Uncontracted Tim Kelly

Hawks_4478

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Jan 19, 2018
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I don’t understand all the fuss around the kelly trade if he requests to go to west coast again at the end of the year. WCE will hand over 2 first rounders for him; this years first rounder and a future first rounder from next year. There may be some steak knives here and there, but it’s pretty simple. I don’t understand why people need to keep talking about it all the time and make it into a bigger drama than it really is.
 

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West World

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May 18, 2018
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Not sure he used the word compassionate. They were having a child but pretty sure he just blatantly said he only wanted to play for us.
Oh he definately raised the middle finger to the Eagles and was clear NFW would he consider them as an option.

Pretty sure Hogan did the same.

Lobbe though did not. Recall he said whoever offers me the best deal I will play for.
 

Scotland

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May 5, 2006
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What if Kelly is happy to join other WA club, meets with both and gets offered significantly different contracts? Potentially one club could offer an inferior contract but a superior trade...
 

CM9000

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Aug 19, 2016
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So nothing directly quoted, just a lot of reportedlys and understoods?
I think it should be noted that all the links you have say "reportedly or understood" which more than likely means they are incorrect. The article I linked earlier doesn't state that, it put's it as pretty black and white.
20/22 & 2019 pick 30+ does seem too cheap to be real, but also consider that no actual party to the trade negotiations has mentioned what the offers were. Just media talking heads at the time repeating whispers in the echo chamber. How often are the media completely wide of the mark?

I have no idea what was put on the table in trade for Kelly. All I know is that what was offered last year, whatever that was, wasn't accepted and that at face value this year he has two suitors who will try to outdo each other. Whether that nets the cats a fair deal or not I don't know, all I know is one WA club misses out, one WA club walks away thinking they overpaid, and the cats walk away thinking they got dudded. Give it 3 years we'll know who played it well and who didn't.
I don't think the choice of words should dictate the truthfulness of the articles, actually. I think that's just the standard word use when reporting about trades where the exact details aren't stated by the list managers - it doesn't mean it's all completely baseless.

Let me put it this way: there are multiple sources from around the time of the trade (a day after, in fact) that indicate what Geelong requested was 20, 22 and a future first. This is consistent throughout the articles I've listed, plus those hosting the stream stated that this was the case. In comparison, one HS article that directly quotes Chris Scott six months after the fact with a conflicting report. Is Chris Scott a greater authority on the whole thing? Definitely, but the timeframe does cast some doubt over it, and multiple reports a day after the trade fell through all state the same thing. It's multiple sources (all consistent) close to the event in question verse Chris Scott in a HS article six months after.

All those article could've had the same source, they don't say where they got it, but different media outlets reported the same thing a day after. The consistency does mean there might be some truth to it.

And, as @CatsToTheFuture himself said, doesn't 20, 22 and a 2019 second (with your third coming back) seem like unders for Kelly at the time, considering the stance of your club? I can absolutely guarantee you we would've done that, because that was apparently what we offered. You were asking for an "outstanding deal" (as your list manager said), and you preferred not to give TK up altogether, so I'm not sure the claims in the HS article are consistent with how you operated during the trade period. I very clearly remember during the stream that Brady Rawlings kept leaving then entering the meeting room to adjust our offer on the last day, and it went that way till the last minute - we didn't come to a deal where we just needed to pull the trigger until the final moments of the trade period. And by "final moments", I literally meant the last 30-20 minutes. Geelong didn't come to a decision until there was less than half an hour left - the HS article makes it sound like what requested was standing for longer than that.
 

Overhang

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Let me put it this way: there are multiple sources from around the time of the trade (a day after, in fact) that indicate what Geelong requested was 20, 22 and a future first. This is consistent throughout the articles I've listed, plus those hosting the stream stated that this was the case.
It's quite possible that both are true, Geelong may well have requested that and let it play out in the media that they were after the future first hoping WC would cave, you don't start with your final offer. The article in the HS is reflecting on the last hour of the trade period, it's quite natural that all though Geelong wanted the future first that their final offer was for the future 2nd pick, something WC must have considered too much.
 

year of the cat

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Mar 27, 2006
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I don't disagree, but it's the red card debate all over again. Something happens, someone doesn't like it and there are claims that 'it shouldn't be like this' and 'it's not fair'. Then nothing happens about it and it happens again in the future. On what basis should Tim Kelly be the example case and on what basis are West Coast the bad guys in (potentially) not offering as much in a trade as Freo?

Adelaide absolutely could have got a better deal trading Dangerfield to another Victorian club. Collingwood arguably could've got a better deal trading Beams to Gold Coast. West Coast arguably could've got a better deal trading Chris Judd to another Victorian club. Etc.

If the AFL are going to do anything at all about 'homesickness' and players nominating clubs they need to do it long before trade week. But they won't.
I think the issue is similar to the tribunal - there is little consistency in value in the trades we see for the gun players. That infuriates the fans of the clubs losing their star if they don’t get (in their eyes) adequately compensated compared with a club that lost their star the year before. And then when you see GC paying a pick 3 for Weller then expectations are completely rooted!
 

Scotland

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May 5, 2006
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Gold Coast trading for Weller was a pretty unique circumstance. Plus they've already had 100 early picks. What's the best pick Stephen Wells has ever had, 7?
 

Max zero

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I think the issue is similar to the tribunal - there is little consistency in value in the trades we see for the gun players. That infuriates the fans of the clubs losing their star if they don’t get (in their eyes) adequately compensated compared with a club that lost their star the year before. And then when you see GC paying a pick 3 for Weller then expectations are completely rooted!
The fundamental issue getting the trade currency is super hard in the AFL. Freo got pick 3 for Wellar because GC had pick 3. Trading is so much easier when you have the picks.

Kelly is a gun footballer and assume he asks for a trade we will have to find some currency to trade with. We have Sydney's future 2nd this year (roughly pick 25 or so).

But without that we would probably have a pick in the mid to late teens, one in the mid 30s and then not much value. A future pick next year you would assume at least a top 8 finish so another mid teen pick. 15 ish + 17 ish enough for TK? But that wipes out our drafting for 2 years.

Its amazing that they only reason we could try a trade for TK the last two years is the FA compo from Lycett last year and the future 2nd and a bad year for Sydney this year. So we have gotten 2 picks in the early mid 20s through luck.

Imagine if TK asked for a trade and we didn't even have them?

I wish there was a way you can 'save up' picks from year to year or something.
 

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Joao

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Oh he definately raised the middle finger to the Eagles and was clear NFW would he consider them as an option.

Pretty sure Hogan did the same.

Lobbe though did not. Recall he said whoever offers me the best deal I will play for.
Struggling to see any relevance to what I posted. Did you read both my posts because if what you think you read was me having a go at the Eagles then your comprehension is poor.
 

Lunchlady Doris

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Apr 3, 2006
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Okay here is a quick little exercise to help you understand.

Imagine if the Crows were twice as rich and twice as successful as they are right now. Feels good doesn't it? That's West Coast.

Now imagine if Port were half as successful and twice as feral as they are right now. Scary thought isn't it? That's Freo.

Now with that in mind Tim Kelly wanting to play for West Coast and not Freo makes perfect sense on both a personal and professional level does it not?
Sorry, but this is not justification for Geelong handing him over for peanuts.
 

CatToTheFuture

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Aug 18, 2018
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The fundamental issue getting the trade currency is super hard in the AFL. Freo got pick 3 for Wellar because GC had pick 3. Trading is so much easier when you have the picks.

Kelly is a gun footballer and assume he asks for a trade we will have to find some currency to trade with. We have Sydney's future 2nd this year (roughly pick 25 or so).

But without that we would probably have a pick in the mid to late teens, one in the mid 30s and then not much value. A future pick next year you would assume at least a top 8 finish so another mid teen pick. 15 ish + 17 ish enough for TK? But that wipes out our drafting for 2 years.

Its amazing that they only reason we could try a trade for TK the last two years is the FA compo from Lycett last year and the future 2nd and a bad year for Sydney this year. So we have gotten 2 picks in the early mid 20s through luck.

Imagine if TK asked for a trade and we didn't even have them?

I wish there was a way you can 'save up' picks from year to year or something.
You can keep trading current year picks for future years. Randomises the outcome a bit because you don't know where they end up but if you finish top 4 and trade your current second for a future second chances are you move up the order. Closest you can get to 'stockpiling' picks
 

Lunchlady Doris

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Didn't say it was. It was a joking reply as to why Kelly would prefer not to traded to Freo to a Crows supporter.

Not everything is about you.
The Crows supporter was claiming Geelong should have let him go to the Eagles as he was clearly suffering. I can't believe I have to provide the context for a conversation you were having.
 

Max zero

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The Crows supporter was claiming Geelong should have let him go to the Eagles as he was clearly suffering. I can't believe I have to provide the context for a conversation you were having.
Okay here is a quick little exercise to help you understand.

Imagine if the Crows were twice as rich and twice as successful as they are right now. Feels good doesn't it? That's West Coast.

Now imagine if Port were half as successful and twice as feral as they are right now. Scary thought isn't it? That's Freo.

Now with that in mind Tim Kelly wanting to play for West Coast and not Freo makes perfect sense on both a personal and professional level does it not?
Can't believe you thought this post was serious.

Maybe I should of added emojis? :think::think::think:
 

CatFan79

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Sep 25, 2004
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Just love how these WCE supporters thought Kelly was a walk-up to their club next season...

Now that Hill is leaving, Freo is a potential destination club for Kelly..

Hope he stays though.
 

Bring back Moloney

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I think (hope) his point is that it is difficult to take Kelly's compassionate plea seriously if he wasn't willing to go to Freo. If he just said, "I want to play for West Coast" then I don't think there is a problem. It just looked inconsistent.

FTR, I have absolutely no issue with him wanting to go to only West Coast. In the same way, I have no problem with Geelong wanting more for him at trade.
Yeah, that’s exactly my point. It boiled down to “I want to go to West Coast”.

It wasn’t “I need to get home desperately, we just can’t survive here, please get me home.”

This year, I believe Geelong will have no problem with that scenario. Last year however, after just 1 season, that’s way different. We were more than entitled to play hardball. The compassionate grounds that people like to swing around, as if Geelong was somehow being cruel to TK is a complete joke.
 

Freoforever86

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Just love how these WCE supporters thought Kelly was a walk-up to their club next season...

Now that Hill is leaving, Freo is a potential destination club for Kelly..

Hope he stays though.
Hill is more likely to stay than leave.

He is Brownlow medal favourite so if anything his stocks have risen
Definitely risen, but still uncontracted. It’s one of the more tricky trade scenarios of recent time. Really hard to judge appropriate value.

Should do the Josh Kelly 2 year deal with options and stay at Geelong
 

West World

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Yeah, that’s exactly my point. It boiled down to “I want to go to West Coast”.

It wasn’t “I need to get home desperately, we just can’t survive here, please get me home.”

This year, I believe Geelong will have no problem with that scenario. Last year however, after just 1 season, that’s way different. We were more than entitled to play hardball. The compassionate grounds that people like to swing around, as if Geelong was somehow being cruel to TK is a complete joke.
Whats the difference between last years request and this years because of compassionate grounds?

And there is obviously levels of need. Family struggling and would rather be home. Life would be much easier but not a desperate situation. The want to move for family support is real but for the longer term benefits thaeystayed another year.

Nothing strange about that. Happens all the time with young families.
 
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