List Mgmt. Tim Kelly remains a Cat for 2019

[Son_Of_God29]

Take a look at this guys - this is a panel of Eagles fans prior to 2017 Draft.

All they wanted was Tim -

 

[ChookNorris]

Take a look at this guys - this is a panel of Eagles fans prior to 2017 Draft.

All they wanted was Tim -

Interesting how they said WCE kept giving him something to work on, can understand why he might not be keen to go there, led along for 5 years...

 

[Son_Of_God29]

Interesting how they said WCE kept giving him something to work on, can understand why he might not be keen to go there, led along for 5 years...

Yeah that was definitely what I took out of it - if they were working with him for 5 years and kept overlooking him WCE clearly didn't rate him

Obviously thought they could hide him from us

 

[dazbroncos]

Take a look at this guys - this is a panel of Eagles fans prior to 2017 Draft.

All they wanted was Tim -

Worked with TK for 5 years and clearly knew about him all that time, let him train with them or at least work on deficiencies with them.

And never took him.

Time after time... Cyndi Lauper style...

And then Miers even got a look in there too and we Wellsy got both of them .... 24 and 50 odd....

WC podcast... You have been WELLSED!

FYI - Simon Lloyd also suggested that TK has told him directly, and recently, that he loves it here at Geelong - and much like Narkle suggested when he re-signed, that the culture of what GFC is about and how they include and get around players not just as players but as people is a massive plus.

Go Catters

 

[Turbocat]

Interesting how they said WCE kept giving him something to work on, can understand why he might not be keen to go there, led along for 5 years...

Put him on your list as a Rookie and then tell him what to work on..

The guys seem to know their local product... although id like to have seen them say X with P1 , Y with P2 cause its OK to say TK ..and WC would have taken him if we had not.. even one guy said to use their first pick on the kid that went Saints Hunter Clarke. Interesting our kid Miers got a mention,

Nice of them to drop a few local names
Kyron Hayden?
https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/lion-kyron-hayden-takes-quantum-leap-toward-afl-draft-ng-b88650099z
Callan England
https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl-draft/callan-england-draft-highlights-bc-5597423627001

Dont know the ruckman Aaron Redlands? I think he may mean Aaron Redhead.. he actually sounds worth a look
https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/af...he-fire-to-succeed-at-afl-level-ng-b88629704z

 

[Turbocat]

Woekd with TK for 5 years and clearly knew about him all that time, let him train with them or at least work on deficiencies with them.

And never took him.

Time after time... Cyndi Lauper style...

And then Miers even got a look in there too and we Wellsy got both of them .... 24 and 50 odd....

WC podcast... You have been WELLSED!

FYI - Simon Lloyd also suggested that TK has told him directly, and recently, that he loves it here at Geelong - and much like Narkle suggested when he re-signed, that the culture of what GFC is about and how they include and get around players not just as players but as people is a massive plus.

Go Catters

As I said.. tell me who has been on their Rookie list for the last 5 years... cant find a spot for him? WC , and all clubs have done it.. probably under valued their local product. If he was close and and being given stuff to work on.. they should have had him with their last pick or a rookie pick in 2016.

Daz... I have said it numerous times.. great he loves Geelong but nothing says love like pen and paper. It may be a deciding factor as it was for Narkle..but TK has many more considerations.

What I expect on our board is a high level of respect for him and his family. If you want a template that I dont want .. have a read of the the Lynch thread on the GC board. They are a young club and every player leaving is like a personal affront to them. If TK does go its for the obvious reason..and I expect we can understand that and absorb that.

 

[Rosso]

I loved that game show

Oink oink my good man.

 

[Turbocat]

Oink oink my good man.

in humour there is truth ... do you want to keep it ..or do you want to risk everything and be a pig..

Nothing to do with TK of course

 

[Hinkley29]

Take a look at this guys - this is a panel of Eagles fans prior to 2017 Draft.

All they wanted was Tim -

What the hell was that?

 

[Hamingja]

The Eagles ‘might’ get close enough (but not actually win it) to a Flag this year that their frustration at not drafting Kelly will be palpable. If I was them I would not even bring up his name. What a lost opportunity!

Cats beats Eagles in the GF with Kelly as norm smith

 

[Turbocat]

What the hell was that?

It looks like the equivalent of a BF Podcast before the draft...

 

[FredLeDeux]

It looks like the equivalent of a BF Podcast before the draft...

In WA they call it pedal radio.

 

[catswhiskers]

Why on earth would they gaurantee him a trade home when he wants to go. That would be stupid.

Because if his wife (and hence kids) find life in Geelong too difficult without the family support they are used to, Tim would find it hard if not impossible to stay. The "preseason draft " [for out of contact players and free agents] still exists it seems - the following article I found explains it was available last year (despite the header).

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-27/no-preseason-draft-as-clubs-get-ready-for-rookie-fest

Kelly could just nominate and only WCE/Freo would take him. None of the others would touch him knowing his situation. Tim would walk and I think rightly so.

If Geelong agree to trading him if his family find life too hard over here - should it get to that point - the worst outcome from there is that we receive the best of what a bidding duel between the two Western clubs would provide. Better than nothing.

Its a 50:50 thing IMO. Having raised a family of 4 kids in W.A and away from the family support structures in Vic. I know it is not easy - but it does become less of a problem as the friendship groups expand. Hopefully time will work in our favour.

 

[Turbocat]

i don't often hop in to this thread other than to read.

First off, I'll add my 2 bobs worth. What a player. He has it all. The fact he is at his best at the end of games puts him right up their with many of the big names over the years. If he can continue in this vein he will be top dozen competition mid.

Second the talk of Geelong offering an extension would be sound for player and club if Kelly signs now- as long as Geelong have "guaranteed" Tim that he will be traded home when he feels the need. This is normal transmission for Geelong anyway so that guarantee would be quite believable IMO.

The new contract would give Tim say 3 more years guaranteed pay (increased considerably) and removes the possiblility that serious injury (this year or next) will dampen his ongoing prospects. We have seen what injury can to do to the most promising young players at our club.

Geelong get an in contract player for three years meaning that a fair deal would be needed to release him.

Assuming he plateaus from here a top ten pick or a needed player (say Darcy from Freo or another quality developing Vic kid from WCE) would be fair in my opinion.

If he continues to improve (becomes top dozen competition mid/forward) that price would be a bit higher. Add to that above an early second rounder (to return the pick we invested in him)

Geelong really would not need to guarantee a trade... players generally know that the contract system is weighed in their favour. Its a method to ensure the financial future is secure.. and that very few players get prevented from moving based on their current contract. The concept of the player moving relies on more than just Geelong guarantying they will trade him if he is unhappy.

It would seem that even his manager acknowledges that Geelong has been fair, that Kelly is more than just happy here meaning he is happy with how Geelong have treated him and his family... so id say if we are going to encourage signing with addendum's , we would simply say that we would do what we could to get a deal done if he felt it was imperative that he go back to wa etc. In saying that the WA clubs that are pushing for him to go home should be willing to help to get him home. Just how much care do they really have for your families well being?
IF the WA clubs are legitimate in their interest and welfare ie.. are willing to offer a payment that reflects you as an A Grade players then they too should be willing to pay that in trade.
We value highly... if they value you highly then they will need to play their part.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Geelong really would not need to guarantee a trade... players generally know that the contract system is weighed in their favour. Its a method to ensure the financial future is secure.. and that very few players get prevented from moving based on their current contract. The concept of the player moving relies on more than just Geelong guarantying they will trade him if he is unhappy.

It would seem that even his manager acknowledges that Geelong has been fair, that Kelly is more than just happy here meaning he is happy with how Geelong have treated him and his family... so id say if we are going to encourage signing with addendum's , we would simply say that we would do what we could to get a deal done if he felt it was imperative that he go back to wa etc. In saying that the WA clubs that are pushing for him to go home should be willing to help to get him home. Just how much care do they really have for your families well being?
IF the WA clubs are legitimate in their interest and welfare ie.. are willing to offer a payment that reflects you as an A Grade players then they too should be willing to pay that in trade.
We value highly... if they value you highly then they will need to play their part.

It's against the rules to guarantee a trade back to WA, either formally or informally.
Club and officials and player would be penalised if such a deal ever came to light.

 

[Hinkley29]

It looks like the equivalent of a BF Podcast before the draft...

The guy second from the left was making me feel seasick with his swivelling on his chair.

 

[The Bandwagon]

Because if his wife (and hence kids) find life in Geelong too difficult without the family support they are used to, Tim would find it hard if not impossible to stay. The "preseason draft " [for out of contact players and free agents] still exists it seems - the following article I found explains it was available last year (despite the header).

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-27/no-preseason-draft-as-clubs-get-ready-for-rookie-fest

Kelly could just nominate and only WCE/Freo would take him. None of the others would touch him knowing his situation. Tim would walk and I think rightly so.

If Geelong agree to trading him if his family find life too hard over here - should it get to that point - the worst outcome from there is that we receive the best of what a bidding duel between the two Western clubs would provide. Better than nothing.

Its a 50:50 thing IMO. Having raised a family of 4 kids in W.A and away from the family support structures in Vic. I know it is not easy - but it does become less of a problem as the friendship groups expand. Hopefully time will work in our favour.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/new-recruit-tim-kelly-fits-the-cats-to-a-t-20180307-p4z39r.html

For several footy seasons their days had been long with Caitlin looking after the toddler while Kelly put in 14-hour days starting with work, and finishing at football training three days a week.

In 2017 the hard work began to pay off as Kelly finished second in the Sandover Medal and helped South Fremantle to the preliminary final.

But ... Geelong?

The couple backed each other to make things work if they had to pack up and move a little over 3000 kilometres away from their nearest and dearest to be at an AFL club.

Geelong did their homework and were well aware that if they recruited Kelly they would be recruiting a family, and used pick No.24 to land the mature-aged recruit.

The move was significant but one the duo were prepared to make if the chance came.

"My situation is very different to a lot of people. I have got my own little family now," Kelly said.

"I have got my beautiful partner and I have got my three boys and as long as I have got them with me I don't really care where I am. I have got that mindset."

They backed each other to make things work is a striking quote for mine.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/new-recruit-tim-kelly-fits-the-cats-to-a-t-20180307-p4z39r.html

 

[Down at K Park]

Tim probably loves being away from the in-laws

 

[Turbocat]

It's against the rules to guarantee a trade back to WA, either formally or informally.
Club and officials and player would be penalised if such a deal ever came to light.

just as well I have guaranteed nothing other than if something come to pass we would try to do the right thing by him

 

[dazbroncos]

Just reading the stuff floating around, im not sure there is much more the GFC can do to make it work.

Clearly TK loves the club, playing here and living here and has no real desire to leave.

The home front is the point of contention and fair enough too.

That said, it seems the club have really attempted to step in where possible and make the transition easy. And it seems both TK and family are appreciative of that too.

Is it enough? Time will tell but I dont think whatever the result it will be made after a lack of effort to make it work.

Go Catters

 

[cats_09]

It's against the rules to guarantee a trade back to WA, either formally or informally.
Club and officials and player would be penalised if such a deal ever came to light.

After the trouble that Adelaide & Tippet got into with their side deal on Tippets last Crows contract (re-sign now and then when you are next out of contract we will trade you to the club of your choice), you would hope that clubs would not be stupid enough to even contemplate something similar.

 

[Daniel McL]

 

[BigCat1]

You make a fair case ..but the fact is the best chance to get a Hawkins replacement is have the earliest choice in draft we can get..especially in a better draft.

The irony of looking at the success or lack of it .. of early picked players is that they mostly go to clubs that are poor clubs ..its why they have early picks.. and most agree that just as important as the players talent is the development. A few of the ones named have been disappointing , some have been unlucky and some the jury is still out its early... is there players you can think of that were missed or taken later that have been better than than these early picks? Sav looks promising for eg.

The Kings certainly have the rep and Max (the knee) has a ripper set of hands.. but even he is not perfect from the little I have seen. He will need work on kicking... so if we miss them or him there are others.

The one thing I agree with is the sentiment each year is heightened .. this kid is the ducks quack etc.. just pay what ever to get him. And this year is not different.. Lukosius is reputed to be the best for a decade , we have the Kings and there are a couple of others that will be there later.
And as usual someone will fail .. so I agree we dont dive into the stupid pool to just get a early pick.. but we do need to target early picks imo. Hawkins was a early pick in all bar number , we built our previous era on the foundation of early picks ..and its whats lacking on our list this time round.

Not so much overlooked but in an era where recruiting is meant to be "never better" the top 10 picks for tall has been nothing short of atrocious. Actually worse than that. The odds would logically suggest you have a better chance but it just hasn't played out. Be brave not to take a small with an early pick. Hence why I suggested a cluster of top 25 picks. Still high enough to get quality. That strategy means you much more likely to miss the Gun Mid.

The are better talls since 2010 have come outside to top 10 in Curnow, Tom McDonald, Ben Brown, Jack Darling, Tom Lynch, Hipwood, Jenkins, Grundy, MCGovern, Harris Andrews, Lever,

I should note that Jeremy Cameron and Jesse Hogan are fair players who technically weren't drafted

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Not so much overlooked but in an era where recruiting is meant to be "never better" the top 10 picks for tall has been nothing short of atrocious. Actually worse than that. The odds would logically suggest you have a better chance but it just hasn't played out. Be brave not to take a small with an early pick. Hence why I suggested a cluster of top 25 picks. Still high enough to get quality. That strategy means you much more likely to miss the Gun Mid.

The are better talls since 2010 have come outside to top 10 in Curnow, Tom McDonald, Ben Brown, Jack Darling, Tom Lynch, Hipwood, Jenkins, Grundy, MCGovern, Harris Andrews, Lever,

I should note that Jeremy Cameron and Jesse Hogan are fair players who technically weren't drafted

Those stats are misleading because Melbourne traded picks 3 and 12 for Hogan Cameron was outside the draft (would have been top 10 if he was in it) Hipwood went later than he would have if not an academy player, Brown was a mature age player overlooked in 3 drafts then taken at age 21. Jenkins was an ex basketballer who didn't come from normal talent pathways, Lynch (Adel) is not a true KPF McGovern was drafted as an overager McDonald was drafted as a defender and Darling slid due to off field issues as did Curnow (run in with police just before the draft). Stats over the last 10-15 years overwhelmingly suggest that of u18 players in their draft year the majority of A grade KPFs are drafted in the first round and most quite high in the first round (top 10 picks).

 

[Turbocat]

Not so much overlooked but in an era where recruiting is meant to be "never better" the top 10 picks for tall has been nothing short of atrocious. Actually worse than that. The odds would logically suggest you have a better chance but it just hasn't played out. Be brave not to take a small with an early pick. Hence why I suggested a cluster of top 25 picks. Still high enough to get quality. That strategy means you much more likely to miss the Gun Mid.

The are better talls since 2010 have come outside to top 10 in Curnow, Tom McDonald, Ben Brown, Jack Darling, Tom Lynch, Hipwood, Jenkins, Grundy, MCGovern, Harris Andrews, Lever,

I should note that Jeremy Cameron and Jesse Hogan are fair players who technically weren't drafted

Picks are just choices. The worst clubs get the earliest choices. Statistically the most reliable draft pick is an inside mid..talls are far harder to nail.. as they are the slower developing player. One doesn't do better picking less talented players but different clubs are better at developing players. Unless you want to target an in system player... like a 2mp etc.. then getting the earliest choice gives one the best chance to pick the player you prefer. The player you have studied and identified.
Sometimes one does have to wonder why some players drift and other rise like pavlova. Although every year one hears the talk about this kid or that kid the talls this year have been talked up for a while .. so its a good year to have an earlier choice .. I don't see the logic of having two later picks if the player you want is highly fancied..it will just ensure you miss the player that you really wanted or perhaps need. The slider this year appears to be Williams and if he is there when our pick arrives it would be disappointing to go past him.. although you could argue there is a good chance he could be like some of those names you mentioned. No player is 100% certain and Williams has a fair bit development still to go.