Uncontracted Tim Kelly

fpm84

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Lol you don't pay 2 first round picks for a bloke that is out of contract and only been in the system for 2 years. No matter how good they are. Any suggestions of being considered on par with the Shield trade are ludicrous.
Most neutral supporters disagree with you.

The entirety of Shiel's accolades at GWS were 1x All Australian and 1x Rising Star nomination.

He's a very good player but so is Kelly.

Unless Kelly's form drops off a cliff from here, or he gets injured, by the end of the year he will also have 1x All Australian, 1x B&F in a team that looks likely to be top 4 and a very high placing in the Brownlow (potentially winning it).

The only possible argument for their trade value not being equal is that Shiel was contracted and Kelly won't be if he requests a trade.
 

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sr36

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It's a narrow way of looking at it. Value is arbitrary, so people will argue what is fair and what isn't for every trade.

We don't know what Dylan Shiel would have been traded for last year if he was out of contract, that's hypothetical. But we do know that GWS were happy to let him explore his options ahead of free agency and happy to retain him for 2019 if no suitable offer was presented. I don't know how anyone can argue that clubs have stronger leverage with contracted players allowing them to get the best deal, but when players are out of contract that isn't something that may drive the trade value down. That's nuts. Not a chance in hell Adelaide take picks 9 and 28 and Dean Gore in 2014 when Dangerfield is under contract.

If you have an out of contract player that has nominated a club they wish to join and that club doesn't have draft picks of commensurate value then that is not a position you want to be in. We got pick 28 for Brad Ebert. Now he wasn't a superstar but a 21 year old pick 13 with 76 games in 4 years was someone we wanted to retain. Most of us thought something in the range of 15-25 was fair, and Port had 6 and 28. We got 28 and that's how trading works a lot of the time.
I agree that it's nuts or trolling , if its the same person saying both, but its pretty easy to conflate bigfooty into one opinion, when in reality it's often different people saying pay a premium for a contracted guy than those who say no discount for out of contract.

I'm not sure why you think wanting some examples to support a theory before believing it is a narrow view. I'd argue the opposite.

I just can't see evidence to support the view that there is an uncontracted discount, and considering the draft hasnt been used in the way its supposed to produce a threat and the supposed discount, I see no reason to believe it.

Having said that, most players get where they want to go, because you don't want an unhappy player in your list, but that applies with or without contract.
 

WilloTree

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Some other trades that may be similar:

Tim Mitchell and Pick 57
for
Pick 14 and Pick 52

Jaeger O'Meara
for
Pick 10 and 2017 Second Round Pick

Patrick Dangerfield and Pick 50
for
Dean Gore, Pick 9 and Pick 28

Jack Redden
for
Pick 17

Chris Yarren
for
Pick 19

Jake Stringer
for
Pick 25 and Pick 30

Charlie Cameron
for
Pick 12
 
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Most neutral supporters disagree with you.

The entirety of Shiel's accolades at GWS were 1x All Australian and 1x Rising Star nomination.

He's a very good player but so is Kelly.

Unless Kelly's form drops off a cliff from here, or he gets injured, by the end of the year he will also have 1x All Australian, 1x B&F in a team that looks likely to be top 4 and a very high placing in the Brownlow (potentially winning it).

The only possible argument for their trade value not being equal is that Shiel was contracted and Kelly won't be if he requests a trade.
Fair point, and you may have changed my mind.
GWS held firm, with what they wanted , Just like Gellong did last year, well within your rights. However, like you said, if he asks for a trade to West Coast, then the compensation won't be the same as GWS received for Shiel because he won't be contracted.
Im my opinion a first round pick will get it done. Depending how high or low that is will determine the other factors in the trade.
You do have to look after your club but if a player refuses to sign on with you, your bargaining chips deminish two fold.
 

sr36

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Some other trades that may be similar:

Tim Mitchell and Pick 57
for
Pick 14 and Pick 52

Jaeger O'Meara
for
Pick 10 and 2017 Second Round Pick

Patrick Dangerfield and Pick 50
for
Dean Gore, Pick 9 and Pick 28

Jack Redden
for
Pick 17

Chris Yarren
for
Pick 19

Jake Stringer
for
Pick 25 and Pick 30

Charlie Cameron
for
Pick 12
Do you know which of these were uncontracted?
 

foxdog50

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AFL Round Table: Just how much is Geelong star Tim Kelly worth?
play
Roughead's attitude exemplary - O'Meara (0:57)
14 May, 2019
  • Niall Seewang, Jake Michaels and Matt Walsh
Our AFL experts Niall Seewang, Jake Michaels and Matt Walsh dissect all of the main talking points ahead of Round 9.
What is Tim Kelly worth?
NS: In dollar terms, $1 million per year, at least. On the trade table, two early first-round picks. The Bombers paid two first rounders for Dylan Shiel -- with the Giants' second-round pick heading back to the Dons -- so Kelly has to be worth more because he's now one of the top handful of players in the league. If he did seek a return to Western Australia, the Dockers and Eagles should throw everything at this remarkable second-year player.

ADVERTISEMENT

JM: With every game he plays, Kelly seems to go up in value. If I was in charge of Geelong, West Coast or Fremantle -- or any other club in the league for that matter -- I'd be very comfortable making him a one-million-dollar-per-season-man. Yes, he's already 24, but remember he's only played 31 games and probably has more upside than just about any other player out there. That's really scary!
MW: Whatever a club will pay him is the cop-out answer! In terms of picks, Shiel is the benchmark and any club sniffing around the Cattery will need to be prepared to part with one very high or two first rounders in order to facilitate a trade with the Cats. At his best he is a top five player in the competition and his consistency is getting better in his second season. In terms of cash, $1 million isn't out of the question

http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...le-just-how-much-geelong-star-tim-kelly-worth
 

year of the cat

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AFL Round Table: Just how much is Geelong star Tim Kelly worth?
play
Roughead's attitude exemplary - O'Meara (0:57)
14 May, 2019
  • Niall Seewang, Jake Michaels and Matt Walsh
Our AFL experts Niall Seewang, Jake Michaels and Matt Walsh dissect all of the main talking points ahead of Round 9.
What is Tim Kelly worth?
NS: In dollar terms, $1 million per year, at least. On the trade table, two early first-round picks. The Bombers paid two first rounders for Dylan Shiel -- with the Giants' second-round pick heading back to the Dons -- so Kelly has to be worth more because he's now one of the top handful of players in the league. If he did seek a return to Western Australia, the Dockers and Eagles should throw everything at this remarkable second-year player.

ADVERTISEMENT

JM: With every game he plays, Kelly seems to go up in value. If I was in charge of Geelong, West Coast or Fremantle -- or any other club in the league for that matter -- I'd be very comfortable making him a one-million-dollar-per-season-man. Yes, he's already 24, but remember he's only played 31 games and probably has more upside than just about any other player out there. That's really scary!
MW: Whatever a club will pay him is the cop-out answer! In terms of picks, Shiel is the benchmark and any club sniffing around the Cattery will need to be prepared to part with one very high or two first rounders in order to facilitate a trade with the Cats. At his best he is a top five player in the competition and his consistency is getting better in his second season. In terms of cash, $1 million isn't out of the question

http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...le-just-how-much-geelong-star-tim-kelly-worth

But, but but, Scotland thinks otherwise so it must be wrong...
 

greatwhiteshark

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But, but but, Scotland thinks otherwise so it must be wrong...
Reckon that’s a bit harsh mate, Scotland has a view and he has provided it on numerous occasions. It doesn’t mean he is right it’s just his view. Every trade is different, some go for more than player worth some don’t.
Bottom line is until TK says I want to come home and go to West Coast then it’s all irrelevant.
But make no mistake if he does the Eagles will do what’s required to get him.
 

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Pure_Ownage

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Reckon that’s a bit harsh mate, Scotland has a view and he has provided it on numerous occasions. It doesn’t mean he is right it’s just his view. Every trade is different, some go for more than player worth some don’t.
Bottom line is until TK says I want to come home and go to West Coast then it’s all irrelevant.
But make no mistake if he does the Eagles will do what’s required to get him.
You didnt do what was required last year i dont know why you would assume your club will this year.
 

greatwhiteshark

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Prochard123

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Currently I have him as a top 10 midfielder, absolutely no chance he goes for less than Eagles' 2 1st rounders. Would be #1 mid at eagles, probably # 1 mid at pies as well
 

Holy Rioli

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Currently I have him as a top 10 midfielder, absolutely no chance he goes for less than Eagles' 2 1st rounders. Would be #1 mid at eagles, probably # 1 mid at pies as well
Does anyone actually watch him play? He's an absolute ******* butcher when it comes to kicking the ball.
 

Turbocat

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Reckon that’s a bit harsh mate, Scotland has a view and he has provided it on numerous occasions. It doesn’t mean he is right it’s just his view. Every trade is different, some go for more than player worth some don’t.
Bottom line is until TK says I want to come home and go to West Coast then it’s all irrelevant.
But make no mistake if he does the Eagles will do what’s required to get him.
I should hope so... it seems like he has been left at the alter a bit ..

Id expect by july , if TK has not signed then there will be a call made for coffee and cake and sitdown ... to try to determine "what is required".. to try to get a bit of preplan happening so it happens smoothly.
 

year of the cat

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Prochard123

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Does anyone actually watch him play? He's an absolute ******* butcher when it comes to kicking the ball.
So are Mitchell, Fyfe, Danger, Cripps Oliver etc?...

The only good mids that can kick well are kelly, pendles, macrae etc but they're worse on the inside. No player is perfect, you do understand that right?
 

greatwhiteshark

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I should hope so... it seems like he has been left at the alter a bit ..

Id expect by july , if TK has not signed then there will be a call made for coffee and cake and sitdown ... to try to determine "what is required".. to try to get a bit of preplan happening so it happens smoothly.
Let’s hope so. I don’t think you can play the footy he is if you’re not in a good head space so I reckon he is really enjoying his time at the Cats. The pull of course with a young family to be home in WA is going to be the deciding factor which we all know.
I’d love to have him in our midfield and hope we can get him but none of us really know.
 

Holy Rioli

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So are Mitchell, Fyfe, Danger, Cripps Oliver etc?...

The only good mids that can kick well are kelly, pendles, macrae etc but they're worse on the inside. No player is perfect, you do understand that right?
I'm not expecting any player to be perfect. But he's easily the worst kick of the footy (contested or uncontested) of any major ball winning mids in the comp. For now anyway, Sam Walsh will probably take this mantle from him soon enough.
 

year of the cat

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I'm not expecting any player to be perfect. But he's easily the worst kick of the footy (contested or uncontested) of any major ball winning mids in the comp. For now anyway, Sam Walsh will probably take this mantle from him soon enough.
His kicking is much better this year than last. He’s now a very good kick. Probably not elite but it’s no longer a weakness.
 

Prochard123

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I'm not expecting any player to be perfect. But he's easily the worst kick of the footy (contested or uncontested) of any major ball winning mids in the comp. For now anyway, Sam Walsh will probably take this mantle from him soon enough.
have u seen cripps kick?

actually probably not all he knows is how to handball and even then he misses his targets half the times...

BUT REGARDLESS, still an elite mid and one of the most valuable players in the comp... so my point is, u cant just discount kelly for his kicking especially when it's not even that bad
 
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