Moved Thread Thread management discussion

[vjknight]

just thought id try to beat anyone else sorry dave.

but honestly, this is more about trying to gather discussion on how our board should approach all of the threads in the leadup to a game.

normally we see a couple of preview threads (and generally of amazingly good quality) plus bits and pieces about injury & tribunal updates, rumours about this & that etc etc.

i believe in the off-season we should re-visit the way we compile our information in the threads, whether the threads all need separating or merging, merging under types only, especially considering the upgrade to bigfooty during the year.

mods, do you have access to what changes have been made, or are envisaged, that could change the way our board manage threads on a weekly basis ?

im tired of trade week - we need a new topic.

 

[vjknight]

Technically isn't our next game going to be the tri team round robin crap in round one of the NAB Cup?

Where's that thread?

geez youre a humourless bastard matt.

cmon youre the creative type, with access to various forums etc.

any suggestions ?

 

[Shellz]

An injury thread would be great every week after the game. Well no thread would be better but it's good to read about it in one spot

Predicted changes
Actual changes
Dave's thread
Game day - Matty special
Post game
Injuries
Reports

And the cycle starts again.

 

[DaVe86]

I have always not understood the absolute necessity to merge threads.

I understand when you have 2 or 3 identical threads, they should be merged.

Otherwise, I think people prefer to have multiple shorter threads on a specific topic than all of them getting lost in one thread. Lets face it, people don't read 14 pages before they make their post.

I know I hate it when I do my preview (and Matt can comment on this as well)...and it simply gets merged into the pre-game thread and within 5 minutes its lost and never seen again.

I think people get bored if they see the same thread at the top every day. It's better to get new ideas, new topics and new conversations going I reckon.

I agree to merge all the essential stuff. But I think more threads the merrier personally. I like going through on commenting on multiple topics. If everything is in the one place, after I've had my say I have nothing else to do.

 

[vjknight]

I have always not understood the absolute necessity to merge threads.

I understand when you have 2 or 3 identical threads, they should be merged.

Otherwise, I think people prefer to have multiple shorter threads on a specific topic than all of them getting lost in one thread. Lets face it, people don't read 14 pages before they make their post.

I know I hate it when I do my preview (and Matt can comment on this as well)...and it simply gets merged into the pre-game thread and within 5 minutes its lost and never seen again.

I think people get bored if they see the same thread at the top every day. It's better to get new ideas, new topics and new conversations going I reckon.

I agree to merge all the essential stuff. But I think more threads the merrier personally. I like going through on commenting on multiple topics. If everything is in the one place, after I've had my say I have nothing else to do.

thanks dave86. are sub forums for preview/gameday threads the answer ?

 

[Jelly Bean]

I have always not understood the absolute necessity to merge threads.

I understand when you have 2 or 3 identical threads, they should be merged.

Otherwise, I think people prefer to have multiple shorter threads on a specific topic than all of them getting lost in one thread. Lets face it, people don't read 14 pages before they make their post.

I know I hate it when I do my preview (and Matt can comment on this as well)...and it simply gets merged into the pre-game thread and within 5 minutes its lost and never seen again.

I think people get bored if they see the same thread at the top every day. It's better to get new ideas, new topics and new conversations going I reckon.

I agree to merge all the essential stuff. But I think more threads the merrier personally. I like going through on commenting on multiple topics. If everything is in the one place, after I've had my say I have nothing else to do.

Absolutely 100% agree.

I rarely read threads that are over the 4 page mark (as the quality of posts tends to fall). I am an advocate of more (but targetted) threads. Over-merging was a problem last year, in my opinion.

I also agree with Dave around the variety - if people see the same 4-5 threads just being rehashed each week it gets a bit repetitive.

 

[Swooop]

To merge or not to merge??

Thanks DaVe 86 and JellyBean for your thoughts.

The counter arguments, that we often get PM'd about, is asking us to merge threads, so we don't get several threads all basically chatting about the same thing, which disjoints discussion and eg when we had 6-7 Cloke threads going at the same time discussing would he stay or go.

With your Threads Dave 86, we usually left your preview up for 24 hours, sometimes less, sometimes more, sometimes unmerged entirely depending on all various things.

Like lots of things in life it's all a balancing act, each situation can be a little different, but very happy to hear everyone's thoughts.


I guess the basic thing is a thread should basically have something slightly unique about it to begin with. Probably not too much argument there. Hopefully no-one wants two threads, "New deal signed by Cloke" and "Cloke signs new deal" running beside each other.

And if the discussions in separate threads stay separate, again, that's pretty easy and obvious! No problemo.

If the two threads end up pretty much talking about the same things, that's where it can be tempting to merge them to keep the line of discussion all together and conjoined.
I guess DaVe86, that was usually the point where, rightly or wrongly, we merged your thread to the Prematch Thread.

I do think we overmerged a while back where we were trying to have three main match threads;
1. Prematch Thread with Changes and prematch discussion,
2. Matty's Matchday Thread
3. Postmatch Thread - aswell as Snoop's Player Review and Robertg/ BayPie's Didaka Medal Votes thread.

At the stage we did that, it was probably with a view to archiving the BF season into well defined chapters.

We then stopped that overly tight format and let the Postmatch threads sprout with Roasts here, Toasts there, and whatever else people wanted to post after the game, but tried to keep the Prematch and Matchday Threads fairly contained, allowing for DaVe 86's Preview Thread to have a separate life of it's own, until such time as it became a parallel discussion with the Prematch Thread, when usually it got merged.

I think a lot felt that gave a predictability to things, people knew what was where, rather than having a less structured approach, but on the other hand, perhaps lots of different threads may be more interesting and edgy?

Maybe have the three main Match threads and then several little satellite threads around all of them, rather than just with the Postmatch one, increasing the breadth and numbers if threads but at the risk of being very similar at times.

 

[vjknight]

swooop thanks for the mod view.

if giving examples, do try to find something other than the biggest, longest topic for the year, being cloke, to drive the merger agenda. better examples might be threads on a certain other player eg s.buckley.

personally im pushing for the weekly, run of the mill preview threads to be left unmerged til gameday, simply cos its downright impossible to catch up once you get behind. there are often plenty of issues with a slightly different angle every week which do get lost when merged.

also the BF update during the year, and intro of 'like' has changed the way we post. it hopefully does avoid the 'i agree' type responses which unnecessarily did expand a thread.

and great to see the humour coming thru in the thread. its something we need a little more of.

 

[Swooop]

Well Quickster and 76ws may well have their own views, and they may be different, but really I just wanted to point out that for every leave in merged request we get, we get one asking to merge threads that started too similar or ended up similar.

I think we merged too much earlier and a lot of that was of my doing, I take responsibility for that, and we merge much less these days. But dufferent threads talking about the same stuff do do a lot of people's heads in that's all.

It's just a matter of judgment and balance, sometimes you're damned of you do and damned if you don't haha.

Just want to say reckon the board is going pretty well at the moment but we are always very open to suggestion to how to make it better.

Anyhow this thread might need renaming if we carry on in this vein go pies yeah North's longer break is a pain but I guess we're used to being shafted

 

[MyManLynch]

I have always not understood the absolute necessity to merge threads.

I understand when you have 2 or 3 identical threads, they should be merged.

Otherwise, I think people prefer to have multiple shorter threads on a specific topic than all of them getting lost in one thread. Lets face it, people don't read 14 pages before they make their post.
I know I hate it when I do my preview (and Matt can comment on this as well)...and it simply gets merged into the pre-game thread and within 5 minutes its lost and never seen again.
I think people get bored if they see the same thread at the top every day. It's better to get new ideas, new topics and new conversations going I reckon.
I agree to merge all the essential stuff. But I think more threads the merrier personally. I like going through on commenting on multiple topics. If everything is in the one place, after I've had my say I have nothing else to do.

I agree that when quality match previews are posted they should remain 'independent' to allow all posters to view/read/comment with ease, rather than searching in another mega post or perhaps not even realizing it exists.
DaVe maybe you should post your preview now.......then it will last until late March next year before it disappears.

 

[76woodenspooners]

For those unhappy about thread merging, we can de-merge threads too

 

[rustyg70]

I like the idea of 1 Game day Thread with sub forums.
Another idea for a sub forum I'd like to see an Opposition analysis thread.

 

[Pera]

I've never really seen the point of having a 'Matchday Discussion thread'. Is that where interstate supporters live chat during the game?

Other than that, it's pretty spot on. You have your weekly changes thread, and post match discussions. Thats all you really need to be honest. An injury thread would be excellent though.

 

[Pera]

I agree that when quality match previews are posted they should remain 'independent' to allow all posters to view/read/comment with ease, rather than searching in another mega post or perhaps not even realizing it exists.
DaVe maybe you should post your preview now.......then it will last until late March next year before it disappears.

Their previews are added in the title of the prematch thread so they are easily accessible. I'd hate to go to our board and see 8 preview threads on the same game.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The main page of our board provides a menu of discussion topics for people to engage in. Just like a restaurant menu, it's nice to have a good selection of choice to whet the appetite.

During the season there is a lot of thread turnover. Sometimes a thread barely lasts a day before it is bumped off the main board. What that means in practical terms, is that if you log off and go to bed just before a thread is created, by the time you log back onto BigFooty the following evening after dinner, that thread could have been lost off the main page and you've missed it. And that thread just may be about some fringe topic that you feel very passionately about. So if we merge threads that are discussing very similar things, then that slows that process down, and maximises the variety of topics on the main board to discuss.

DaVe86 - IIRC, you often say in your preview threads "mods, please feel free to merge"? If two posters go to the extraordinary effort to write a thorough preview (which both DaVe86 and mattys123 do), then in principle I don't have a problem with each of them having their own preview threads. Yes, variety is good, but make no mistake, games of footy are the main fare here, and preview threads get plenty of traffic to keep two threads busy. It could become a problem if too many people want their own threads, but we're a long way off having to worry about that.

Now that it's off season the thread creation rate is currently very slow. So the need to merge threads has been reduced.

I think there is a strong onus on the OP and how they name and introduce the thread. If,as an OP, you want to create a thread that discusses a topic from a different angle, the onus is on you to differentiate your new thread and justify why you've created it. Not just to prevent us mods from merging it, but to avoid the inevitable flames from other posters who complain about "Why has yet another thread been created to discuss this?"

 

[Quicky]

I have always not understood the absolute necessity to merge threads.

I understand when you have 2 or 3 identical threads, they should be merged.

Otherwise, I think people prefer to have multiple shorter threads on a specific topic than all of them getting lost in one thread. Lets face it, people don't read 14 pages before they make their post.

I know I hate it when I do my preview (and Matt can comment on this as well)...and it simply gets merged into the pre-game thread and within 5 minutes its lost and never seen again.

I think people get bored if they see the same thread at the top every day. It's better to get new ideas, new topics and new conversations going I reckon.

I agree to merge all the essential stuff. But I think more threads the merrier personally. I like going through on commenting on multiple topics. If everything is in the one place, after I've had my say I have nothing else to do.

I think the problem at the time last year was at the beginning of the season we had no prematch discussion thread until yours was posted. Which was usually on the Thursday. The issue with this was that it meant prematch discussion was limited from the end of the previous game up to that Thursday. I think opening up the prematch thread earlier was a very positive thing for the board.

What this meant was that when your prematch thread was posted the content was very similar to the regular prematch thread. As the discussion was parallel, or often because there weren't many responses and it was dropping off the front page, we merged it after a period of time. Perhaps we were overzealous with this, i'm sure the other mods would be happy to leave it unmerged in the future. It's all a balancing act and we don't always get it right.

We are open to suggestions.

Absolutely 100% agree.

I rarely read threads that are over the 4 page mark (as the quality of posts tends to fall). I am an advocate of more (but targetted) threads. Over-merging was a problem last year, in my opinion.

I also agree with Dave around the variety - if people see the same 4-5 threads just being rehashed each week it gets a bit repetitive.

Outside of merging Daves thread can you think of any other examlple that was an issue?

When you refer to the 4-5 threads being rehashed are you referring to the weekly threads? Prematch/Mattys matchday/postmatch/snoops player review/didaka medal?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Outside of merging Daves thread can you think of any other examlple that was an issue?

Quicky, one thing that was frustrating the season just gone (referring to my pre-mod days) was the way a different Cloke thread seemed to created every other day. I think the mods then did an excellent job with merging them into a single thread and ensuring that we remained the "Collingwood" board and not the "Travis Cloke saga" board.

Ditto with Mick Malthouse to a lesser extent.

 

[PieNSauce]

Much as I know some will disagree, I am not a big fan of merging unless it's done within the first few posts and even then it can be confusing. I know some people get a bit peeved if their thread gets closed but really, if the topics are so similar I'd rather see that happen than merging and the posters asked to move their discussion to the pre-existing thread. In the case of DaVe86 and mattys123, I reckon each deserves their own thread although I understand that it can cause disjointed discussion. The fact is, as has already been mentioned, that both go to a lot of trouble with their summaries and it seems only fair to recognise that effort by giving them the ownership of the thread. Because of the nature of the work they do, maybe it's better that the main lead-up thread gets closed when DaVe86's thread goes up and Mattys123's thread can run in parallel. I kind of like the idea of subforums too actually rather than merging. Lots of short threads are much easier to read than one massive one IMO and if the subforums are well defined by topic, moving threads there might be a better solution than merging or closing.

Anyway, in the end I reckon our mods do a pretty good job and it's easy to criticise but I'm sure at times it's difficult to keep up with everything they need to do. Personally, I don't think the way things were this year was a massive issue for the board but more than happy for some thought into changes that will improve it.

 

[vjknight]

I think there is a strong onus on the OP and how they name and introduce the thread.

are you saying it wasnt a good idea to title this thread 'round 1 preview' ?

and thanks for the demerger. you remind me of a dodgy CFO.

 

[DaVe86]

Yeah sorry I didn't mean this to turn into a discussion about my previews or matts previews...was just putting a generalised example of how threads can get lost. To be honest, considering I get exposure on the club website I am happy for my preview to be put in the match day thread...and quite often I just put it there myself.

In the past my aim was to have the preview done by Tues or Wednesday...but Collingwood don't let me get it up until Thursday now...so by this stage most of the other match threads are in full swing.


In terms of sub-forums...I also don't believe in these. To be honest, I think most people just come to the forum, see whats on the first page and don't go exploring.

All in all however, I think the forum is going fine. Mods are doing a terrific job and this would be one of the more successful boards going around. I used to be 100% Nicks, then went 50/50, but would now be 75-80% this board because of the amount of new content that is on here. I also like the odd contribution from outside fans and the fact that opposition supporters can come in easily and have a look. Makes for a more well-rounded forum.


My comments are purely to say that I don't think we should over-police. Don't fix what aint broke. Let the new content roll. Don't over-organise. If we get the same topic up 3-5 times then merging is obvious. However if 2 similar threads are going in seperate directions, then let them be. As mentioned above, its better to have 3 shorter topics, than 1 really long blown out one. The long one's get boring too. Sometimes its better to get a new one on a similar topic but start discussion again as the long ones often go in tangents.

Also agree that the title of threads need to be clear. The onus is on the OP to get it right, but if it is deceiving then should be re-titled.

 

[Nicco_jj]

I think the mods are doing a good job. There is no way that every person will be 100% happy unfortunately.

 

[Swooop]

Re the overzealous merging, I take responsibility for that notion and apologies to anyone that got shat off with it.

The motivation for merging threads where the topics were very similar, was to maximise the number of separate topics still listed on page 1 - as when topics dropped off the first page they seemed to become a bit like last week's newpapers, even when the issue was still topical. Also to prevent parallel discussions occurring in separate threads.

Anyhow, I think we try and get better balance now, always a juggle as you can probably imagine - but I guess feel free to let us know if you feel something is overmerged or undermerged.

Thanks DaVe for your very well balanced post above.

 

[lozza63]

I reckon having minimum three game threads seems ok. I would lock one as soon as the next one kicked off.

The initial preview/changes thread - it tends to become disjointed and frankly at times onerously drawn out.

I especially look forward to both preview threads - Dave's and Matty's - i feel we dont get Dave's early enough though. Having that thread given a kick start with the the closure of the initial thread would give it more legs for discussion as people wouldnt have a choice.

Finally we could have Matty's match thread which includes the finalised teams and is a perfect lead into the live chat for the next day.

 

[Quicky]

I reckon having minimum three game threads seems ok. I would lock one as soon as the next one kicked off.

The initial preview/changes thread - it tends to become disjointed and frankly at times onerously drawn out.

I especially look forward to both preview threads - Dave's and Matty's - i feel we dont get Dave's early enough though. Having that thread given a kick start with the the closure of the initial thread would give it more legs for discussion as people wouldnt have a choice.

Finally we could have Matty's match thread which includes the finalised teams and is a perfect lead into the live chat for the next day.

We used to do this with the matchday thread leading into the post match thread. We got a lot of complaints from people that were in the middle of a conversation having the thread killed off before they could finish it. Which is fair enough. We stopped doing that. I can see a similar issue arising.

 

[PieNSauce]

In terms of sub-forums...I also don't believe in these. To be honest, I think most people just come to the forum, see whats on the first page and don't go exploring.

Thinking that through you're probably right. Even I don't often venture into sub-forums so it may not be a good idea. On everything else I'm pretty much with you. If it aint broke don't fix it.

Not sure if it's been said but one reason why merging can be such a pain is that you lose your read/unread status on posts and when there are hundreds of posts, I suspect that like me, most people wouldn't waste their time trying to understand where they left off.