Throw partisanship aside - federal icac stat

[EasternTiger]

Or, I articulated my doubts and the reasons behind them, and you resumed barracking like it's still 2019. Any chance of you answering my question at any point?

Your doubts have been noted.

I have full confidence ScoMo will put together a good commission.

What was your question?

 

[Power Raid]

I do. But then, I don't trust government or business further than I can throw them.

same

That's why I feel demarcation between politics and the commission is a positive. This includes the politics that has become a powerful business in lobby groups.

The courts and RBA are examples of our better functioning parts of government and both have controls demarcating them from the grubs

 

[chelseacarlton]

At least wait until the icac is formed and operational before you have another massive sook.

Appeal to the stone, that appears to be your favourite fallacy, you do it almost every time, in every thread you post in.
You should print it on a t-shirt for yourself.

 

[Gethelred]

Your doubts have been noted.

I have full confidence ScoMo will put together a good commission.

What was your question?

My question was, why are you confident that Scott Morrison will put together a good commission, given his government's neoconservitivity and the fact that he's provably not good at his job?

You've said you have full confidence in Morrison, but you've neglected to state why. What in particular provides you this faith, what deed he has done/experience he possesses grants you faith in his ability to set this very difficult thing up?

 

[Power Raid]

Nationals get 2% of the vote and we have to put up with their s**t show.

there will always be the loonie 10% fringe and they exist on both sides

katter, barny, pauline, hanson-young and the tassie chick all attest to that

 

[Gethelred]

same

That's why I feel demarcation between politics and the commission is a positive. This includes the politics that has become a powerful business in lobby groups.

The courts and RBA are examples of our better functioning parts of government and both have controls demarcating them from the grubs

We're not talking about the demarcation between government and independent bodies such as the RBA or the courts.

Unless there's a very good reason, you can obtain the documents which observe how decisions are made by either. In other words, there's a transparency of process. I do not like the idea of keeping such proceedings hidden away from the public, and I really don't like the idea that such isn't always in the public interest to know that what our politicians with is above board.

The important thing about this is that process is seen to be followed. Sure, the media can and will beat up anything in the early days of such a thing, but should government corruption not be publicized? I mean, it's our taxpayer money, as our friends across the aisle are so fond of saying.

 

[kranky al]

Your doubts have been noted.

I have full confidence ScoMo will put together a good commission.

What was your question?

A good commission would rigorously investigate angus.

 

[kranky al]

I would be happy if the proposed icac would only investigate from here forward if it got it off the ground uncrippled.

just draw a line in the sand and say this s**t stops here - anyone dumb enough to continue gets litup.

 

[EasternTiger]

My question was, why are you confident that Scott Morrison will put together a good commission, given his government's neoconservitivity and the fact that he's provably not good at his job?

You've said you have full confidence in Morrison, but you've neglected to state why. What in particular provides you this faith, what deed he has done/experience he possesses grants you faith in his ability to set this very difficult thing up?

Well, for starters, he won the last federal election against overwhelming odds, and he is in fact the current Prime Minister of Australia.

You don't have to be einstein to work out he knows a thing or two about putting successful teams together.

 

[Power Raid]

I can see that point of view but it has to be totally separated from political influence and the results not buried. The sports rorts as an example where the the Gaetjens reports findings weren't published so the result can't be scrutinised.

Also not sure why it has been over a year now that Government announced the Anti Corruption Commission yet nothing has happened yet.

I’d prefer an RBA type model separate from politicians

I also don’t mind proper planning and consultation as this is too big an issue to F up

12 months is not slow for planning the new, department, setting up a steering committee, defining the issue, setting the scope, consultation process with experts, integration assessment and impact, drafting legislation and securing the numbers.

 

[Power Raid]

We're not talking about the demarcation between government and independent bodies such as the RBA or the courts.

Unless there's a very good reason, you can obtain the documents which observe how decisions are made by either. In other words, there's a transparency of process. I do not like the idea of keeping such proceedings hidden away from the public, and I really don't like the idea that such isn't always in the public interest to know that what our politicians with is above board.

The important thing about this is that process is seen to be followed. Sure, the media can and will beat up anything in the early days of such a thing, but should government corruption not be publicized? I mean, it's our taxpayer money, as our friends across the aisle are so fond of saying.

False

We have freedom of information


What is being debated is whether the commission should replace the court system and parliamentary with public hearings or public operating procedures.

The commission should and will have investigative powers, referral powers and reporting.



Departments can not waiver from law or procedure.......even inferred non binding procedures that have not been formally adopted. Please refer the Roe8 decision

 

[Gethelred]

Well, for starters, he won the last federal election against overwhelming odds, and he is in fact the current Prime Minister of Australia.

I'd argue that's effectively the same thing, expressed twice.

What does that have to do with putting together an anti-corruption task force? There have been plenty of completely substandard leaders who have won elections. There have been almost more bad leaders than good ones to have won elections.

You don't have to be einstein to work out he knows a thing or two about putting successful teams together.

If that's the bar we're setting, there's 90% of the human race who'd lay a decent claim towards putting this thing together.

This is not an easy task to accomplish, even if you're not ideologically opposed to it, which this government is.

 

[Gethelred]

False

We have freedom of information


What is being debated is whether the commission should replace the court system and parliamentary with public hearings or public operating procedures.

The commission should and will have investigative powers, referral powers and reporting.



Departments can not waiver from law or procedure.......even inferred non binding procedures that have not been formally adopted. Please refer the Roe8 decision

If such hearings are not completely open to the public, then such hearings will be suspect. Such is the nature of the political process.

 

[kranky al]

Well, for starters, he won the last federal election against overwhelming odds, and he is in fact the current Prime Minister of Australia.

You don't have to be einstein to work out he knows a thing or two about putting successful teams together.

I dare say that if he didnt have a biased mainstream media network of murdoch and stokes outright barracking for him he Would be at best an ordinary opposition leader.

hes not fit to carry john howards jockstrap as a leader.

 

[Art Corvelay]

You don't have to be einstein to work out he knows a thing or two about putting successful teams together.

Reckon Tourism Australia agrees with this assessment?

 

[medusala]

You would think that the public trust is so important that these small things SHOULD result in resignation.

The video of this is something to behold.

Lord Bates's resignation over lateness rejected by PM

Lord Bates told fellow peers he intended to resign after the "discourtesy" of arriving late to a session.

www.bbc.co.uk

The prime minister has refused to accept the resignation of a lord who offered to leave his post after being late to the chamber.

Lord Bates stunned colleagues in the House of Lords by stating his intention to resign after the "discourtesy" of arriving late to a session.

Lord Bates, speaking to the Lords at the end of the questions session, described himself as "ashamed" to not have been in his place to answer a question from Labour's Baroness Lister.

"It's been my privilege to answer questions from this despatch box on behalf of the government," he told peers.

"I've always believed we should rise to the highest possible standards of courtesy and respect in responding on behalf of the government to the legitimate questions of the legislature.

"I'm thoroughly ashamed of not being in my place and therefore I shall be offering my resignation to the prime minister with immediate effect."

He then walked out of the chamber despite colleagues urging him to stay.

 

[Chief]

Interetsing, as I have no law training at all I was not aware of this (and clearly a one minute skim of Wikipedia isn't going to educate me much).

Are royalties based on "production", as in the extraction process, or on the resources themselves?
Royalties are more akin, in my mind but perhaps not in law, to the States selling State assets (the minerals belong to the people, the Constitution gives States authority over land use).

I might go back and look at it again, it’s a pretty gnarly issue.

 

[Chief]

Probably a lot of politicians retiring to "spend more time with their family"

“Which family, Barnaby?”

 

[kranky al]

 

[Caesar]

I think the Berejiklian fiasco is showing just how much of a gold standard the NSW ICAC is.

The ability to launch inquiries of its own volition, investigate anonymous complaints, investigate non-criminal corruption, and the default setting of holding all hearings in public have been so critical to its effectiveness.

We desperately need a similarly powerful commission at the federal level, but we will never get one. Best case, we get a watered-down version like Victoria’s IBAC.

 

[Gough]

I think the Berejiklian fiasco is showing just how much of a gold standard the NSW ICAC is.

The ability to launch inquiries of its own volition, investigate anonymous complaints, investigate non-criminal corruption, and the default setting of holding all hearings in public have been so critical to its effectiveness.

We desperately need a similarly powerful commission at the federal level, but we will never get one. Best case, we get a watered-down version like Victoria’s IBAC.

We won't get one while the Libs are in government that's for sure. People tend not to want to sign their own death warrants.

 

[Caesar]

We won't get one while the Libs are in government that's for sure. People tend not to want to sign their own death warrants.

It’s not really a partisan thing. Both sides of politics have been equally ineffective at implementing anti-corruption commissions over the years.

Generally both sides ignore it until the noise becomes too much, then whoever is in power puts in something toothless to quieten the chattering classes.

NSW’s ICAC is the only decent body in the country, and as a New South Welshman I’m eternally grateful to Nick Greiner for that fact.

 

[Gough]

It’s not really a partisan thing. Both sides of politics have been equally ineffective at implementing anti-corruption commissions over the years.

Generally both sides ignore it until the noise becomes too much, then whoever is in power puts in something toothless to quieten the chattering classes.

NSW’s ICAC is the only decent body in the country, and as a New South Welshman I’m eternally grateful to Nick Greiner for that fact.

Labor has been in power for seven of last twenty three years and are now seven years out of power. The both sides argument doesn't really hold water now as much as you'd like it to.

 

[Caesar]

Labor has been in power for seven of last twenty three and are seven years out of power. The both sides argument doesn't really hold water now.

Given they made no noise about it during their six years in power, I see little reason to think it would be any different if the fortunes of the two sides were reversed.

Certainly at state level, NSW and Victoria both got their anti-corruption bodies under new Coalition governments after many years of Labor sitting on their hands. In Queensland and WA, it was the reverse.

Trying to pretend one party is better than the other on this issue is really stretching it.

 

[Donakebab]

Labor and the Greens have tabled and supported a Federal ICAC proposal nine times. The LNP have voted it down nine times and never tabled their own.

It absolutely is a partisan thing.