A nuclear powered sub Australia (and the associated maintenance facility for US subs docking here) is probably the only real threat to China's authority in the SC Sea.

Sounds good all round.


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[JackFlash]

LOL'd all you want, it's more than a problem when the unfit for office President of the USA can't remember our PMs name and refers to him as “that fella down under… Never in my lifetime has America been so weak and we foolishly think they have our back?

 

[Nickoo]

Nobody ever looks down their nose and sternly asks where's the money coming from when it comes to this sort of thing, to take action on climate change it seems everything has to be costed down to the last cent.

We spend so much on solar and other renewable power ( pump hydro ), wind etc it’s crazy. 2.4K per solar install federally funded. Thousands of installs each year.


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[Nickoo]

One of the reasons was the shallow waters of SE Asia. Conventional subs are a lot better at sneaking through because generally they have been far smaller.

Those shallow waters were being surveyed by Australian scientists under contract from the Chinese and only cancelled this year. Crazy stuff and academics were going mental over the cancellation.


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[Nickoo]

$36B nuclear vs $90B conventional

we should have done this 10 years ago

Absolutely but like 7.30 reported tonight governments were spooked by anti nuclear protestors of the past. The ABC will be out to whip that up stuff again.


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[Nickoo]

Excellent news and about time, we should go Nuclear with everything else! The biggest concern is the madness of the Left in both the USA and Australia.

The Chinese are experimenting with molten salt reactors which are even safer. Wouldn’t be surprised if these boats eventually get that technology. Also I’d say we’ll probably lease one of the older Virginia or Los Angeles missile class subs that are 20+ years old to get into the frame of handling this. I’m surprised with people saying we won’t have a boat till 2040. In reality the first boats will be more built stateside/UK and this will change but the 1st one will come off in maybe as soon as 8-9 years, 2030 and full builds maybe by 2040. The US builds them in sets of about 5 boats at a time I think.


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[Nickoo]

First Sub will not hit the water til 2040

If anything is going to happen it will be all over by then

Australia - "Hey don't start anything until we are ready...you guys need to wait for us"

No we’re going to lease either one or two of either the old Los Angeles class or early Virginia class subs to build up expertise. They’re going to take 18months to work out how this all happens but it’s certain that within 3 years based out of Adelaide are going to be Australian operated Nuclear subs. The first subs more made Uk/us will roll off within 10years and gradually increase local production. Good news for Adelaide. US m/UK will roll Aus into existing production schedules.


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[Fire]

LOL'd all you want, it's more than a problem when the unfit for office President of the USA can't remember our PMs name and refers to him as “that fella down under… Never in my lifetime has America been so weak and we foolishly think they have our back?

I would trust Biden to defend us far more than Trump. Jesus, were you not paying attention to how he treated allies, from Nato to the Kurds?

But yes, quietly I am concerned that the US has become too politically unstable for Australia to completley tie their security to.

 

[Ok Boomer]

It is absolutely ridiculous that we do not do more with Nuclear. We export Uranium but refuse to use it ourselves, typical dumbass Australian logic.

 

[Kwality]

The Chinese are experimenting with molten salt reactors which are even safer. Wouldn’t be surprised if these boats eventually get that technology. Also I’d say we’ll probably lease one of the older Virginia or Los Angeles missile class subs that are 20+ years old to get into the frame of handling this. I’m surprised with people saying we won’t have a boat till 2040. In reality the first boats will be more built stateside/UK and this will change but the 1st one will come off in maybe as soon as 8-9 years, 2030 and full builds maybe by 2040. The US builds them in sets of about 5 boats at a time I think.


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China Is About to Test Its Thorium-Fueled Nuclear Reactor

China will start tests on its first molten-salt nuclear reactor! Based on thorium, the new technology could serve as a major milestone for the world.

interestingengineering.com

An experimental nuclear reactor in China is making waves.

Fuelled with thorium, the China-based nuclear reactor is about to start tests.
While this radioactive element has seen reactor trials before, many scientists and industry experts agree that this could make China the first country to come within leaping distance of developing the technology to a commercial scale, according to a report from the journal Nature.

 

[Pessimistic]

Nuclear powered subs won't violate the treaty.

For decades our Defence White Paper has been largely about protecting the sea lane between Australia and Singapore, where a lot of our refining capacity exists. The major advantage that nuclear powered subs have over conventional subs is range, and the fact they don't have to snort every ~48 hours which makes the vulnerable to air attack.
Range for nuclear powered subs are limited by food stores (1) and the morale of a crew being underwater for days/weeks at a time.

This is a major capacity upgrade for Australia but I do wonder how it will be received regionally. India, South Korea and Japan will be over the moon (no doubt high-ranking Indians officials were briefed recently on the Dutton visit) but China will be pissed. A nuclear powered sub Australia (and the associated maintenance facility for US subs docking here) is probably the only real threat to China's authority in the SC Sea.

wouldn't it be far cheaper to retain our independent refining capability etc?

when I think of the clear and present threats to the welfare of Australians, anything mitigated by having submarines is way down the list.

(Unless it’s preserving the lines to supply the rest of the world with our cheap raw materials, and not about Australians at all)


quite part from our currents govenments ambition to have nuclear power being way off kilter from its actual competence to manage anything never mind a nuclear program

 

[Pessimistic]

Excellent news and about time, we should go Nuclear with everything else! The biggest concern is the madness of the Left in both the USA and Australia.

you don’t think our incompetent government managing a nuclear program is an issue?

 

[Pessimistic]

What happens if China's military is as reliable as the rest of the stuff they manufacture and their capabilities are part of the regime's propaganda?

i dunno, I’m typing this on a bit of tech built in China that the current australia can only dream of producing.

I reckon the Australian govts ambitions and capabilities have the biggest air gap here

 

[Pessimistic]

I guess Trump was the first to suggest NATO was a bad deal for the US. If we want US support in our region, then we need to invest in defence.

‘what is the rationale for China attacking the country which supplies most of its raw materials? AFAIK only the US destroys its own overseas installations (angola)

all I hear is China wants to build supply lines not destroy them

 

[Ned_Flanders]

What am I missing in this. We dump the French subs because 2035 is too far away for our current war with china, and choose an option that delivers in 2040

 

[Baltimore Jack]

What am I missing in this. We dump the French subs because 2035 is too far away for our current war with china, and choose an option that delivers in 2040

And we dumped a French Sub, which was Nuc powered but had to be re-designed for us to be Diesel powered, to get a US Sub that is Nuc powered and will take longer to be delivered

I smell Quarantine and Vaccine all over again

 

[Mofra]

wouldn't it be far cheaper to retain our independent refining capability etc?

That's the irony - governments scream 'free market' then spend tens of billions to protect the 'free market'

 

[Mofra]

And we dumped a French Sub, which was Nuc powered but had to be re-designed for us to be Diesel powered, to get a US Sub that is Nuc powered and will take longer to be delivered

I smell Quarantine and Vaccine all over again

The major issue was the power unit on the French subs only had a 10 year life, the US boats have an infinite lifespan (at least, as long as the operational life of the sub).

It's a terrible waste of cash to get to this point though - $4.5bn on sunk costs, likely $1.5bn to exit the contract, support for SA workers laid off, etc.

 

[Mofra]

China Is About to Test Its Thorium-Fueled Nuclear Reactor

China will start tests on its first molten-salt nuclear reactor! Based on thorium, the new technology could serve as a major milestone for the world.

interestingengineering.com

An experimental nuclear reactor in China is making waves.

Fuelled with thorium, the China-based nuclear reactor is about to start tests.
While this radioactive element has seen reactor trials before, many scientists and industry experts agree that this could make China the first country to come within leaping distance of developing the technology to a commercial scale, according to a report from the journal Nature.

Thorium reactors are something I (and others) have been discussing for years on these boards.
We had an opportunity to be world leaders in this space, that opportunity is now gone. We have abundant thorium resources in Australia too.

 

[kranky al]

LOL'd all you want, it's more than a problem when the unfit for office President of the USA can't remember our PMs name and refers to him as “that fella down under… Never in my lifetime has America been so weak and we foolishly think they have our back?

As opposed to trump who just pulled out on his allies unilaterally and made them feel completely betrayed.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Add another one to the list. NZ and all the Pacific Islands hate us, China obviously, Russia and of course France and the rest of the EU no doubt. Last nights announcement pretty much indicates (by their exclusion) that India have told us to GAGF.

We are running out of countries for Morrison to piss off.

Geezus man I know scomo is an incompetent bafoon, but he's only prime minister for a period of time and doesn't hold complete sway in the feelings of other nation states attitudes toward Australia in his period of pm.

The picture is nothing like how you make it. Get a grip.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Make Trade not War