Discussion Thoughts on full back

[aussierulesrules]

It seems pretty clear that we didn't rate any of the "KPD's" super high in this draft, except perhaps for Corr, who I heard a couple of weeks ago we wanted.

I have a feeling we were hoping that one of them would slide to pick 40, but even Close was gone by then, which was a bit of a surprise.

Coming to a cinema near you next October: Get Mitch Brown Pt 2.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

It seems pretty clear that we didn't rate any of the "KPD's" super high in this draft, except perhaps for Corr, who I heard a couple of weeks ago we wanted.

I have a feeling we were hoping that one of them would slide to pick 40, but even Close was gone by then, which was a bit of a surprise.

Coming to a cinema near you next October: Get Mitch Brown Pt 2.

Yep I was just saying this to the old man. If WCE don't play him he will walk to us. WCE owe us anyway after we did the right thing and made a deal for Cripps. Free Agency should work in our favour next year.

 

[saintwazza]

I'm pretty sure Lee will play FB next year as he played in defence for Claremont in 2011. I think he would be a better choice over Stanley & Wilkes.

 

[mysainters]

Truly staggered with the clubs willingness to enter a second season without a designated fullback.

None of which will be any of the new players fault of course, but seriously....

What am I missing?

 

[saintsrfreak]

I'm pretty sure Lee will play FB next year as he played in defence for Claremont in 2011. I think he would be a better choice over Stanley & Wilkes.

I don't think we recruited Lee to play as a defender, there would be better state league defenders than him. We recruited him because of his great year as a forward.

 

[stkildathunda]

Welcome to the club boys.

Truly staggered with the clubs willingness to enter a second season without a designated fullback.

None of which will be any of the new players fault of course, but seriously....

What am I missing?

There's no decent key backman out there that are available!!

 

[mysainters]

There's no decent key backman out there that are available!!

Which makes it all the more staggering we let our last one walk.

So seriously, in two entire years, no option has presented itself?

I find that staggering, and reckon we could look reflectively on last years and soon enough this years draft, and there will have been KPD's floating around.

 

[Defacto]

Which makes it all the more staggering we let our last one walk.

So seriously, in two entire years, no option has presented itself?

I find that staggering, and reckon we could look reflectively on last years and soon enough this years draft, and there will have been KPD's floating around.

KPD isnt the big issue for me. its the midfield and the run and spread/pressure/clearances/contested possession. then its our conversion on our opportunities. then its our lapses in games. after that its the KPD.

we have temp options we can use. wonder if the frawley rumor starts to grow some legs towards the end of next season. if we create a good culture and environment, looking like challenging again, my bet is frawley will jump.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Hmm, with the pace we've got up forward, we won't need a full back. We'll just kick more goals than the opposition. Simple

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

One thing i completely love is we have blosted our Ruck stocks perfectly. McEvoy, Hickey, Stanley, Pierce, Lever Can play there when needed.
Lever is more of a Defender, Does anyone think we should try Pierce as a Defender/Ruckman? Or just keep him as a Ruckman? I think it'd be worth trying to develop Pierce as a Defender/Ruckman he could develop nicely as a KPD.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Hmm, with the pace we've got up forward, we won't need a full back. We'll just kick more goals than the opposition. Simple

It worked for Grant Thomas....

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Not sure why people are so worried on our backline so much. Yes we got hurt by a few big forwards during the year but most of them hurt us when we didn't have Sam Fisher. When we had Sam Fisher he killed the Big guys. Kurt Tippett an example we played Blake on him kicked about 5? Then moved Fisher on to him and kicked 1. Then Cloke only kicked 1 i think on Fish, Hawkins kicked 5 of his 6 on Gwilt and only kicked 1 on Fish. I think Fisher will more then likely be our #1 KPD. With Dempster & Gwilt playing Fisher Role while Simpkin & Blake take the 2nd & 3rd tall forwards. I personally would rather have Blake playing on the Other KPF before Gwilt i reckon put Gwilt back into a role taking the smaller guys.

 

[Plugger35]

It worked for Grant Thomas....

We still had Max Hudghton under Thomas and Luke Penny briefly, what a shame his career was cut short with injury, would have been a star for us.

We may not have recruited a specialist fullback but we have recruited quite a few key position players so maybe we can convert one into a fullback over the off season.

 

[saintsrfreak]

We still had Max Hudghton under Thomas and Luke Penny briefly, what a shame his career was cut short with injury, would have been a star for us.

We may not have recruited a specialist fullback but we have recruited quite a few key position players so maybe we can convert one into a fullback over the off season.

Was tongue in cheek mate, Grant Thomas sucked

 

[Plugger35]

Was tongue in cheek mate, Grant Thomas sucked

Thomas didn't suck, he actually did a pretty good job as coach, he took us to two prelims and another final series playing some fantastic attacking football that was great to watch and he helped improve our culture. Our main downfall under him was injuries and lack of decent ruckmen which he was partly responsible for but he did more right than wrong.

Thomas gets judged more harshly than Lyon in hindsight but if I had the choice of reappointing one of them I would choose Thomas as at least he has St Kilda's best interests at heart and coaches football that is good to watch, Lyon was only interested about himself and getting wins by any means necessary no matter how boring it was to watch.

The more I hear about our new draftees the more I like them. Quite a few independent judges seem to think we've done pretty well. Pelchen and our recruiting staff did a pretty good job last year so you've got to have faith in them.

 

[aussierulesrules]

It's interesting that the Pelican said we went "best available" at our first two picks and then drafted for needs after that, yet didn't get any "KPD's":


As most have noted, our forward line is looking completely stacked, going forward, with options coming out our ears, but on reflection I don't necessarily mind that, because usually if someone has the talent to play up forward, they are likely to be able to play in other areas of the ground as well, especially down back.

In the past we had Sam Fisher come to us as a "forward", I believe, Jimmy Gwilt was initially played up forward as well, Shane Wakelin started out up forward, but then played by far his best footy at FB (for us and Collingwood), Fraser Gehrig played most of his footy up forward, but when he played a year down back for us he was phenomenal and came 3rd in the B&F (his highest finish for us) and then most recently Arryn Siposs played by far his two best games for us off half back, after coming to us off a junior career up forward.

So I don't mind us drafting "best available" and those with the most talent, because chances are they will be good enough to adapt to other roles, if the one they usually play has already been filled. Even Trent Dennis-Lane, who usually plays in a forward pocket, may be able to play in a back pocket going forward, for instance, if there is no room for him forward, with Milne, Schneider, Saad, Milera or Minchington possibly playing there already.

 

[SamFisher25]

Not sure why people are so worried on our backline so much. Yes we got hurt by a few big forwards during the year but most of them hurt us when we didn't have Sam Fisher. When we had Sam Fisher he killed the Big guys. Kurt Tippett an example we played Blake on him kicked about 5? Then moved Fisher on to him and kicked 1. Then Cloke only kicked 1 i think on Fish, Hawkins kicked 5 of his 6 on Gwilt and only kicked 1 on Fish. I think Fisher will more then likely be our #1 KPD. With Dempster & Gwilt playing Fisher Role while Simpkin & Blake take the 2nd & 3rd tall forwards. I personally would rather have Blake playing on the Other KPF before Gwilt i reckon put Gwilt back into a role taking the smaller guys.

Jack kicked five on Jimmy and another three on Chips for a total of eight (8) v Richmond.
It's a fact of life that Riewoldt got away from us that day because we started Gwilt on him.
Clury wouldn't have been one to come in and murder Riewoldt. It just doesn't work that way unfortunately.

 

[VDS66]

Truly staggered with the clubs willingness to enter a second season without a designated fullback.

None of which will be any of the new players fault of course, but seriously....

What am I missing?

1- Dawson was always going to walk because of Lyon.

2- Who exactly was in the draft that would be a starting 22 full back next year?

 

[VDS66]

Thomas gets judged more harshly than Lyon in hindsight but if I had the choice of reappointing one of them I would choose Thomas as at least he has St Kilda's best interests at heart and coaches football that is good to watch, Lyon was only interested about himself and getting wins by any means necessary no matter how boring it was to watch.

Surely you are taking the piss with these comments?

GT was all about GT in the end. So Lyon took an offer to good to refuse. Big deal.

Reality is this:

Lyon was head hunted because he is one of the best AFL coaches going around. GT was not.

Lyon coached us to 2 (3) GF's where we almost grabbed 2 flags. GT did not.

Lyon understands the importance of having the best staff (fitness) around you. GT says they are over rated.

Given the choice of playing exciting football and never winning a flag v boring football that can win you a flag, I know which one I'd take.

 

[SaintLex]

Fisher for full back, Gwilt/Simpkin/Blake (and if you must, Lee and Stanley) for CHB and/or third tall with Geary doing a shut down role on a small forward and Dempster + Gilbo small defenders as well as offering the rebound that we have lost by moving Fisher to full back

It's not an ideal situation, but should work out alright (...hopefully )
Simpkin will improve with experience, Blake should be better as he will be able to focus all his efforts on defending rather than spending stints in the ruck, Gwilt should be close to his good form before the knee reco and Gilbert was starting to find better form before the season was out. Dempster and Geary are always reliable and Fisher has the tools to do a lockdown job on a key forward (just look at his game on Jono Brown this year)

I also won't be surprised if Wilkes spends the pre-season training with the defenders (and Max Miyagi) to assume the FB role... and that is an idea that I don't really hate..

(It is obvious that defense is our biggest weakness and that it will get exploited at every opportunity next year by coaches who know what they're doing)

 

[tbarker]

Fisher for full back, Gwilt/Simpkin/Blake (and if you must, Lee and Stanley) for CHB and/or third tall with Geary doing a shut down role on a small forward and Dempster + Gilbo small defenders as well as offering the rebound that we have lost by moving Fisher to full back

It's not an ideal situation, but should work out alright (...hopefully )
Simpkin will improve with experience, Blake should be better as he will be able to focus all his efforts on defending rather than spending stints in the ruck, Gwilt should be close to his good form before the knee reco and Gilbert was starting to find better form before the season was out. Dempster and Geary are always reliable and Fisher has the tools to do a lockdown job on a key forward (just look at his game on Jono Brown this year)

I also won't be surprised if Wilkes spends the pre-season training with the defenders (and Max Miyagi) to assume the FB role... and that is an idea that I don't really hate..

(It is obvious that defense is our biggest weakness and that it will get exploited at every opportunity next year by coaches who know what they're doing)

Blake played 1 good game at full back. he was otherwise embarrassed. I can't understand why they kept him on the list as "back-up". Surely it was worth risking a pick on a VFL/WAFL level bloke who might make it. At least as a rookie then look to promote him if he does well???

 

[stkildathunda]

I think Blake was kept on list so he can play coaching role with kids down in VFL and play when needed in AFL. Need to have mature bodies down there otherwise kids will get smashed week in week out (physically smashed)

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Jack kicked five on Jimmy and another three on Chips for a total of eight (8) v Richmond.
It's a fact of life that Riewoldt got away from us that day because we started Gwilt on him.
Clury wouldn't have been one to come in and murder Riewoldt. It just doesn't work that way unfortunately.

Considering Sam Fisher didn't even play in that game.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Jack kicked five on Jimmy and another three on Chips for a total of eight (8) v Richmond.
It's a fact of life that Riewoldt got away from us that day because we started Gwilt on him.
Clury wouldn't have been one to come in and murder Riewoldt. It just doesn't work that way unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure Sean Dempster was the one who started on Jack that night (he was the first one I saw on him, early in that first quarter, following on from his game on Franklin, a few weeks prior) and then it was over to Tom Simpkin, who Jack resoundingly beat a few times in that first quarter. Gwilt may have been moved on to him then, but I certainly don't remember him playing on Jack in that first quarter and Blake also had one or two goals at least kicked on him that night by Jack (I think at least one of Riewoldt's "Joe the Goose" goals in the last were when he was on Blake and he just sat back waiting for the easy goal, instead of following Blake up the field in the press).

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

I'm pretty sure Sean Dempster was the one who started on Jack that night (he was the first one I saw on him, early in that first quarter, following on from his game on Franklin, a few weeks prior) and then it was over to Tom Simpkin, who Jack resoundingly beat a few times in that first quarter. Gwilt may have been moved on to him then, but I certainly don't remember him playing on Jack in that first quarter and Blake also had one or two goals at least kicked on him that night by Jack.

Gwilt started on him. Then Simpkin had a go then he had a fair few goals once we put Blake on him he hardly kicked a goal i can still remember it. But we had to use Blake in the Ruck so again had to take him off Jack even though he shut him down.