List Mgmt. Tim Kelly remains a Cat for 2019

[Herne Hill Hammer]

We have danger, Mengelola and both Selwood in our list and we only going to hang Kelly for his kicking. At least Kelly has good kicking technique which suggests laziness more then skill as to why his kicking is bad. It’s redeemable. Unlike the others who are 30 or nearly 30 and still sh*** kicks.

How many of the others are going to be chased as hard as is likely from the WA clubs? How many of them are from WA? How many of them have a partner and young children from WA?

A good fit ruckman is Geelong's most valuable player.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Am I seriously reading suggestions of Duncan to be traded?

I swear in the "Joel & Captaincy..." thread that there was some discussion of Duncan as our potential next captain

Reading the 2 different opinions it seems that he might become one of the more divisive players on our list

That would be good if I'd ever posted in the Joel & Captaincy thread let alone read it.

I've never been a massive Duncan fan. People in here will bang on about his kicking efficiency and throw hi p some stats published in the HUN that backs it up.

I don't know exactly what they deem an effective kick but too many times over the journey I've seen him turn the ball over at crucial times in critical areas of the ground or he's had a kick touched or partially smothered that puts us under enormous pressure and kills our momentum.

Mackie used to do it too but eventually he pretty much got rid of it out of his game.

I have been consistent with this in any number of threads for the last few years.

 

[Landgraft]

Tell me one under 25 who is better? Makes him the most valuable player on the list.

That is a weirdly specific measure... almost like you're trying to cherry pick the data. Being a midfielder I think limits his potential value, everyone loads up on midfielders at all times so its a fairly replaceable position. Someone like Sav as our only young kpf/ruck option may well be more valuable in terms of the opportunity cost of sourcing a replacement.

 

[00VicWard001]

That would be good if I'd ever posted in the Joel & Captaincy thread let alone read it.

I've never been a massive Duncan fan. People in here will bang on about his kicking efficiency and throw hi p some stats published in the HUN that backs it up.

I don't know exactly what they deem an effective kick but too many times over the journey I've seen him turn the ball over at crucial times in critical areas of the ground or he's had a kick touched or partially smothered that puts us under enormous pressure and kills our momentum.

Mackie used to do it too but eventually he pretty much got rid of it out of his game.

I have been consistent with this in any number of threads for the last few years.

I would package Duncan and Kelly for Kennedy OR NicNat (in a purely mercenary hypothetical sense).

 

[BUSTER29]

I would package Duncan and Kelly for Kennedy OR NicNat (in a purely mercenary hypothetical sense).

Natanui will be helpful too us sitting on the sidelines for all of the 2019 season.

 

[00VicWard001]

Natanui will be helpful too us sitting on the sidelines for all of the 2019 season.

Perfect. He's exactly what we need.

 

[Mahlepi]

First post I've ever read from you that was in clear English and had no spelling mistakes. Good work.

It says a lot that you read all my posts. Insane much.

 

[Seeds]

How many of the others are going to be chased as hard as is likely from the WA clubs? How many of them are from WA? How many of them have a partner and young children from WA?

A good fit ruckman is Geelong's most valuable player.

Um we chased Dangerfield. Could of kept our first rounder and later pick. It’s no different to Kelly except we will probably be short changed in trading Kelly unless we wait another year.

He is truly elite despite his kicking. He doesn’t just get touches but picks the ball up cleanly in the wet and easily shimmy’s past players to break lines. He is absolute gold. Earlier in the season many posters on here were wetting their pants at how awesome some of Kelly’s passes to Hawkins and Menzel were. His kicking is fixable. Trade him when he has been kicking poorly wise and we get unders.

 

[Seeds]

I would package Duncan and Kelly for Kennedy OR NicNat (in a purely mercenary hypothetical sense).

That is a horrific trade. Kennedy is in his 30s and Nic Nat is seriously injury prone. It would be horrific to trade one for either of them.

 

[Seeds]

That is a weirdly specific measure... almost like you're trying to cherry pick the data. Being a midfielder I think limits his potential value, everyone loads up on midfielders at all times so its a fairly replaceable position. Someone like Sav as our only young kpf/ruck option may well be more valuable in terms of the opportunity cost of sourcing a replacement.

Fine I will be less specific. When you multiply talent by the number of years we are likely to get from each player then Kelly would come out on top and is thus the most valuable player in the team. The thing about positions is inaccurate. Yes their may be more midfielders going around but you also need more midfielders then any other position. You only need two key forwards and only 1 elite. Only one good ruckman and he doesn’t even need to be elite.. But at least 6-7 good mids of which 3 have to be genuinely elite. Are you telling me Dangerfield, Martin, Judd, Ablett, Fyfe haven’t been some of the most valuable players in the last ten years?

 

[Landgraft]

Fine I will be less specific. When you multiply talent by the number of years we are likely to get from each player then Kelly would come out on top and is thus the most valuable player in the team. The thing about positions is inaccurate. Yes their may be more midfielders going around but you also need more midfielders then any other position. You only need two key forwards and only 1 elite. Only one good ruckman and he doesn’t even need to be elite.. But at least 6-7 good mids of which 3 have to be genuinely elite. Are you telling me Dangerfield, Martin, Judd, Ablett, Fyfe haven’t been some of the most valuable players in the last ten years?

Ah yes, the essential talent*years equation. Don't talk such rot.

If Kelly was a generational player then sure, compare him to Dangerfield, Martin, Judd, Ablett, Fyfe. Because what makes them so valuable is they bring exceptional and irreplaceable capabilities to their position. Kelly does not do that as of yet.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Very interesting I did see North has offered him like everyone else 1mil west coast offered around 700k cannot be quoted on that read it on big footy though. If that was the case we need to get a deal done at the end of this year or we lose him for nothing after his rookie deal expires. His Value will be highest in this offseason. It's difficult because you only have one year of leverage players will be professional and play it out so you can't ask the world for a 20 gamer.

Fremantle - would ask for brayshaw & pick ( get knocked back ), Cerra and a pick ( getting warmer ). Then I would target Luke Ryan perhaps a first round pick swap. Or Luke Ryan plus Fremantle first-round pick Swap.

West Coast - Packages around Dom Sheed or Liam Duggan. Scott Lycett would be asked for although I do not think its very likely. You would Need a first rounder or future first rounders with this deal. Tom Barrass would be another name I would throw into the conversation.

North Melbourne - LDU, Jy Simpkin, Mason Wood, Brayden Pruess lets see how bad they want him LDU Simpkin deals would need to include picks. Although for a mason wood packaged with Pruess you might get some interest in a straight trade.

Very Difficult to gauge with only one year on his deal and a lot of these packages are going to be a bit unknown dependant on the pick. Although if he doesn't resign this year I would be looking to move him !

 

[00VicWard001]

That is a horrific trade. Kennedy is in his 30s and Nic Nat is seriously injury prone. It would be horrific to trade one for either of them.

I didn't know Kennedy was that old. I would still swap for Natanui.

 

[Landgraft]

Very interesting I did see North has offered him like everyone else 1mil west coast offered around 700k cannot be quoted on that read it on big footy though. If that was the case we need to get a deal done at the end of this year or we lose him for nothing after his rookie deal expires. His Value will be highest in this offseason. It's difficult because you only have one year of leverage players will be professional and play it out so you can't ask the world for a 20 gamer.

Fremantle - would ask for brayshaw & pick ( get knocked back ), Cerra and a pick ( getting warmer ). Then I would target Luke Ryan perhaps a first round pick swap. Or Luke Ryan plus Fremantle first-round pick Swap.

West Coast - Packages around Dom Sheed or Liam Duggan. Scott Lycett would be asked for although I do not think its very likely. You would Need a first rounder or future first rounders with this deal. Tom Barrass would be another name I would throw into the conversation.

North Melbourne - LDU, Jy Simpkin, Mason Wood, Brayden Pruess lets see how bad they want him LDU Simpkin deals would need to include picks. Although for a mason wood packaged with Pruess you might get some interest in a straight trade.

Very Difficult to gauge with only one year on his deal and a lot of these packages are going to be a bit unknown dependant on the pick. Although if he doesn't resign this year I would be looking to move him !

West Coasts 700k/year is the 1.5m over three deal - basically he'd play next year on his current draftee contract for * all, then get paid 700k/year over 2020-2021.

 

[Ray Donovan]

West Coasts 700k/year is the 1.5m over three deal - basically he'd play next year on his current draftee contract for **** all, then get paid 700k/year over 2020-2021.

Hmm can Frank Costa do that thing outside the salary Cap. ?

 

[Live in hope]

TK - a wonderful player but no left foot means that a smart tagger can limit him by running on right side.

If we are going to trade must be for a very good uninjured ruck or fast players with great foot skills.

 

[Landgraft]

Hmm can Frank Costa do that thing outside the salary Cap. ?

I don't think it'll be money that makes his decision anyway... he'll be well paid if he wants to stay, or if he wants to go. Just depends on his family (or if someone does make a huge offer, but I haven't heard of any yet...)

 

[TheYid]

Duncan is our team's barometer. When we play him in his best position (midfield) and he gets over 25+ possies we win. He's IMHO in our top five players.

 

[Seeds]

I didn't know Kennedy was that old. I would still swap for Natanui.

Still stupid. nicNat is coming off a major injury and is 28. Kelly has just turned 24. Kelly’s trade value on his own is much higher then NicNat. NicNat would at best be worth a pick around 15-20. He only has 3-4 years left at best and high risk of less given his injury. He also has never reached truly elite, he ain’t Max Gawn.

 

[Seeds]

Duncan is our team's barometer. When we play him in his best position (midfield) and he gets over 25+ possies we win. He's IMHO in our top five players.

Debateable. I think Kelly and Stewart has passed him making Duncan around 6-8.

 

[00VicWard001]

Still stupid. nicNat is coming off a major injury and is 28. Kelly has just turned 24. Kelly’s trade value on his own is much higher then NicNat. NicNat would at best be worth a pick around 15-20. He only has 3-4 years left at best and high risk of less given his injury. He also has never reached truly elite, he ain’t Max Gawn.

I concede.

 

[Turbocat]

Debateable. I think Kelly and Stewart has passed him making Duncan around 6-8.

who would you have as our top10?

 

[TheYid]

Debateable. I think Kelly and Stewart has passed him making Duncan around 6-8.

Yep. Debateable. I wouldn't think Kelly is there yet.

 

[Seeds]

Yep. Debateable. I wouldn't think Kelly is there yet.

Kelly can do stuff that Duncan can’t. Like pick a ball up cleanly in the wet whilst not losing stride. His potential is a level above Duncan’s and his output is already about there. Save for the kicking of course.

 

[Seeds]

who would you have as our top10?

Danger, Hawkins, Selwood, Stewart, Kelly, Duncan, Ablett, Blicavs (as a defender), Henderson (when fit with a preseason under his belt), Menegola.

Menzel on talent when he has his good fitness days would be 5-10 but they are rare so won’t put him in.