Discussion Thoughts on full back

[SaintsSeptember]

Who should they have kept first off...

As for who else, you're telling me no genuine option has presented itself in two years?

I find that hard to believe.

They need to quit using it as an excuse through the year as well.

Bullshit.
If someone wants to leave they can.
Happens in every business.
Option? You tell me who dont just say there must be one.
Show me where they used it as an excuse through the year.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Who should they have kept first off...

As for who else, you're telling me no genuine option has presented itself in two years?

I find that hard to believe.

They need to quit using it as an excuse through the year as well.

I think in hindsight you're seeing Dawson as much better than he actually was. Blake is just as good.

 

[mysainters]

Bullshit.
If someone wants to leave they can.
Happens in every business.
Option? You tell me who dont just say there must be one.
Show me where they used it as an excuse through the year.

Zac wanted more cash, we weren't prepared to give it.

Scott actually mentioned it a lot, this is just what I've found not looking that hard....

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/sc...-over-phone-rage/story-fndv7pj3-1226452140427

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/live-hq-cats-v-saints/story-fnelctok-1226452863217

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/live-hq-cats-v-saints/story-fnelctok-1226452863217

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...-expose-st-kilda/story-e6freck3-1226416054899

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=139969

I'll come back to you with some names later

 

[mysainters]

I think in hindsight you're seeing Dawson as much better than he actually was. Blake is just as good.

Not really.

It's about structure isn't it...

People keep telling me they don't grow on trees, so it's worth trying to hang onto one if you've got it.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Not really.

It's about structure isn't it...

People keep telling me they don't grow on trees, so it's worth trying to hang onto one if you've got it.

How are we any worse off with having Blake in the spot Zac used to be in?
Blake got smashed by a few monster forwards this year, the exact same would've happened to Zac in that situation.
The reasons we're leaking more points than previous years are 1. Our midfield isn't performing to the same level, and 2. Watters has them playing a different game style which isn't as focused on defence.

 

[SaintLex]

Agree with above. It's my belief that Lyon's game style made Zac's job a heck of a lot easier. Could he have performed at the same level under Watters? In my opinion, he wouldn't have been that much better than Blakey and probably half as good as Fisher in that role.

The idea of making do with what we've got is growing on me a little bit. Fix up the game plan and half the battle is already won.... Or maybe i'm being deliriously biased

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Zac wanted more cash, we weren't prepared to give it.

Scott actually mentioned it a lot, this is just what I've found not looking that hard....

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/sc...-over-phone-rage/story-fndv7pj3-1226452140427

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/live-hq-cats-v-saints/story-fnelctok-1226452863217

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/live-hq-cats-v-saints/story-fnelctok-1226452863217

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...-expose-st-kilda/story-e6freck3-1226416054899

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=139969

I'll come back to you with some names later

So you think the Saint are culpable because they didn't throw money at a very average player like Dawson. There has to be a limit.
If Freo are stupid enought to pay him the big bucks , let them, he is winning plenty of non-fans there.

 

[SamFisher25]

"structure" is changing though.

we've seen sydney win a flag with two poles down back; grundy and richards.

now what is our structure? clearly it doesn't involve dawson or blake as a ruckman.

so what is it. we have sweepers in gwilt and geary who do all the dirty work. fisher is a CHB and blake, well. we dont have a recognised FB but do we need one, really? we now have two quality rucks and the ruck rule means that there is reduced holding and increased emphasis of mobility meaning that your ruck needs to be mobile, like maric.

so max hudghton came back from the cold and doesn't have a fullback. does max hudghton really have a system? does aaron hamill have a system? does troy schwarze have a system? do they have a combined system?

what's the system? forget structure. what is the system?

 

[Squizz]

SainterK

March : http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...-star-zac-dawson/story-e6frexx0-1226021367053
St Kilda is about to reward troublesome full-back Zac Dawson with a two-year contract extension in a massive show of faith. Dawson returned to the club after a six-week stint on the sidelines for a New Zealand incident. The club has made initial contact with Dawson's management over the two-year extension, which would see him secured until the end of 2013. But before pen is put to paper the club wants to assess Dawson's attitude to ensure he has come back a changed person. It will wait until Dawson has proved that emphatically before rewarding him with the two-season extension.

June 24 : http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...walls-on-twitter/story-e6freck3-1226081277978
Zac Dawson has sparked a Twitter storm by saying he is happy Robert Walls will be out of a job with Channel 10. Dawson last night expressed his joy at the news, in particular its impact on Walls, a regular critic of the St Kilda backline. "Channel ten not showing the footy next year!..Finally robert "sourpuss" walls is out of a job.Thank God!..karma is a b*tch buddy,"

July 8 : http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dawson-saints-put-contract-talks-on-hold-20110707-1h4s1.html

Contract negotiations between St Kilda and full-back Zac Dawson have been put on hold until the end of the season. Dawson ... could command about $300,000 a season. That would be a strong rise on his current one-year contract.​

July 18 : http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/5315/newsid/118852/default.aspx
The St Kilda Football Club is pleased to announce the appointment of Mr Chris Pelchen to the position of Head of Football.

 

[Tongue In Cheek]

Enter Lyon. I think he was a terriffic coach, and if the club had, had the structure it has now when he came in we'd all be singing a different song.
Instead ,a guy who was having his first effort at AFL coaching was expected to do just about everything.
I think Lyon concentrated on his core work, and paid lip service to the other stuff. Enter Pelchen.

Was he? RB had tried to introduce an operations manager and it was GT's veto of the move that eventually led to his sacking. Meanwhile, unlike either of those two RL had been part of a successful AFL club and seen how it worked from the inside - which included a football department manager (Andrew Ireland). No doubt he wanted to concentrate on his core work. Does that mean he neglected other areas?

And yet, it took until 2011 for the Saints to create a club structure that the Swans had had in place more than 5 years prior.

 

[Squizz]

Thomas and Lyon had the same flaw. Both control freaks.

Thomas wanted to do keep doing player contracts, which was ridiculous when the club wanted to separate the task from coaching. The fact that he'd borrowed a shitload of money from the President (and didn't want to pay it back when they had a bust up) was a terrible situation too.

And I'm not sure giving Lyon a bigger budget would have led to anything other than a bigger group of yes men, and more analysis on other teams (rather than development of our list).

 

[Tongue In Cheek]

It's about structure isn't it...

People keep telling me they don't grow on trees, so it's worth trying to hang onto one if you've got it.

Depends. If Watters values player attributes differently to Lyon, a player will be worth more to one than the other.

GT didn't want to pay a king's ransom for an ordinary ruckman. Thankfully these days we have a recruiting department as opposed to a couple of part-timers.

 

[ike2112]

Thomas didn't suck, he actually did a pretty good job as coach, he took us to two prelims and another final series playing some fantastic attacking football that was great to watch and he helped improve our culture. Our main downfall under him was injuries and lack of decent ruckmen which he was partly responsible for but he did more right than wrong.

Thomas gets judged more harshly than Lyon in hindsight but if I had the choice of reappointing one of them I would choose Thomas as at least he has St Kilda's best interests at heart and coaches football that is good to watch, Lyon was only interested about himself and getting wins by any means necessary no matter how boring it was to watch.

I actually thought a decent amount of the success of Lyon was set up by Thomas. Don't know that GT would have pushed on to the GF though.

 

[ike2112]

Fisher for full back, Gwilt/Simpkin/Blake (and if you must, Lee and Stanley) for CHB and/or third tall with Geary doing a shut down role on a small forward and Dempster + Gilbo small defenders as well as offering the rebound that we have lost by moving Fisher to full back

It's not an ideal situation, but should work out alright (...hopefully )
Simpkin will improve with experience, Blake should be better as he will be able to focus all his efforts on defending rather than spending stints in the ruck, Gwilt should be close to his good form before the knee reco and Gilbert was starting to find better form before the season was out. Dempster and Geary are always reliable and Fisher has the tools to do a lockdown job on a key forward (just look at his game on Jono Brown this year)

I also won't be surprised if Wilkes spends the pre-season training with the defenders (and Max Miyagi) to assume the FB role... and that is an idea that I don't really hate..

(It is obvious that defense is our biggest weakness and that it will get exploited at every opportunity next year by coaches who know what they're doing)

For me I don't feel it's the starting 6 guys at the back that is the problem. It's that the drop-off is massive when one of them gets hurt; and on average you have to expect to play maybe 10 or so games with someone missing. You can't go 10 games of AFL with a tall forward running around without a suitable defender on him.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Apparently, the Hamburgler reckons that we're going to pull a rabbit out of our hat in December regarding a key back. #grainofsaltbut​

 

[Squizz]

We'd better get on it - our fullback has shrunk!!!

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Now that's a solid reason why looking at any photo to judge height is useless.

Tommy S is a solid 8cm's taller than Armo and 2-3 feet taller than Ledger IIRC.

 

[mysainters]

We'd better get on it - our fullback has shrunk!!!

The height is all in his hair

 

[saintsrfreak]

The height is all in his hair

*forehead

 

[WesternSaint84]

Just seen on age site that Dylan Robertson has been signed as a free agent so that's the full back sorted for now

 

[saintsrfreak]

Just seen on age site that Dylan Robertson has been signed as a free agent so that's the full back sorted for now

wut

 

[WesternSaint84]

ST KILDA has made former Fremantle defender Dylan Roberton the AFL's latest delisted free agent signing, Robertson having boarded a plane to join the Saints at their altitude camp in Colorado.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ns-st-kilda-20121129-2ahs7.html#ixzz2DaAn5ODw

 

[pebblesofsand]

ST KILDA has made former Fremantle defender Dylan Roberton the AFL's latest delisted free agent signing, Robertson having boarded a plane to join the Saints at their altitude camp in Colorado.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ns-st-kilda-20121129-2ahs7.html#ixzz2DaAn5ODw

God look at the height of that ball drop. Hope he won't be kicking in from full back

 

[mysainters]

Pelchen clearly rates a FB about as high as GT does ruckman...

 

[WesternSaint84]

Probably holding off for Mitch brown