Traded Tim Kelly [traded with #57 and future 3rd to West Coast for #14, #24, #33 and future 1st]

Who won this trade?

  • Geelong

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • West Coast

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Remove this Banner Ad

Blueeygrey

Cancelled
Aug 25, 2019
110
45
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Perth Demons, Coorow Magpies
I like your suggestion because it seeks to provide consistency. I don't fully understand how it would work. Are you saying that in the Lynch case, Richmond's first pick would have been devalued which would not allow them to use it until later in the draft? If this is the case then we still must have a method, other than contract value, for determining what the points value (or worth) of the moving player is.
I refer again to the impending Ellis move where it looks like Richmond are going to end up with effectively an extra (end of) first round pick for a non-required player simply because GC are paying him over the odds. If you were looking to trade Ellis there is no way a destination club would part with a first round pick. Personally I'd not give up a second round pick for him. I think he is an average player in a very good team and I don't think he will be of much value to GC. I like your method but determining value remains the question
yes the value determination is the question,but not something that can’t be overcome. In Richmonds case they would receive negative points, I wouldn’t add extra complications on the AFL on which picks should be removed. That should be up to the club as all clubs go into the draft with a fixed points balance. In Richmonds case I’m sure they would work it from the later rounds down until they have the minimum picks allowed.
As in the Ellis Gold Coast deal then the same value equation should be implemented. Determining the value will always be a point of contention and should probably be left to someone more qualified than myself. I would think the equation should be transparent and revolve around:
1) money- the amount the original clubs have paid (ave) over the years
2) age
3) ranking*

*this ranking is problematic ,1) either have no ranking or 2) base it off a combination of factors.
1) draft ranking or (have all list managers submit their rankings before each draft to a secure non identifiable enclave)
2) power ratings
3) games played each year
4) games lost to injury
these ideas might sound a little crazy but the AFL needs to come up with a way to protect the draft integrity in a transparent way.
That way the arguments can continue transparently on this forum.
 

Shadow89

Cancelled
10k Posts AFL Fantasy Div 6+ Winner 2021
Feb 20, 2018
17,150
41,361
Since you like my suggestion, to illustrate the ridiculousness of the compensation system, and the true impact of my system on the way clubs would approach FA recruiting.. Consider this question.. do you think GC would give up their first round pick to get Ellis and Richmond's second round pick? Not a hope in hell and yet the AFL looks like placing that value on him.

Should probably keep up to date with the latest AFL news...Deal is done. Richmond got absolutely shafted with Pick 39 (end of 2nd rounder)
 

Log in to remove this ad.

smokie

Senior List
Mar 15, 2009
188
135
Dromana
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Have it on good authority Eagles will trad pick 24 and 33 for Hawthorns pick 11. Eagles will ask for a current 2nd rounder back for our 2nd rounder next season from Geelong as part of the deal. So deal is

Geelong get - Pick 11, 14, Eagles 2020 2nd rounder
Eagles get - Tim Kelly, 2nd rounder this year
Feel hawks loose put their massively. Highest pick they have had since 2006. Would be looking at a player, not picks.
 

Shadow89

Cancelled
10k Posts AFL Fantasy Div 6+ Winner 2021
Feb 20, 2018
17,150
41,361
Reactive tbh.
My first post in this thread should have garnered a proper response yet you get a little bit twitchy.
As per the other one who said we should be lucky cos you gave up 2 points for the murdered coach you can Gagf as well.
Take ur medicine

He didn't say you were 'lucky', he said that we weren't that bad (as you insinuated) considering we gave up our premiership points...in light of what happened. I don't think that's an unreasonable argument. It (splitting the premiership points) was a gesture of solitude, to say that there are things far more important than footy in life. He was posting that to show that a lot of these arguments being laid on us as this 'evil side', are without merit given our long history of good operations.

You can choose to interpret that how you want, but your latest post was unprovoked and directly designed to bait and insult the GFC, and its supporters (specific reference to your 'tweakers' comment).

This kind of vitriol leads to arguments and back and forth, which this thread has actually had very little of in the past 10 or so pages (a rarity). You're disrupting that with unnecessary and rude comments that aren't adding anything to the conversation.

'Take your medicine' is yet another loaded comment, that's just trying to start something. Post reasonably, or go to the bay or your own board. Pretty simple.
 
Last edited:
Oct 20, 2004
17,112
20,904
Brisbane
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Pompey
In terms of trading in another first rounder this year, I reckon the best bet is the Dogs 13.

WC 2020 1st + 33 would go close to getting 13+48

13&14 to Geelong
I can't see the Dogs entertaining that. If West Coast adds Kelly, they're probably top-four finishers again - and so you're talking about a pick which is (after all the FA compo, academy bids, etc etc) roughly around p18 anyway.
 
Sep 15, 2007
50,371
46,606
Where i need to be
AFL Club
Geelong
Anyway I know for a fact that geelong supporters are openly abusing TK and his family via social media, super unethical I reckon ;)
Same with every other big name that left a club whilst at the peak of their powers. There will always be some of those supporters. Dont pretend it didnt happen with judd.
 

Free Agent

Norm Smith Medallist
May 25, 2017
5,396
7,237
AFL Club
West Coast
Adelaide received pick 9, pick 28 and Dean Gore for Dangerfield who was the best player in the comp at the time and 25years old.

Sound similar to me.

Eagles should give them pick 14, 23 and Chris Masten.

Done and if Geelong don't like it tough. You get what you give and you gave Adelaide this. Hypocrisy the way they have gone about it last few years in regard to Tim Kelly. Hopefully other teams are taking notice of this and refuse to deal with them in future trades. Horrible team to be dealing with.

We should just let Kelly go to draft and work it out there if Geelong continue being two faced.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Shadow89

Cancelled
10k Posts AFL Fantasy Div 6+ Winner 2021
Feb 20, 2018
17,150
41,361
Adelaide recived pick 9, pick 28 and Dean Gore for Dangerfield who was the best player in the comp at the time and 25years old.

Sound similar to me.

Eagles should give them pick 14, 23 and Chris Masten.

Done and if Geelong don't like it tough. You get what you give and you gave Adelaide this. Hypocrisy the way they have gone about it last few years in regard to Tim Kelly. Hopefully other teams are taking notice of this and refuse to deal with them in future trades. Horrible team to be dealing with.

We should just let Kelly go to draft and work it out there if Geelong continue being two faced.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

This has already been covered more times than I can count. 14 and 23 aren't the same as 9 and 28. Masten isn't a listed player you can trade anymore. Treloar, Shiel, Neale, Dangerfield are the benchmarks. Dangerfield at the low end, Treloar at the high end, and then somewhere in the middle.

We were known as the best team to deal with, before this whole Kelly fiasco. You need to stop with the overarching statements. It's been done to death and adds nothing to this thread. Most WC and Geelong supporters on here are pretty in line now with what is fair.
 
Apr 29, 2005
14,314
24,929
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
I can't see the Dogs entertaining that. If West Coast adds Kelly, they're probably top-four finishers again - and so you're talking about a pick which is (after all the FA compo, academy bids, etc etc) roughly around p18 anyway.

Even if its 18, Dogs still win points wise.

And they are keen for points for next years draft from what I've been reading. Don't think its a definite no anyway
 

Shadow89

Cancelled
10k Posts AFL Fantasy Div 6+ Winner 2021
Feb 20, 2018
17,150
41,361
that's not shafted for Brandon Ellis

More the pay scale, tbh. He's earning 550-600K with the Suns (apparently). Motlop garnered an end of 1st rounder, as did Lycett. Both same sort of ilk. I never thought he was worth an end of 1st, but I did think given everything, that he'd be worth a mid second (25-30). End of second is pretty bad, considering other deals that have gone through.

And I'm no large fan of Richmond either.
 
Oct 20, 2004
17,112
20,904
Brisbane
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Pompey
Adelaide received pick 9, pick 28 and Dean Gore for Dangerfield who was the best player in the comp at the time and 25years old.
No, he wasn't the best player in the comp at the time - that was clearly Fyfe. Danger was very good, but he wasn't stratospheric until 2016.

Anyway, I will happily agree that 9, 28 and Gore for Danger + 50 was an absolute steal, but the logic that because we got Danger for less than his worth as a player, we therefore lose our autonomy over accepting a value on Kelly is, well, strange.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Apr 29, 2005
14,314
24,929
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
More the pay scale, tbh. He's earning 550-600K with the Suns (apparently). Motlop garnered an end of 1st rounder, as did Lycett. Both same sort of ilk. I never thought he was worth an end of 1st, but I did think given everything, that he'd be worth a mid second (25-30). End of second is pretty bad, considering other deals that have gone through.

And I'm no large fan of Richmond either.

No I get it, its more rules on the run from the AFL. But as far as that goes, its one of their rare good calls I reckon.

They've taken into account the extra GC has to pay to get someone to go up there. Is it fair by the book, absolutely not. But its definitely fair value for a player like Ellis.
 

Shadow89

Cancelled
10k Posts AFL Fantasy Div 6+ Winner 2021
Feb 20, 2018
17,150
41,361
No I get it, its more rules on the run from the AFL. But as far as that goes, its one of their rare good calls I reckon.

They've taken into account the extra GC has to pay to get someone to go up there. Is it fair by the book, absolutely not. But its definitely fair value for a player like Ellis.

Absolutely. But they've hamstrung themselves by offering up ridiculous compo (both ways) in recent years. Literally the only thing I agree with Barrett about - his reference to the AFL's '11 secret herbs and spices formula.'
 
Sep 15, 2007
50,371
46,606
Where i need to be
AFL Club
Geelong
Adelaide received pick 9, pick 28 and Dean Gore for Dangerfield who was the best player in the comp at the time and 25years old.

Sound similar to me.

Eagles should give them pick 14, 23 and Chris Masten.

Done and if Geelong don't like it tough. You get what you give and you gave Adelaide this. Hypocrisy the way they have gone about it last few years in regard to Tim Kelly. Hopefully other teams are taking notice of this and refuse to deal with them in future trades. Horrible team to be dealing with.

We should just let Kelly go to draft and work it out there if Geelong continue being two faced.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Best player in the comp? He hadnt even won a brownlow at that point. Fyfe was regarded as the best. Kelly got more votes this season then dangerfield had at the crows. Kelly also has significant further upside given its only his second season.

Danger was a free agent. He could walk if geelong was not a nice guy and willing to trade.

Geelong aint being two faced. Being completely up front. Kelly is one of the best mids in the comp and west coast must pay slight unders. Not massive ridiculous unders.
 
More the pay scale, tbh. He's earning 550-600K with the Suns (apparently). Motlop garnered an end of 1st rounder, as did Lycett. Both same sort of ilk. I never thought he was worth an end of 1st, but I did think given everything, that he'd be worth a mid second (25-30). End of second is pretty bad, considering other deals that have gone through.

And I'm no large fan of Richmond either.

There is no band for mid second compo i think its either a pick next to your current R2 or end R2 which for richmond are one and the same.
 

djrasta213

Debutant
May 13, 2018
68
133
AFL Club
West Coast
He is coming home
 

Attachments

  • 48C9B4FE-958F-4F14-89D9-C7A60EF73303.png
    48C9B4FE-958F-4F14-89D9-C7A60EF73303.png
    646.5 KB · Views: 183

Free Agent

Norm Smith Medallist
May 25, 2017
5,396
7,237
AFL Club
West Coast
No, he wasn't the best player in the comp at the time - that was clearly Fyfe. Danger was very good, but he wasn't stratospheric until 2016.

Anyway, I will happily agree that 9, 28 and Gore for Danger + 50 was an absolute steal, but the logic that because we got Danger for less than his worth as a player, we therefore lose our autonomy over accepting a value on Kelly is, well, strange.
No it's not. Every teams decision over the years is looked upon and never forgotten. If a deal is done on the grounds of being unreasonable then other clubs do remember. It's about having respect with trading. Think Geelong have lost that last few season.

You knew you had the upper hand then with Danger and gave them that.
Well I don't see no difference here. We will give you pick 14, 23 and Tom Cole.

It's enough or Kelly goes to the draft.


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
Jun 30, 2014
29,143
34,097
The Winchester
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur, East Side Hawks
No it's not. Every teams decision over the years is looked upon and never forgotten. If a deal is done on the grounds of being unreasonable then other clubs do remember. It's about having respect with trading. Think Geelong have lost that last few season.

You knew you had the upper hand then with Danger and gave them that.
Well I don't see no difference here. We will give you pick 14, 23 and Tom Cole.

It's enough or Kelly goes to the draft.


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Everything was facilitated by Noble before he handed over to John Reid’s son who is now our list manager.
Everything was handled by the third day. Without tie ins.
Noble and the Geelong list manager took everything aside and got it done.
Our first rounder was Milera.
He’ll be good if we play him where he shines.
The player we delisted but Geelong like to extend draft recruitment to increase leverage
Then there was a swap of third round.
Danger won the Brownlow the following season.
I’d say going down the similar paths is nearing equanimity
 
Back