MRP Tigers appealing 2 staging charges

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Bojangles17

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Do the umpires who 'fell for the staging' get demoted or some other punishment?
You see this is where it’s all wrong they need to be called out for a brilliant piece of umpiring , I mean to spot that push is just a level far an above umpiring we re accustomed to, instead the MRO amd shocking completely undermine and lampoon what was ultimately the correct decision. It would be fitting at AA night when GOTY was announced that they award this , decision of the year ,,,this is up there
 

roacheee

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Well that’s why many are so pissed , you can’t go making half arsed accusations Like this that intimate cheating without examining all available evidence , this is an embarrassment to the afl and a very poor reflection on their level of professionalism
*pissed off...pls
 

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Schlurp

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Aug 21, 2009
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I agree witch-hunting is not desirable but incompetence no matter what causes it needs to be recognised and dealt with when you are talking about positions like this.
All true. Let's hope sanity prevails and the system adapts to recognise its deficiencies. And that people who are simply trying to do their best don't get smashed simply because they are not up to the job they've been given.
 

rmcq

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My take on “staging”:
Very few people are biomechanics experts. I know that sometimes I’ve been put off balance by a small push.

every Single Person that plays sport does their best to get awarded free kicks to both get the ball and get one up on their opponent.

Fines should be reserved for blatant fakes: where there is zero contact but the player reacts. Everything else is fan fuel.
 

rmcq

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Horrified the Richmond guys got off their fines for staging, in a nutshell
Just watched it. He was horrified that anyone would question the brilliance of the Dynamic Duo of Hocking and Christian.

Frankly the MRO is a joke. The Lynch referral was nonsensical, as was the Vlas fine. Those two should be out of a job.
 

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Meteoric Rise

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WHately actually sounding like his old self tonight, talking about our guys getting off, saying it was the expected outcome.

Robbo absolutely losing it, hoping there is more staging this week and guys charged lol
These clowns just need to first make this distinction, between:

a) an incident where there is no infringement and the player tries to fool the umpire into thinking there is one. We all would probably agree we want this penalised and stamped out of the game. In these cases I think it should be suspension.

b) where there is an infringement that should attract a clear free kick or 50m penalty, and the player infringed puts some mayo on it to ensure the umpire notices. These ones are less clear I think should warrant a quiet word normally or a low grade penalty at worst, like minimum fine.

Then after making that distinction they need to decide whether in Grimes' or Vlastuin’s case they fit either of these categories. I am certain they do not fit the first category as both were very clearly infringed. But I am not even sure either incident is an example of b) and at the very least there is doubt about it, doubt that should be adjudicated in favour of the player concerned.

The Vlastuin one is just 100% clear to me. There is contact made high and late after he has held the mark and that is 50m so long as there is any more than feather force in the contact and there was. The debate about staging should end there in his case. In my eyes he could have rolled around on the ground like he’d been shot and it makes no difference to the correct decision being made.

Grimes also received a clear shove in the back and from there it is a simple matter of debating whether there is sufficient force in the shove to constitute a free kick. But at the very least it creates enough doubt to exonerate him from any penalty for staging. On balance I think it is a pretty clear free kick.

I think all these people seem to be needing a bit of me time because none of them seem to be thinking straight.
 

k31th

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I get appealing based on its very pick and choose on who got done for it but it’s embarrassing appealing Grimes in particular.
His was staging every single time, but the AFL have no idea what they’re doing.
If they want to stamp it out ping every single one, every week.
Just look at my GIF in this post in HD and 0.125x speed and see my explanation:

if you still think he's staging, then I'm not sure where your mind is.
 

NZ_Tiger

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Grimes exaggerated it yes, but when you see the replay this was not staging, he was pushed. I said at the time, the umpire had perfect view and there was a little push there so I thought it was a free kick.

The Vlastuin one I will defend as well, when you are running back like that you don't expect a swinging arm at your neck it's fairly natural to throw your head back. Maybe exaggerated and not worth a 50, but again not staging.
Anyone that has played bellchanbers knows he loves to lay late sneaky hits and generally gets away with it as the umpires don’t like to pay free kicks for it. However a savvy opponent knows he’ll always leave his arm out to make you “earn” it, simple matter to do what Vlaustuin did and stand tall and draw contact rather than trying to avoid him and cop a whack on the arm or back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Livonski

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I’ll be the lone guy that sticks up for Christian.
I reckon he gets dictated to by superiors and have no doubt the Lynch thing got pushed to tribunal by powers above. Similarly the staging crap. They are driven by public perception.
there are blatant instances of staging that can get fined. These two were not. Vlastuin obviously, Grimes not so but vision at first look doesn’t help him.
Its the worst job in footy. He can’t win.
 

Meteoric Rise

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I’ll be the lone guy that sticks up for Christian.
I reckon he gets dictated to by superiors and have no doubt the Lynch thing got pushed to tribunal by powers above. Similarly the staging crap. They are driven by public perception.
there are blatant instances of staging that can get fined. These two were not. Vlastuin obviously, Grimes not so but vision at first look doesn’t help him.
Its the worst job in footy. He can’t win.
If Hocking is driving the decisions then he needs to cop the flak. But Christian is putting his name to these decisions and so he should rightly be under scrutiny. Between the two of them, this 3 from 3 wrong versus one team in one game where both the umps and tribunal got it right, tells you something is horrendously wrong with the MRO decisions.
 

Meteoric Rise

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why did they move to one guy instead of a panel or at least 2 people? 1 person just seems too open to blatant mistakes or manipulation
I think it has been explained away as streamlining and a benefit to consistency. I also seem to recall Gil explaining that Hocking will be ticking off the individual decisions, so it is a bit of a two person process. One or both of them should be stood down if there is proper thought put into what has gone on here.
 

Tony Stark

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Oct 12, 2015
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These clowns just need to first make this distinction, between:

a) an incident where there is no infringement and the player tries to fool the umpire into thinking there is one. We all would probably agree we want this penalised and stamped out of the game. In these cases I think it should be suspension.

b) where there is an infringement that should attract a clear free kick or 50m penalty, and the player infringed puts some mayo on it to ensure the umpire notices. These ones are less clear I think should warrant a quiet word normally or a low grade penalty at worst, like minimum fine.

Then after making that distinction they need to decide whether in Grimes' or Vlastuin’s case they fit either of these categories. I am certain they do not fit the first category as both were very clearly infringed. But I am not even sure either incident is an example of b) and at the very least there is doubt about it, doubt that should be adjudicated in favour of the player concerned.

The Vlastuin one is just 100% clear to me. There is contact made high and late after he has held the mark and that is 50m so long as there is any more than feather force in the contact and there was. The debate about staging should end there in his case. In my eyes he could have rolled around on the ground like he’d been shot and it makes no difference to the correct decision being made.

Grimes also received a clear shove in the back and from there it is a simple matter of debating whether there is sufficient force in the shove to constitute a free kick. But at the very least it creates enough doubt to exonerate him from any penalty for staging. On balance I think it is a pretty clear free kick.

I think all these people seem to be needing a bit of me time because none of them seem to be thinking straight.
There shouldn't be any debate re sufficient force to constitute a free because the AFL rules for a push in a marking contest do not mention force, a free kick for a push should be paid regardless of force.

Therefore even the slightest of pushes by a defender constitutes a free kick according to a strict interpretation of the rules. It's really difficult to state in clear terms what a push is so umpires appear to use force as a determination to pay the free which according to the rule is incorrect.

I believe this interpretation is why players are staging, if every push regardless of force were being paid there would be no need for players to exaggerate the push in the first place although we would be seeing alot more free kicks. Maybe the way the rules have been expressed require changing to include a measure of some description e.g. a push is accompanied by an arm extension of more than 90 degrees by the offending player.
 

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