Thoughts On The St Kilda Game

[conVINCEd]

Great game by the boys.

I didn't think we played at our absolute best, although I reckon the Saints' lack of intensity made it look perhaps a little easy for us.

Scott Stevens played a great game, and you can just see him gaining in confidence and footballing maturity, a lot like Bock last year. Craigy is a genius.

He had great support from Massie, Mattner and Bassett tonight, but he won't always get that.

St. Kilda were woeful in using the spare man who had gone to help out Stevens with Riewoldt. They simply refused to use their spare player, instead choosing to kick it to Riewold who had three on him.

Great time to have a break, as we are in good form and great spirits, and allows some of our boys to have a rest they badly need.

Will be a great second half to the year - we have so many home matches, but two of our away games will be absolute beauties. The Swans at the SCG and the Eagles at Subi.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Just on my debate last week with DT over the Reilly v Del Santo question....who do you prefer:

1. A player who lays 12 tackles and gets his own ball as an inside midfielder - with great skills

OR

2. A receiver that has exquisite skills but is heavily one-sided

Just wondering ...BTW how old is Reilly now?....22 or 23?....still not that old and about where the normal maturation of an AFL player kicks in

 

[birdmanptr]

Just on my debate last week with DT over the Reilly v Del Santo question....who do you prefer:

1. A player who lays 12 tackles and gets his own ball as an inside midfielder - with great skills

OR

2. A receiver that has exquisite skills but is heavily one-sided

Just wondering ...BTW how old is Reilly now?....22 or 23?....still not that old and about where the normal maturation of an AFL player kicks in

One is a promising footballer playing in a good side the other plays for the saints

 

[Leaping Lindner]

I don't know why everyone is so wrapped in Scott Stevens' game. After all Riewoldt held him to one goal.

 

[crowsarethebest]

Of course I would take Dal Santo ahead or Reilly. One plays in a less sucessful team while the other is in a more sucessful team. Reilly has just started to realise his full potential while Dal Santo has already fulfilled it. Reilly probably still has more upside so he COULD be better than Dal Santo, but at the moment Dal Santo>Reilly.

 

[Wash]

Does anyone else get the feeling watching the Saints that it was a case of our guys, playing as a team, vs 18 very talented individuals? I mean, look at Fraser Gerhig, he was totally off playing his own game, and yet he could be so devastating if his power and talent was harnessed to an actual game plan.

For large parts of the game, I was feeling that the Saints were at least as talented and skillful as our guys, if not more so, but they were all going off in their own directions.

 

[kirky]

What I was disappointed with, was that we allowed the Saints to kick 3 goals in about 5 mins late in the last quarter - not bloody good enough!

I know that big wins can hide a multitude of sins however WW lets not be harsh on the boys. This is a side that after 12 games still has a % of over 160 which if anyone can check is probably a record for this stage of the season. 1) Our defence has conceded 790 points or 65.8 points per game and if they keep that up will be setting another record, 2) they have kept sides to under 100 points for some now 20 games (nearly a whole season!), 3) our two losses were by 2 and 3 points and we had chances to win both games and 4) have won 6 of 7 games on the road (and mostly comprehensive wins at that).

Hopefully the boys can keep going and we may be looking at something very special.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Does anyone else get the feeling watching the Saints that it was a case of our guys, playing as a team, vs 18 very talented individuals? I mean, look at Fraser Gerhig, he was totally off playing his own game, and yet he could be so devastating if his power and talent was harnessed to an actual game plan.

For large parts of the game, I was feeling that the Saints were at least as talented and skillful as our guys, if not more so, but they were all going off in their own directions.

Yes you do get the feeling the Saints still culturally anyway believe in the "Star" system.

The coaches won't admit it, but the fans, staff and gameplan says otherwise

 

[WaynesWorld19]

What I was disappointed with, was that we allowed the Saints to kick 3 goals in about 5 mins late in the last quarter - not bloody good enough!

I know that big wins can hide a multitude of sins however WW lets not be harsh on the boys. This is a side that after 12 games still has a % of over 160 which if anyone can check is probably a record for this stage of the season. 1) Our defence has conceded 790 points or 65.8 points per game and if they keep that up will be setting another record, 2) they have kept sides to under 100 points for some now 20 games (nearly a whole season!), 3) our two losses were by 2 and 3 points and we had chances to win both games and 4) have won 6 of 7 games on the road (and mostly comprehensive wins at that).

Hopefully the boys can keep going and we may be looking at something very special.

I agree that it's hard to be critical when you have had the wins and results we've had this year.

But this is close to the same team that everyone was saying 18months ago needed 5 yeras min to rebuild.....what now ALL these players have suddenly found a miracle drug?

No....they're playing a wonderful team game under a wondeful coach BUT still in need of list/personnel improvement.

The match committe at years end will need to peel away all the glitter and make the hard analysis and call on players....

 

[DaveW]

But this is close to the same team that everyone was saying 18months ago needed 5 yeras min to rebuild.....what now ALL these players have suddenly found a miracle drug?

No wonder drugs. Simply inaccurate analyses.

Think Port 2001.

 

[kirky]

But this is close to the same team that everyone was saying 18months ago needed 5 yeras min to rebuild.....what now ALL these players have suddenly found a miracle drug?

No....they're playing a wonderful team game under a wondeful coach BUT still in need of list/personnel improvement.

Thats what makes good caocahes from poor ones. This is a team game not an individual game - ala paper said in Ayres day that Macca didn't want to play on the halfback line yet that is where he is today.

One thing to remember is that in early 2004 the Crows had lost 4 of their first 11 games by 15 points or less and weren't nearly as bad as everyone thought. Problem was Ayres had lost the players - over the past 6 years our minor round records have been:-

2001 - 12W 10L
2002 - 15W 7L
2003 - 13W 9L
2004 - 8W 14L
2005 - 17W 5L
2006 - 10W 2L

Obviously, 2004 was the one year out but we have been a reasonably consistent minor round performer.

Or course some players won't make the cut but thats no different to any other club. So lets enjoy the moment and wait with great anticipation for the remainder of the year and what it will bring.

 

[bushie]

As an outsider looking in, albeit with a great deal of jealousy and envy, I thought you guys played great footy last night.
Oh to be able to have a win like that with our club and then still be critical of certain players.....I wish!!!
IMO you are the clear favourite for the flag and if you end up playing the weegirls in the GF do us all a favour over here and kick their brains in..
Again congrats on a good win from a very well coached team that sticks to their gameplan and plays for each other.
God that hurt!!!

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Please don't think I'm being too harsh when I say I wasn't super impressed with tonight....yes tradesman like but we made a lot of mistakes that a win of this magnitude tends to hide.

Geez you're hard to please. Six first choice players out and we beat a supposed top 4 side by 10 goals.

Saints....well pretty predictable in the way they play.....kick to Gherig and Reidwoldt and pretty easy tonight for other defenders to zone of their players to help Stevens who was superb!.

Stevens was superb. Amazing turn around in form. I reckon you could just about put Dabrowski in our current structure and he would be an AA nominee.

Del Santo....back on my horse I said he was seen by somecritics as unaccountable and a bit of down hill skier.....Goody took him to the cleaners tonight...6 kicks I believe and no possessions in the last qtr (white flag up)
Reilly...in the heat all night, wonderful and getting better under pressure.

Reilly and Doughty have been sensational so far this year. Reilly with 12 tackles is amazing and it wasn't as though he was just waiting on the outskirts to tackle the ball carrier. He is now putting his body in were angels fear to tread.

Maric: LOVE THIS KID!....was absolutely thrashed for 3 qtrs by Rix who I thought was the best ruckman on the ground tonight. BUT in the last qtr you could see him learning how to combat Rix (with some thorough coaching by Redden in each qtr time break) and came back strongly (great character).
His around the ground efforts and chasing...superb!

Will be an AFC cult figure. Never gives in. Love his enthusiasm.

Vince: Vince >Bode....Vince not many possessions at all but his reading off the packs and hands of player is the best in our team. He's taller and a better mark than Bode and is also quicker. I can tell you he has added weight to his frame since I saw him early this season...going to have a fine build for AFL.

Bode was great, hard at it and couragous as usual. I thought Vince looked pretty ordinary, looked very slow.

Knights: best game for a while from knighter...really has to work on his disposal by foot however. looked and moved very confidently tonight.

I was disappointed with Knights last week, very impressed him last night, 17 posessions in 50 minutes of footy is encouraging. I watched his disposal carefully. I would say at least 85-90% hit the target. He also appears to be working hard on the defensive side of his game. His tackles seem to stick more and are more aggressive. He appears to have watched a few Marty Mattner tapes..."watch the hips".

Mattner: looked out of sorts in the first half...just not the same player...but someone obviously game him a rocket at half time because thereafter very very good

I though his first few disposals were ordinary but after midway through the first quarter I thought he was one of our best players.

Massie: Another great game...is reading and playing the game superbly. By hand he's now very sure, by foot short OK but his long kicks make it very hard for our forwards...up and under and not long by AFL standards.

I never thought I would say it but I think if he continues with his current form, he will keep Thorney out of the side.

Great game by the Crows. To be sitting 10-2 considering our run and injuries is an amazing result.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Why do you hate Bode so much WW? The bloke has a heart of a horse and is probably one of the hardest working players on the playing field. You can argue class over effort any given day, but effort will get you further.

Look at players like Buckley. Pure class, but nothing to show for thus far.

Also, Bode suffered the brunt of criticism that Scott Stevens incurred as recently as six weeks ago. I'd hate to see the day when Scott Stevens enters your black book.

Becuase he's taking Jerichos spot. Waynes a big Jericho fan.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

WOW as I said a 63 point win and 10-2 winning record hides a lot of sins.

Craig has said our list is still fragile yet most ATS would struggle to name the players to delist at year end (forgetting Clarke).

Never confuse player comparison / analysis with the word "hate" .....as I have said a multitude of times ANY PLAYER on an AFL list can play the game ....particularly with the right club, coach and gameplan. But this game is about continual improvement of your list .....not having rose colored supporter glasses.

Come back to me when we get thrashed and see the player vitriol on this board.....same players different match

I know what you mean but I also believe that you can't bag certain players now based on what may happen in the future. Some of the lesser knowns are definately playing above what we expected and they may or may not get found out come finals. But for me, right NOW is a very special time to be a Crows supporter and you have to enjoy every minute of it. Especially given the "everybody gets a turn" nature of the competition.

 

[CrowMagnum]

I agree that it's hard to be critical when you have had the wins and results we've had this year.

But this is close to the same team that everyone was saying 18months ago needed 5 yeras min to rebuild.....what now ALL these players have suddenly found a miracle drug?

No....they're playing a wonderful team game under a wondeful coach BUT still in need of list/personnel improvement.

The match committe at years end will need to peel away all the glitter and make the hard analysis and call on players....

Not a miracle drug but a miracle coach (apart from the odd glitch like the Richmond game), or to put it another way the players were there to begin with but were wasted under the previous coach. I've always thought we missed out on a flag or two because of Ayres - now I know it.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I know what you mean but I also believe that you can't bag certain players now based on what may happen in the future. Some of the lesser knowns are definately playing above what we expected and they may or may not get found out come finals. But for me, right NOW is a very special time to be a Crows supporter and you have to enjoy every minute of it. Especially given the "everybody gets a turn" nature of the competition.

That's a very important point.....player lists must be culled and formulated on players ability to play against the best in the league in finals and hopefully Grandfinals.

Games against average sides can make certain players look good....but they can really be found out on the big stage.

With the AFC I look at if we're playing a "team" orientated game then you only need one player with substandard skills to cause a potential turnover.

Effort goes so far but in Craigs gameplan he requires high skill AND effort to execute.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Not a miracle drug but a miracle coach (apart from the odd glitch like the Richmond game), or to put it another way the players were there to begin with but were wasted under the previous coach. I've always thought we missed out on a flag or two because of Ayres - now I know it.

Quite possibly partucularly the 2 years we had Carey?????

 

[KUNG FU]

Reilly also had 12 tackles last night. Played a fantastic offensive game.

This stat deserves much more recognition. TWELVE TACKLES.

 

[FCAGJAT]

And for the record again....IMO Vince will be a better player than Bode by 50%.

You do realize that skills diminish with age and vince (we hope) will overtake bode in this area in time! However you're looking too far into the future and pouring a lot of confidence into him when he has just shown glimpses of what he can do. Hasn't proven a lot yet imo but at least he's been given the opportunity by craig.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You do realize that skills diminish with age and vince (we hope) will overtake bode in this area in time! However you're looking too far into the future and pouring a lot of confidence into him when he has just shown glimpses of what he can do. Hasn't proven a lot yet imo but at least he's been given the opportunity by craig.

Made the same statement with mattner & Reilly....going for three in a row

 

[Stiffy_18]

Yeah Vince didn't do a lot last night but crickey, he just does that little thing once or twice a game to tell you that he will be a player. His hands are gold and he does read the ball off the pack well. If he could just get a bit more pace he will be a gun player for years to come.

Pencil it down people, Vince = Vardy. Great overhead for his size and he will kick many goals out of his backside.

 

[macca23]

Made the same statement with mattner & Reilly....going for three in a row

Craig would say that Shirley is a success.

Does he make it 4 in a row for you WW??

 

[FCAGJAT]

Made the same statement with mattner & Reilly....going for three in a row

Lucky prediction i'll give you that still your accessment is way over the top with regards to bode and i think you need to fill that half empty glass of yours and give him more credit. I'm fairly content with the way bode is performing right now which is more of a definite focus as we're travelling along nicely and we don't have to look too far into the future as yet.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Yeah Vince didn't do a lot last night but crickey, he just does that little thing once or twice a game to tell you that he will be a player. His hands are gold and he does read the ball off the pack well. If he could just get a bit more pace he will be a gun player for years to come.

Pencil it down people, Vince = Vardy. Great overhead for his size and he will kick many goals out of his backside.

Spot On