Thoughts On The St Kilda Game

[WaynesWorld19]

Lucky prediction i'll give you that still your accessment is way over the top with regards to bode and i think you need to fill that half empty glass of yours and give him more credit. I'm fairly content with the way bode is performing right now which is more of a definite focus as we're travelling along nicely and we don't have to look too far into the future as yet.

I started to read this post about giving Bode more credit and then you check yourself with this comment

I think we're agreeing...ATM he's doing a job...tough at the ball and the opposition...forcing turnovers and holding the ball in the forward line.....but he is a weak link in terms of skills compared to the team and IMO Craigs standard requirements.

His kicking is very iffy, he's not a good mark or reader of hands but I agree he's holding his spot AP.

What Iam doing is looking to next year NOT this year

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Craig would say that Shirley is a success.

Does he make it 4 in a row for you WW??

Yeah I think Shirley's doing a job .....but give me Goodwins style of tagging....he actually stopped his opponent AND was great offensively.

 

[bigman]

That's a very important point.....player lists must be culled and formulated on players ability to play against the best in the league in finals and hopefully Grandfinals.

Games against average sides can make certain players look good....but they can really be found out on the big stage.

With the AFC I look at if we're playing a "team" orientated game then you only need one player with substandard skills to cause a potential turnover.

Effort goes so far but in Craigs gameplan he requires high skill AND effort to execute.

WW you make good points.

Although we have played well again this year, we do not want to fail again in the finals.

It is the finals where frail players often become exposed. It is the finals where poor decision makers get found out. We have too many players IMHO who are yet to prove they are good decision makers at critical times, and who need to come under scrutiny at years end when the pressure is on.

For what it is worth - these are the players I have doubts on when the pressure is applied: Kenny, Skippy (he could not kick over 40m when we needed him in the last quarter), Perrie, Biglands, Bode, Stevens, Bock, Thommo, Reilly etc.) For some, this is because they have only played in one or two finals -for others like Biglands it is because I have yet to see them have an influence, when the acid is applied.

The finals this year will make or break some players careers. We cannot afford a la St Kilda to have a team on toast and then burn it with poor kicking for goal and poor decision making, when pressure is applied, so we go back to old poor habits.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

WW you make good points.

Although we have played well again this year, we do not want to fail again in the finals.

It is the finals where frail players often become exposed. it is he finals where poor decision makers get found out. We have too many players IMHO who are yet to prove they are good decision makers at critical times, and who need t ocome under scrutiny at years end when the pressure is on.

For what it is worth - these are the players I have doubts on when the pressure is applied: Kenny, Skippy (he could not kick over 40m when we needed him in the last quarter), Perrie, Biglands, Bode, Stevens, Bock, Thommo, Reilly etc.) For some this is because they have only played in one or two finals -for others like Biglands it is because I have yet t ose them have an influence when the acid is applied.

The finals this year will make or break some players careers. We cannot afford a la St Kilda to have a team on toast and thne burn it with porr kicking for goal and poor decision making, when pressure is applied, so we go back to old poor habits.

Agree with your points:

Will Kenny be quick enough on a hard surface Grand Final Day - will his kicking be reliable
Will Thommo hold his composure on the big stage and not give silly free kicks away....these are all question marks.

Not sure if Reilly has queries ATS but as you say we're still to see him perform at that level.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

WW you make good points.

Although we have played well again this year, we do not want to fail again in the finals.

It is the finals where frail players often become exposed. It is the finals where poor decision makers get found out. We have too many players IMHO who are yet to prove they are good decision makers at critical times, and who need to come under scrutiny at years end when the pressure is on.

For what it is worth - these are the players I have doubts on when the pressure is applied: Kenny, Skippy (he could not kick over 40m when we needed him in the last quarter), Perrie, Biglands, Bode, Stevens, Bock, Thommo, Reilly etc.) For some, this is because they have only played in one or two finals -for others like Biglands it is because I have yet to see them have an influence, when the acid is applied.
The finals this year will make or break some players careers. We cannot afford a la St Kilda to have a team on toast and then burn it with poor kicking for goal and poor decision making, when pressure is applied, so we go back to old poor habits.

I see your point but don't these concerns also apply to 1st tier players ie will Riewoldt kick inaccurately on Grand final day, will Del Santo let his opponent run off him, will Tredrea go missing come finals.

The way I see it we have 6 1st tier players - Johncock, Rutten, Goody, Edwards, Macca and Roo. If more than two go missing come finals it will have a huge impact on where we finish as I don't believe our mutliple 2nd tiers have the class to fill the void. Alot depends on the performances of 6 I have mentioned as to how far we progress.

 

[jenny61_99]

Well, I was lucky enough to get down for the St Kilda game on Friday night.... great to catch up with you Macca and Nikki-Noo!

What a fantastic win this was. Couldn't believe the Herald Sun yesterday morning - all about St Kilda... you would have sworn they won the game. But really the thing that ****ed me off most about the paper was all the woes "poor St kilda" have in terms of injury. As far as I can see there are MANY clubs that are facing the same if not worse injury problems as St Kilda. WB just suffered their FIFTH serious knee injury last night. And of course we are not without our problems. Hudson, Clarke, Burton, Perrie, Welsh, Van Berlo, Hart and Bock are all certain start-ups in our squad. And you can add to that Roo's cronic groin problem and Macca's foot injury that have seen them both limp to the mid-season break. The difference between us and St Kilda is a) the coach; b) the fact that our second tier players are all playing above expectations; c) our skills; and d)we play AS A TEAM. As far as I can tell, West Coast are the only team in the top 4 (maybe 8) that have not suffered major or lengthy injuries. So I believe our 10 wins 2 losses are far more valuable than theirs in terms of we are winning without at least SEVEN of our starting 22. Now we just have to get them all fit and have a selectors nightmare as to who to leave out!

Anyways, on with the game. Adelaide played AWESOME footy on Friday night with all team members contributing. I particularly loved the performances from Stevens and Massie - two players I have been quite disappointed in this year. It was great to see Stevens give Riewoldt a bath! And if Macca has a foot problem, it wasn't obvious. He ran and ran and ran and ran! Mattner also was back to his brilliant best. Roo is clearly struggling and it was interesting watching the replay last night and finding out that Skippy was on stand-by until the players actually walked out on to the ground, with Roo given until the last minute to decide if he would play or not.

Shirley worries me a little in that although he got a lot of the ball, so did his opponent.... I thought the whole point of a "tagger" was that he is supposed to stop his opponent getting the ball?? Anyways, this was a little concern in the overall scheme of things. It was great to see such good support for the Crows too. And it was wonderful to see us go into the break on top of the ladder (courtesy of a Port Adelaide win against the Eagles). We need this two weeks to nurse/rest wounds and regenerate.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Shirley worries me a little in that although he got a lot of the ball, so did his opponent.... I thought the whole point of a "tagger" was that he is supposed to stop his opponent getting the ball??

Nah...apparently taggers don't have to stop their opponents....I think in modern lingo it's called restricting your opponent

 

[jenny61_99]

Nah...apparently taggers don't have to stop their opponents....I think in modern lingo it's called restricting your opponent

Ok then... define "restricting"!

 

[Crow-mo]

Nah...apparently taggers don't have to stop their opponents....I think in modern lingo it's called restricting your opponent

yeah, but you actually think goodwin tags his opponent too

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Strange thing to say but I like the balance of our injury list at the moment:

Bock - key defender
Hart - mid-size defender
Clarke - ruckman
Van Berlo - midfielder
Burton - midfielder/forward
Welsh - mid-size forward
Perrie - key forward


Teams tend to struggle when there are a number of one particular type of player out, although the Bulldogs are contradicting that at the moment. I think this is one reason that we have been able to cover the injuries so well.

 

[RogerRabbit69]

Couldn't believe the Herald Sun yesterday morning - all about St Kilda... you would have sworn they won the game.

Jenny, the reality is that the Saints are a much bigger story than the Crows in Victoria. The vast majority of the Herald Sun's readers are Victorian - and most of them couldn't give a sh.t about the Crows. You'll find there wasn't too much in the Advertiser about the Saints, either. The papers just cater to their audience.

 

[drakeyv2]

And for the record again....IMO Vince will be a better player than Bode by 50%.

I think you may be right here, but, I thought it was Bernies poorest AFL game to date & at this moment Bode is the beter option.

 

[Alex99]

I think you may be right here, but, I thought it was Bernies poorest AFL game to date & at this moment Bode is the beter option.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that are they?

But in 18 months (season 2008) time Mathew Bode may have to ask for a trade to continue his AFL career or find a few new strings to his game to hold Bernie Vince and Richard Douglas out of the side

 

[drakeyv2]

I don’t think anyone is disputing that are they?

But in 18 months (season 2008) time Mathew Bode may have to ask for a trade to continue his AFL career or find a few new strings to his game to hold Bernie Vince and Richard Douglas out of the side

No argument from me. I think Vince has that bit of magic about him that will make him a real find.

 

[FCAGJAT]

I don’t think anyone is disputing that are they?

But in 18 months (season 2008) time Mathew Bode may have to ask for a trade to continue his AFL career

Heck I hope that doesn't happen

 

[drakeyv2]

I'm glad we don't have Thomas as our coach.

I thought he was pretty laughable with the "our house our rules" line before the game & then the 'if you think your tired your tired" bit after.

Maybe they were tired because they were chasing a fitter side around all night.

Sure the mental side of the game is important, but I heard some oldtimer saying (maybe David Parkin) if the game was 90% mental, then he would still be playing.

 

[RogerRabbit69]

I agree. I find Thomas a wholly unimpressive individual.

 

[CrowTwig]

I don’t think anyone is disputing that are they?

But in 18 months (season 2008) time Mathew Bode may have to ask for a trade to continue his AFL career or find a few new strings to his game to hold Bernie Vince and Richard Douglas out of the side

I doubt you will find any other player in the side (apart from Welsh) who continually tries to put pressure on opposition backmen to keep the ball in the forward 50. Sure he doesn't kick bags of goals each games, but the opportunity he creates for other forwards is vital.

 

[Alex99]

I doubt you will find any other player in the side (apart from Welsh) who continually tries to put pressure on opposition backmen to keep the ball in the forward 50. Sure he doesn't kick bags of goals each games, but the opportunity he creates for other forwards is vital.

And Bernie Vince or Richard Douglas is not going to be able to develop the same amounts of urgency?

I am a Mathew Bode fan but he only has a limited life line before some of the younger boys catch up to him and over takes him in the selection order.

 

[-CG-]

I think you may be right here, but, I thought it was Bernies poorest AFL game to date & at this moment Bode is the beter option.

I'd his worst game would have been in round 1. He had limited game time again on Friday night, but he had more posessions.

 

[marvin]

And Bernie Vince or Richard Douglas is not going to be able to develop the same amounts of urgency?

I am a Mathew Bode fan but he only has a limited life line before some of the younger boys catch up to him and over takes him in the selection order.

It's not just a question of urgency. It's also a question of tackling effectiveness.

Bode is way, way up there in terms of actually bringing his man to ground, and/or dispossessing the tackled player.

It's a skill that he possesses at an elite level in AFL terms. Players of that ilk don't get discarded lightly.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I'm glad we don't have Thomas as our coach.

I thought he was pretty laughable with the "our house our rules" line before the game & then the 'if you think your tired your tired" bit after.

Yeah, I thought that Thomas quote was arrogant, considering we have a better record at their house/home/dome than they do!!!

 

[jenny61_99]

Yeah, I thought that Thomas quote was arrogant, considering we have a better record at their house/home/dome than they do!!!

They don't call him "mini-bus" for nothing!

 

[macca23]

I'm glad we don't have Thomas as our coach.

I thought he was pretty laughable with the "our house our rules" line before the game

Talked the talk but when it came to the walk he was a ruptured duck.

He is a f-wit.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Talked the talk but when it came to the walk he was a ruptured duck.

He is a f-wit.

Agree. His prematch comment about this being "our turf" reminded me of The Scorpions V Richie, Ralph Mouth and the rest of the gang in the car park of Al's. Very 1950's, very embarrassing.

I think he is the equal of Connolly as the AFLs worst coach.