Recommitted Tim Kelly [requested a trade to West Coast]

[greatwhiteshark]

A lot of key forwards shoe promising signs their first two AFL seasons with contributions at the level. Brander to date has shown nothing and will have dropped in stocks.

Majority of the elite key forwards show quality signs their first two seasons at AFL, in fact almost all of them bar a small sample do and brander hasn’t.

His stocks will have fallen drastically if he sits in the WAFL for a second year straight and in no way is he first round value based on his AFL career so far.

Probably a little harsh on him as getting a game at west coast as a tall forward is not that easy at the minute.

 

[Obeanie1]

Where did I mention anything about ruthlessly winning “games”?

This is the trade thread.
We’re talking about ruthlessness at the trade table

Well your own CEO said at the start of that year they (interview)fully expected to play finals and considering you d played final for 3 years straight previously with a squad with just about the most A graders of any club and in the sweet spot age wise for contending I hardly think at least making the finals was a surprise

The only person who wrote you off completely was Robert walls
And he’s a dead set idiot

Come on do I need to draw a picture?

If the Eagles finished 6th instead of 1st the trade would be there about's. Out of the top eight and the Suns were laughing.

How can a club be ruthless trading future picks when the following year it surprised everyone including themselves? And there were quite a few more other than Walls tipping the Eagles to miss finals.

And as to what the CEO said preseason can you show me any CEO who doesn't talk their clubs hopes up preseason as they try and sell memberships? That is one flimsy argument.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Probably a little harsh on him as getting a game at west coast as a tall forward is not that easy at the minute.

Fair point to be considered but it still means he hasn’t shown anything in two seasons at AFL level by the time he is 20. Does drop your stocks.

How exactly do you think west coast will find a top ten pick? Kelly would be one of the hot brownlow fancies atm with lachie neale and a few others. He is clearly worth the price.

Two pick 20’s obviously doesn’t cut it either

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Come on do I need to draw a picture?

If the Eagles finished 6th instead of 1st the trade would be there about's. Out of the top eight and the Suns were laughing.

How can a club be ruthless trading future picks when the following year it surprised everyone including themselves? And there were quite a few more other than Walls tipping the Eagles to miss finals.

And as to what the CEO said preseason can you show me any CEO who doesn't talk their clubs hopes up preseason as they try and sell memberships? That is one flimsy argument.

If you finished 6th it would make it easy for you to package up for a top ten for kelly.

 

[kane249]

A lot of key forwards shoe promising signs their first two AFL seasons with contributions at the level. Brander to date has shown nothing and will have dropped in stocks.

Majority of the elite key forwards show quality signs their first two seasons at AFL, in fact almost all of them bar a small sample do and brander hasn’t.

His stocks will have fallen drastically if he sits in the WAFL for a second year straight and in no way is he first round value based on his AFL career so far.

Clutching at straws mate, key forward don’t hit their straps this early so only a fool would see them as having lost value so far.

He’s also sitting behind:
Kennedy and Darling for a forward spot
McGovern, Barrass and Schofield for a defensive spot

He’s not sitting in the WAFL because he’s no good, he sitting there because the current senior players are better. Again, he’s only just turned 20.

We have the luxury of developing him in the WAFL properly instead of throwing him to the wolves at senior level.

With Kennedy close to the end we can develop him as his replacement and not rush things.

It’s a slow burn but proper football development. If you think that somehow makes him gettable as regressing, then you have a bit to learn.

 

[kane249]

Fair point to be considered but it still means he hasn’t shown anything in two seasons at AFL level by the time he is 20. Does drop your stocks.

Kelly wasn’t good enough to be drafted at 20 and you asking 3 first rounder for him, a little perspective for you.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Fair point to be considered but it still means he hasn’t shown anything in two seasons at AFL level by the time he is 20. Does drop your stocks.

How exactly do you think west coast will find a top ten pick? Kelly would be one of the hot brownlow fancies atm with lachie neale and a few others. He is clearly worth the price.

Two pick 20’s obviously doesn’t cut it either

I do agree with you on where Kelly sits at the moment.

 

[Obeanie1]

If you finished 6th it would make it easy for you to package up for a top ten for kelly.

Sorry but we will take the flag and pick 18>20 instead!

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Lol, if Geelong came with that deal to Rawlings he would drive Brander to the airport with his bags packed and a first class ticket

Would you swap cerra for kelly ?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Kelly wasn’t good enough to be drafted at 20 and you asking 3 first rounder for him, a little perspective for you.

With all due respect he probably was more than good enough, 18 clubs unfortunately had their head in the sand.

 

[kane249]

With all due respect he probably was more than good enough, 18 clubs unfortunately had their head in the sand.

As a South Fremantle supporter I can tell you he really wasn’t. It was only around 2014-2015 he lifted his fitness to and improved as a player.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

It was just a sign of good Will and discussed between the clubs they would go to the trade table for a free agent. It was all class of geelong to do so as nobody else across free agency has done so

That is complete bull crap . Geelong weren't willing to price danger out of Adelaides reach as they have a pay structure that selwood was the highest payed and danger was on a little bit less to not rock the boat .

Adelaide made it clear that they were not happy with the FA compo and were going to match and force a trade .

They just cut out the whole process of free agency to save time . Geelong did about 4 trades that year and needed dangers done quickly.

This ' it was all class from geelong ' is just bullshit

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Would you swap cerra for kelly ?

There are multiple parts to that trade and also why your retort is stupid
a) We have no midfield depth, we cant be trading out young midfielders to get another midfielder unless they request it
b) If it looks like at the end of the year that we are in a premiership window, I would actually have to think about it since the immediate upgrade might push us over the edge
c) Cerra is actually getting games and has shown something at AFL level
d) You have Waterman destroying the WAFL, Allen who is arguably detrimental to your forwardline balance. Brander is completely surplus at this stage and is realistically behind Kennedy, Darling, Allen and Waterman for a spot in your forwardline at this stage.
e) A more accurate trade theoretical would be a straight swap for Cox who has actually shown a lot at AFL level and the answer is yes, I would trade him for Kelly

 

[captain cotch 9]

man id laugh if he went to another vic club.

 

[kane249]

There are multiple parts to that trade and also why your retort is stupid
a) We have no midfield depth, we cant be trading out young midfielders to get another midfielder unless they request it
b) If it looks like at the end of the year that we are in a premiership window, I would actually have to think about it since the immediate upgrade might push us over the edge
c) Cerra is actually getting games and has shown something at AFL level
d) You have Waterman destroying the WAFL, Allen who is arguably detrimental to your forwardline balance. Brander is completely surplus at this stage and is realistically behind Kennedy, Darling, Allen and Waterman for a spot in your forwardline at this stage.
e) A more accurate trade theoretical would be a straight swap for Cox who has actually shown a lot at AFL level and the answer is yes, I would trade him for Kelly

For context, one of the trades floated on the Cats board was a first rounder + Cerra for Kelly amongst others

FWIW I think Brander will be better than Allen and Waterman. The latter are a bit short to play as your first KPF but Brander could do this.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

For context, one of the trades floated on the Cats board was a first rounder + Cerra for Kelly amongst others

FWIW I think Brander will be better than Allen and Waterman. The latter are a bit short to play as your first KPF but Brander could do this.

I'm not going to go around pulling up every dumb trade suggestion but the idea of not doing a direct swap of Brander for Kelly is ridiculous given your list balance

 

[kane249]

I'm not going to go around pulling up every dumb trade suggestion but the idea of not doing a direct swap of Brander for Kelly is ridiculous given your list balance

It was a pisstake, but some of the other trades being floated the other way is just as bad.

Waterman is most likely to move, but due to his last name that will be difficult. He's at a tweener height so he might need to push further up the ground if he's going to make it at AFL level.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

There are multiple parts to that trade and also why your retort is stupid
a) We have no midfield depth, we cant be trading out young midfielders to get another midfielder unless they request it
b) If it looks like at the end of the year that we are in a premiership window, I would actually have to think about it since the immediate upgrade might push us over the edge
c) Cerra is actually getting games and has shown something at AFL level
d) You have Waterman destroying the WAFL, Allen who is arguably detrimental to your forwardline balance. Brander is completely surplus at this stage and is realistically behind Kennedy, Darling, Allen and Waterman for a spot in your forwardline at this stage.
e) A more accurate trade theoretical would be a straight swap for Cox who has actually shown a lot at AFL level and the answer is yes, I would trade him for Kelly

Thats the freo i love know nothing about developing key forwards or succession plans .

Kennedy is on his last legs . I dont think he will do a pavlich and play past his used by date .

Waterman is not a KPP . He is only 190cms .

I've seen brander play a dozen times over the last 2 year both on tv and live and this kid oozes talent and class . He was skinny and raw when drafted and knowing West Coast his development wont be rushed .
He can play both ends of the ground and is now playing on a wing at wafl level .

Both kennedy and mcgovern say Brander is the best KPP that has come though the club since they have been there .

Why would we trade such a commodity when we can trade some picks

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

It was a pisstake, but some of the other trades being floated the other way is just as bad

Given the guy that said it hasnt clarified it was a pisstake and responded to my query with one about Cerra and followed it up with another one, he is either trolling and should be removed or clearly isnt taking the piss

For what its worth I would think that in a "market value" scenario is worth slightly less than Neale given Neale has more runs on the board but they are currently a similar calibre player. Kelly is also uncontracted so that brings down his value

1 pick between 5 and 10 would be spot on his value personally

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Thats the freo i love know nothing about developing key forwards or succession plans .

Kennedy is on his last legs . I dont think he will do a pavlich and play past his used by date .

Waterman is not a KPP . He is only 190cms .

I've seen brander play a dozen times over the last 2 year both on tv and live and this kid oozes talent and class . He was skinny and raw when drafted and knowing West Coast his development wont be rushed .
He can play both ends of the ground and is now playing on a wing at wafl level .

Both kennedy and mcgovern say Brander is the best KPP that has come though the club since they have been there .

Why would we trade such a commodity when we can trade some picks

Given you resorted to attacks on Freo I assume you are just trolling but I cbf working so;

Your opinion on how good Brander is doesnt matter until he does something at AFL level

Team players have very high praise for young player in their team, no way?

You would trade a commodity so highly valued that he is behind the other young KPFs on your list because he is not worth your two very late firsts and Kelly is worth more than two very late firsts as evidenced by recent trade history of the value of AA calibre players and young KPFs who cant get a game with no proven ability to perform at AFL level

 

[Obeanie1]

A lot of key forwards shoe promising signs their first two AFL seasons with contributions at the level. Brander to date has shown nothing and will have dropped in stocks.

Majority of the elite key forwards show quality signs their first two seasons at AFL, in fact almost all of them bar a small sample do and brander hasn’t.

His stocks will have fallen drastically if he sits in the WAFL for a second year straight and in no way is he first round value based on his AFL career so far.

Most elite forwards show quality signs in their first two seasons?

Care to provide examples?

How many of those were drafted to a premiership side with two established star kp forwards?

Its no wonder Cats fans are interested in Brander. Hawkins getting on and Rategalea is struggling after that broken leg.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Given you resorted to attacks on Freo I assume you are just trolling but I cbf working so;

Your opinion on how good Brander is doesnt matter until he does something at AFL level

Team players have very high praise for young player in their team, no way?

You would trade a commodity so highly valued that he is behind the other young KPFs on your list because he is not worth your two very late firsts and Kelly is worth more than two very late firsts as evidenced by recent trade history of the value of AA calibre players and young KPFs who cant get a game with no proven ability to perform at AFL level

Discounting branders ability because he hasn't played much afl then stating kelly is an AA caliber player yet never won an AA award ? False logic

Sure kelly is worth more in a trade atm than brander is but in 2-3 years time when WCE have ' found another gun ' KPP what will there trade value be ?

This is the problem with people being short sighted about talls . Because they take longer to develop and dont have immediate impact people think their value drops .

Clubs dont think that way and its why brander as part of the kelly trade wont happen .

This is why I wouldnt swap kelly for brander. We have a great midfield already

I would also prefere coniglio over kelly

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Discounting branders ability because he hasn't played much afl then stating kelly is an AA caliber player yet never won an AA award ? False logic

Sure kelly is worth more in a trade atm than brander is but in 2-3 years time when WCE have ' found another gun ' KPP what will there trade value be ?

This is the problem with people being short sighted about talls . Because they take longer to develop and dont have immediate impact people think their value drops .

Clubs dont think that way and its why brander as part of the kelly trade wont happen .

This is why I wouldnt swap kelly for brander. We have a great midfield already

I would prefere also coniglio over kelly

It wont happen because Stephen Wells would be fired on the spot if he tried to do that trade. Unfortunately, the Eagles drafting and development history doesnt factor into what Branders value is and you dont get to value at what he MIGHT be in 2-3 years. Trades are done based on player value now, taking into account the potential for growth as well as the potential to be a spud.

I would imagine almost every club would value Coniglio > Kelly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brander, including the Eagles whether you like to admit it or not.

You can stick to completely ridiculous opinion though, its entirely your right

 

[ghostbat12]

It wont happen because Stephen Wells would be fired on the spot if he tried to do that trade. Unfortunately, the Eagles drafting and development history doesnt factor into what Branders value is and you dont get to value at what he MIGHT be in 2-3 years. Trades are done based on player value now, taking into account the potential for growth as well as the potential to be a spud.

I would imagine almost every club would value Coniglio > Kelly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brander, including the Eagles whether you like to admit it or not.

You can stick to completely ridiculous opinion though, its entirely your right

No, trades are done based on value and heavily changed by leverage. More so than potential for growth or spudness.

Whether you like it or not.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Kelly wasn’t good enough to be drafted at 20 and you asking 3 first rounder for him, a little perspective for you.

James worpel wasn’t good enough to be drafted in the top 30, how do you think hawthorn would feel about trading him for a similar pick?? Just a stupid way to look at it. All that matters is what happens in the AFL