Discussion Thoughts on full back

[saintsrfreak]

I spoke to an Essendon player last night (over several drinks). He said that Goddard is not fitting in at all. "Too arrogant for his own good" was the comment. Followed by "no wonder St Kilda let him go...now we have to put up with him telling us all how to play the game". As you might have guessed - I have moderated the language somewhat.

Sounds like the player might be somewhat immature, dunno how Goddard's supposed to be a leader if he doesn't say what to do.

 

[Defacto]

Sounds like the player might be somewhat immature, dunno how Goddard's supposed to be a leader if he doesn't say what to do.

theres more to leadership than being a dictator. its all in the delivery and tact. lead by example as well. so many facets to it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There is certainly likely to be serious competition for a finals spot next year, that's for sure. The 3 teams that finished just below us (Carlton, Essendon and Richmond) will be expecting pretty much nothing less than to play finals next year, as will all the teams that were in the top 8 this year. There is going to be mighty competition for spots.

As for as I'm concerned, we've just got to make sure we're up there and that we don't relinquish our spot. The rest can then sort themselves out.

Anyone had a good look at the early part of the draw. Because of the way its been worked out this year it could be very difficult for the likes of Collingwood , and to a lesser extent Adelaide and Geelong.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Is it Geelong that have a bunch of 6-day breaks to start their year? They do have a heap of games at Skilled Stadium to finish off the year though, I think, including against us. We mightn't even remember where that place is, let alone how to play there! Haven't looked that closely at Adelaide or Collingwood's draws.

Edit: Just had a look at Geelong's first 9 weeks and they do have a seriously testing start to the year! Their first 4 rounds are very challenging (Haw, Nth, Carl, Sydney in Sydney) and there are only 6 days between all of those games. They then have the Wb in R5, before 3 more testing games after that (Rich, Ess, Coll).

Adelaide apparently have one of the easiest draws of anyone though and their start to the year looks reasonable to me (Essendon in Adelaide, Bris at the Gabba, Port, WB in Adelaide, Carlton away, Hawthorn in Adelaide and then GWS). They would be expecting to win 4 of those 7 at least.

Collingwood on the other hand do have a hell of a testing draw to start the year! They don't have what you would call a "gimme game" until they play Melbourne in R11, although they probably ought to win their next couple after that easily as well. 11 of their first 12 games are in Melbourne though, of course.

As per any year though, if we're going to be relying on other teams losing we're in trouble. We've just got to take care of our business and let the others finish where they finish.

 

[tbarker]

Sounds like the player might be somewhat immature, dunno how Goddard's supposed to be a leader if he doesn't say what to do.

He meant that Goddard was a no-it-all. Not a motivator - a dictator. A tool basically.

 

[tbarker]

He meant that Goddard was a know-it-all. Not a motivator - a dictator. A tool basically.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Maybe we sent him over there to troll Essendon? Payback for Andrew Lovett!?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Would be kind of funny and ironic if he turned out to be a destablising influence and the whole team imploded because of him.

Anyone think of any disgruntled Essendon players we might want to poach next year.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Jake Carlisle, appropriate to this thread even!

 

[saintsrfreak]

Would be kind of funny and ironic if he turned out to be a destablising influence and the whole team imploded because of him.

Anyone think of any disgruntled Essendon players we might want to poach next year.

The Weapon 2.0

 

[hayes]

Jake Carlisle, appropriate to this thread even!

Yep, at this point I'm not interested in any free agents that aren't key backs. I think we're pretty much covered in most areas for now.

 

[aussierulesrules]

We need someone "elite" or close to it for the midfield going forward, though, I reckon. If there is another Josh Caddy or Travis Boak up for grabs next year we'll be all over them like a rash, I expect, especially if they are available through FA.

If we don't lose anyone that we don't really want to lose to free agency ourselves, then we'll probably be going hard at just about anyone that's any good (unless they play forward, as we look loaded there), through FA, as we'll likely have so much cash to splash around.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yep, at this point I'm not interested in any free agents that aren't key backs. I think we're pretty much covered in most areas for now.

Stuff free agency, they get compo for that. Get someone to do a "Luke Ball"

Wouldn't mind Stanton, I think he's OK and he must get sick of his own supporters bagging him.

 

[Winners Only]

If we want to be competitive the full back has to be Rhys Stanley for 2013 !

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If we want to be competitive the full back has to be Rhys Stanley for 2013 !

Yeah he has so much experience in defence we just know he can stop the full forwards that the best most experienced full backs struggle against. He'll be great because we want him to be.

 

[Winners Only]

Yeah he has so much experience in defence we just know he can stop the full forwards that the best most experienced full backs struggle against. He'll be great because we want him to be.

With plenty of taller options up forward Lee, Wilkes, Hickey, Roo, Kosi we have that area well covered. Stanley doesn't have to play solely at full back but we need him against the taller forwards and Simpkin can continue to develop playing on other types.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With plenty of taller options up forward Lee, Wilkes, Hickey, Roo, Kosi we have that area well covered. Stanley doesn't have to play solely at full back but we need him against the taller forwards and Simpkin can continue to develop playing on other types.

Wilkes and Lee have more experience playing in defense than Stanley.
For all I know Hickey and Kosi have more experience in defense than Stanley. ( Pretty sure Riewoldt has around the same ).
Hickey is not necessarily a better forward option than Stanley, he was picked up as a promising "future" ruck option who is capable of playing now if necessary. Looking at his stats its pretty clear that most games he impacted on he was playing as a ruck. Not putting him down, he's still a fantastic prospect but he's still really young.

So we desperately need Stanley to play on the taller spud forwards who monstered us, given that he's unlikely to go up against the likes of Hawkins or Cloke and come out of it looking good.
So who are these tall forwards that we've struggled with that Stanley will be able to fix up?

I dont mind him doing some training in defense but the proof is in the pudding. I still remember Sam Gilbert our next forward.

 

[Q TRAIN]

With plenty of taller options up forward Lee, Wilkes, Hickey, Roo, Kosi we have that area well covered. Stanley doesn't have to play solely at full back but we need him against the taller forwards and Simpkin can continue to develop playing on other types.

At first when a few people were suggesting Stanley play fullback, i was thinking he is way too light framed ( even though he has bulked up a little ).
But then i started thinking of Dustin Fletcher .So who the hell needs muscles to be a good full back.
That blokes a freak and he's skinnier than Stanley.
Maybe Rhys at Full Back might work afterall ??????

 

[aussierulesrules]

Remember how skinny Zac was as well!?

I do prefer the idea of Stanley playing more the Fletcher role of today though, (in the pocket, going 3rd up), rather than the one he was playing at FB. I'm not sure Rhys has the smarts and so on for the key role of FB.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

At first when a few people were suggesting Stanley play fullback, i was thinking he is way too light framed ( even though he has bulked up a little ).
But then i started thinking of Dustin Fletcher .So who the hell needs muscles to be a good full back.
That blokes a freak and he's skinnier than Stanley.
Maybe Rhys at Full Back might work afterall ??????

Yep Fletcher had a light frame AND experience playing in defence.

 

[Falchoon]

Riewoldt for CHB

 

[L_W_P]

I will keep hammering on about how much Lee woyld learn in defence.

He has admitted he didn't work hard enough on his game whole at Adelaide so spending 12 months learning how to lead like Cloke and Shultz, how to body like Buddy and Brown or how to whinge to the umps like JRoo and Hurley...

Someone mentioned in the best 22 thread about both Lee and Stanley playing back and swinging forward at times. I rekon its a great idea. If we could develop 2 genuine swingmen with different attributes, we would be extremely potent going into the future!

 

[Radius]

I think the reality is that we'll have to use Fisher again this year to hold down the fort, even if it means losing his rebound. It's been a long time since he's had to be a lock-down defender, but he was improving a lot towards the end of the season. Sooner we find an actual quality key defender, the better it is for the structure of the whole side.

Lee could gain some experience down back if there's no opportunity up forward, but he'll never be a key defender. Stanley's got the height, and the courage, but he lacks the foresight to play full back.

 

[aussierulesrules]

When watching the replay of our game against Geelong on Foxtel last night, when Hawkins was monstering us, I came to the conclusion that there is probably only one answer to that potential problem next year, given the list we have and the fact we failed to get someone like Mitch Brown.

I don't see Stanley, for instance, being suddenly able to go one on one with the Tom Hawkins or Kurt Tippett's of the AFL, nor Tom Lee, as I've said previously, and I had previously thought that they could be effective in the pocket, Dustin Fletcher-style, going 3rd up to help and they probably would be beneficial to a degree in that role, but I just think that very well drilled forward lines with multiple good targets would be able to get good enough seperation between their targets and would still be able to get the likes of Hawkins or Tippett one out.

So when someone like Hawkins or Tippett or Cox are on a roll and starting to dominate us, which they almost certainly will, I think there is one obvious solution to this. A "+1".

We employed someone loose in defence for much of our time under Lyon and we were one of the hardest teams to score against (possibly of all time) but this year we almost never employed one and look at what happened. We had bags of goals kicked on us on a fairly regular basis and lost lots of close games that we could have otherwise won if we weren't getting dominated in that one area. On the flip side, Freo employed one or even two loose in defence for most of this year and they suddenly became very hard to score against and made the finals and smashed Geelong in the final, just a few weeks after Geelong had blown us away.

It would obviously be likely to cost us some scoring at the other end and it won't make for as attractive a brand of footy, but for those games when someone like Hawkins is dominating us and it is likely to cost us a win, I think we simply will have to put someone loose in the hole in front of him (or next to him) and back ourselves to win the game through grit and determination and back our forward line to be able to score in spite of most likely having to contend with someone loose in front of them as well. We'll just have to move the ball with patience going forward and not just blaze away without thought to where the other team have someone loose.

In all the other games we can go one on one, as we did this year, but if someone gets a hold of us at FF and looks like taking the game away from us, I think we'll simply have to put someone loose in the area if we want to win, possibly someone tall and athletic like Stanley, who would have the height, reach and leap to be a major pain in the ass for the other team. Or else maybe Simpkin, who seems to read the play well, has all the courage needed to put himself in the hole and who marks strongly overhead.

Otherwise, I just don't see how we won't get monstered in that area again on a regular basis next year, costing us wins. As long as it doesn't happen every week, I'd rather they become slightly more ugly games to watch rather than them become ugly for us to look at on the scoreboard.

 

[Defacto]

When watching the replay of our game against Geelong on Foxtel last night, when Hawkins was monstering us, I came to the conclusion that there is probably only one answer to that potential problem next year, given the list we have and the fact we failed to get someone like Mitch Brown.

I don't see Stanley, for instance, being suddenly able to go one on one with the Tom Hawkins or Kurt Tippett's of the AFL, nor Tom Lee, as I've said previously, and I had previously thought that they could be effective in the pocket, Dustin Fletcher-style, going 3rd up to help and they probably would be beneficial to a degree in that role, but I just think that very well drilled forward lines with multiple good targets would be able to get good enough seperation between their targets and would still be able to get the likes of Hawkins or Tippett one out.

So when someone like Hawkins or Tippett or Cox are on a roll and starting to dominate us, which they almost certainly will, I think there is one obvious solution to this. A "+1".

We employed someone loose in defence for much of our time under Lyon and we were one of the hardest teams to score against (possibly of all time) but this year we almost never employed one and look at what happened. We had bags of goals kicked on us on a fairly regular basis and lost lots of close games that we could have otherwise won if we weren't getting dominated in that one area. On the flip side, Freo employed one or even two loose in defence for most of this year and they suddenly became very hard to score against and made the finals and smashed Geelong in the final, just a few weeks after Geelong had blown us away.

It would obviously be likely to cost us some scoring at the other end and it won't make for as attractive a brand of footy, but for those games when someone like Hawkins is dominating us and it is likely to cost us a win, I think we simply will have to put someone loose in the hole in front of him (or next to him) and back ourselves to win the game through grit and determination and back our forward line to be able to score in spite of most likely having to contend with someone loose in front of them as well. We'll just have to move the ball with patience going forward and not just blaze away without thought to where the other team have someone loose.

In all the other games we can go one on one, as we did this year, but if someone gets a hold of us at FF and looks like taking the game away from us, I think we'll simply have to put someone loose in the area if we want to win, possibly someone tall and athletic like Stanley, who would have the height, reach and leap to be a major pain in the arse for the other team. Or else maybe Simpkin, who seems to read the play well, has all the courage needed to put himself in the hole and who marks strongly overhead.

Otherwise, I just don't see how we won't get monstered in that area again on a regular basis next year, costing us wins. As long as it doesn't happen every week, I'd rather they become slightly more ugly games to watch rather than them become ugly for us to look at on the scoreboard.

i think you're right. the answer will be going back to whats tried and true with the experienced defenders. i like the idea of making fish accountable as a CHB and not as the loose defender. maybe blake can take the resting ruck?

having said that i think the future is 1 on 1 defenders. those who are directly accountable for their opponent, none of this zoning spare man shite. when we get our young defenders moving and we start to groom the next back 6 then i think we'll have to cop the monsterings on the chin sometimes