Tim Lane - Time for a Tasmanian Team

catman2006

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Wihtout question, but it doesn't look like anyone's got the drive now to do the legwork required anyway.
Like i've said before, the best chance of Tassie getting an AFL side is getting 10-15,000 bums on seats at Devils matches

They are doing the business plan as we speak but AFL Tasmania are keeping the cards close to their chest.
Hence the transparency issue that the public have with AFL Tas.
No one knows where they are up to.
 

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Hawkk

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They are doing the business plan as we speak but AFL Tasmania are keeping the cards close to their chest.
Hence the transparency issue that the public have with AFL Tas.
No one knows where they are up to.
They've been 'doing the business plan' for 20 years...the sad reality is that unless the media and the AFL jump on the Tasmanian bandwagon - ala Gold Coast and NSW, Tasmania have no chance of netting their own side. Clayton - the Bulldogs recruiting manager that for one reason or another is on the 7 man board, has openly quoted in so many words that the AFL has shown no interest in the venture.

Tasmania's only chance of getting a license IMO comes on the back of the AFL 2nd tier division review. If the Tassie Devils can be included in an Eastern seaboard 2nd tier competition AND they draw consistant 15-20,000 crowds with huge corporate and member support - both highly unlikely, then they stand a remote chance of drawing the attention of the AFL...but even then they are behind SEQ and WS - 10-15 years off themselves.

Realisitically Tasmania needs a massive population and economic boom as well as a renewed interest in the game from corporate backers, if it stands any chance at all.
 

catman2006

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They've been 'doing the business plan' for 20 years...the sad reality is that unless the media and the AFL jump on the Tasmanian bandwagon - ala Gold Coast and NSW, Tasmania have no chance of netting their own side. Clayton - the Bulldogs recruiting manager that for one reason or another is on the 7 man board, has openly quoted in so many words that the AFL has shown no interest in the venture.

Tasmania's only chance of getting a license IMO comes on the back of the AFL 2nd tier division review. If the Tassie Devils can be included in an Eastern seaboard 2nd tier competition AND they draw consistant 15-20,000 crowds with huge corporate and member support - both highly unlikely, then they stand a remote chance of drawing the attention of the AFL...but even then they are behind SEQ and WS - 10-15 years off themselves.

Realisitically Tasmania needs a massive population and economic boom as well as a renewed interest in the game from corporate backers, if it stands any chance at all.
Bottom line is
Why would the AFL be interested in Tasmania if their is no competition in the market down there.

They have really only got serious about a business plan last 3 years.

Tasmanian team does not need a economic and population boom.
Plenty of expat tasmanians living around Australia who will add to the support base, and most major sponsors of AFL clubs only sponsor because of the national coverage not state coverage.
 

fishmonger

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Thread starter #229
Plenty of expat tasmanians living around Australia who will add to the support base, and most major sponsors of AFL clubs only sponsor because of the national coverage not state coverage.
not just around Australia, Tasmanians are big overseas travellers also.

Mary, Crown Princess of Denmark could even be their #1 ticket holder.
 

fishmonger

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Bottom line is
Why would the AFL be interested in Tasmania if their is no competition in the market down there.
On the contrary, this is why A-League are interested and why the AFL should be interested.

Contrast this with the GC, where in 3 years, the AFL will be competing for marketshare against several professional sporting teams including:

* Titans (NRL) 2007-
* East Coast Aces (National Rugby Union) 2007-
* Gold Coast Blaze (NBL) 2007-
* an A-League club ~2010-

That is far from a captive audience ...
 

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Bottom line is
Why would the AFL be interested in Tasmania if their is no competition in the market down there.
Because they don't have much to gain bringing a Tasmanian side into the competition - certainly not enough to justify the subsidies.

They have really only got serious about a business plan last 3 years.
No they haven't.

Their biggest and most extensive review was conducted under the leadership of Jim Bacon, Peter Hudson and the AFL during the late 1990's/early 2000's. When it was concluded that under the current condititions Tasmania doesn't have the capacity to support a side both now and into the future, the push virtually backed off significantly.

The people in involved in the supposed 'buisness plan' today - Scott Clayton, Alaister Lynch and Scott Wade, are mere shadows of the Hudson's and Bacon's of past years.

I know for example the Hawks used the information from the 2000 report as justification to establish a secondary market in the state.

Tasmanian team does not need a economic and population boom.
Yes it does - why do you think the AFL is so keen on the Gold Coast.

I don't think there is any debate that Victoria cannot sustain 10 clubs in Victoria, 1 Tasmanian side will be the equivalent of 12 Victorian sides in the medium term.

Plenty of expat tasmanians living around Australia who will add to the support base, and most major sponsors of AFL clubs only sponsor because of the national coverage not state coverage.
I notice you still haven't answewed my point about the actual support base for a Tasmanian side...
 

Hawkk

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On the contrary, this is why A-League are interested and why the AFL should be interested.

Contrast this with the GC, where in 3 years, the AFL will be competing for marketshare against several professional sporting teams including:

* Titans (NRL) 2007-
* East Coast Aces (National Rugby Union) 2007-
* Gold Coast Blaze (NBL) 2007-
* an A-League club ~2010-

That is far from a captive audience ...
Big difference in the costs between running a football club and an A-League club.

To put it into perspective, the market leader of the A-League (Melbourne Victory) turns over 12-15,000,000 dollars across the year. In contrast the market leader of the AFL (Collingwood) is set to turnover 50,000,000 dollars this season.
 

catman2006

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Because they don't have much to gain bringing a Tasmanian side into the competition - certainly not enough to justify the subsidies.



No they haven't.

Their biggest and most extensive review was conducted under the leadership of Jim Bacon, Peter Hudson and the AFL during the late 1990's/early 2000's. When it was concluded that under the current condititions Tasmania doesn't have the capacity to support a side both now and into the future, the push virtually backed off significantly.

The people in involved in the supposed 'buisness plan' today - Scott Clayton, Alaister Lynch and Scott Wade, are mere shadows of the Hudson's and Bacon's of past years.

I know for example the Hawks used the information from the 2000 report as justification to establish a secondary market in the state.



Yes it does - why do you think the AFL is so keen on the Gold Coast.

I don't think there is any debate that Victoria cannot sustain 10 clubs in Victoria, 1 Tasmanian side will be the equivalent of 12 Victorian sides in the medium term.



I notice you still haven't answewed my point about the actual support base for a Tasmanian side...


When all the interstate teams came in they had no support base at the start just like a Tasmanian side , yet over a 10 year period they have left most victorian teams for dead.

You your self have indicated that Hawthorn has grown it's support base in Tasmania by playing there and being a victorian team not hard to work out a Tasmanian team playing in Tasmania would get a lot more, you have to start playing for people to get the passion young kids start signing up as members and you have a long term support base, it's no difference to any of the other clubs.

They did a study back in the mid 90's and found a couple problems that would limit a Tasmanian side, biggest of them all was a suitable venue.
Because of that study AFL Tasmania was set up in 1999 to rectify the problems that existed.

It takes time to do diligence no one is saying a Tasmanian side will come in the next 3 years.
 

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ive been to north hobart oval with 22000 in it. the tfl and afl had an opportunity to buy land next to the oval to increase ground size and capacity but declined. logic tells me people will not travel 2 hrs to get to a footy match so logic also tells me a ground should be where the biggest concentration of people are and thats hobart.
to me the logical place for a purpose built stadium is on the site of the old tca ground on the hobart domain. basically in the city with enough parking for 50 000.
of course when it comes to footy in tas and the afl logic goes out the window.
to me the biggest hurdles to a tasmanian team is travel parochialism and the rabid support most tasmanians have for existing melb based teams.
if tasmania had the population i wouldnt hestitate in placing a team in the north and one down south what a rivalry that would be. alas its all just a pipe dream.
 

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ive been to north hobart oval with 22000 in it. the tfl and afl had an opportunity to buy land next to the oval to increase ground size and capacity but declined. logic tells me people will not travel 2 hrs to get to a footy match so logic also tells me a ground should be where the biggest concentration of people are and thats hobart.
to me the logical place for a purpose built stadium is on the site of the old tca ground on the hobart domain. basically in the city with enough parking for 50 000.
of course when it comes to footy in tas and the afl logic goes out the window.
to me the biggest hurdles to a tasmanian team is travel parochialism and the rabid support most tasmanians have for existing melb based teams.
if tasmania had the population i wouldnt hestitate in placing a team in the north and one down south what a rivalry that would be. alas its all just a pipe dream.
22,000 at that tiny mud hole ...you were dreamin or on drugs :rolleyes:

oh and the population in Tassie is evenly spread between the north and the south of the state ..so don't try and give us this Hobart population garbage .
 

catman2006

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ive been to north hobart oval with 22000 in it. the tfl and afl had an opportunity to buy land next to the oval to increase ground size and capacity but declined. logic tells me people will not travel 2 hrs to get to a footy match so logic also tells me a ground should be where the biggest concentration of people are and thats hobart.
to me the logical place for a purpose built stadium is on the site of the old tca ground on the hobart domain. basically in the city with enough parking for 50 000.
of course when it comes to footy in tas and the afl logic goes out the window.
to me the biggest hurdles to a tasmanian team is travel parochialism and the rabid support most tasmanians have for existing melb based teams.
if tasmania had the population i wouldnt hestitate in placing a team in the north and one down south what a rivalry that would be. alas its all just a pipe dream.

North Hobart was a shocker with a big crowd, you could not move, mind you still better then queenborough with a big crowd.
 

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catman2006

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22,000 at that tiny mud hole ...you were dreamin or on drugs :rolleyes:

oh and the population in Tassie is evenly spread between the north and the south of the state ..so don't try and give us this Hobart population garbage .
Didn't attend many grand finals did you.
North v South is even in population, but of the 4 main cities Hobart is the largest
 

Blues_Man

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Didn't attend many grand finals did you.
North v South is even in population, but of the 4 main cities Hobart is the largest
I attended many a GF at that hole of a place ..and let me tell you there were never 22,000 there...10,000 would fill the place to bursting point ...oh and did i mention it was a hole.

who cares if Hobart is the largest city ..the only thing that matters is the population distribution of the state ...after all we are discussing a Tasmanian side not a Hobart side
 

catman2006

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I attended many a GF at that hole of a place ..and let me tell you there were never 22,000 there...10,000 would fill the place to bursting point ...oh and did i mention it was a hole.

who cares if Hobart is the largest city ..the only thing that matters is the population distribution of the state ...after all we are discussing a Tasmanian side not a Hobart side
You must of attended TFL in the 90's and i'm quite happy to see York park host the Tasmanian side.
 

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Didn't attend many grand finals did you.
North v South is even in population, but of the 4 main cities Hobart is the largest
Maybe the AFL could issue a split licence at a discount, just to get another big derby ala Freo vs West Coast or Port vs Adelaide. ;)

you people should get over your pissing contest.
 

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[/B]

When all the interstate teams came in they had no support base at the start just like a Tasmanian side , yet over a 10 year period they have left most victorian teams for dead.
That's the point, the WA and SA clubs had an entire population and economy to tap into. On a per capita basis, Fremantle and West Coast have a market of over 1,000,000 consumers to tap into.

The size of the Tasmanian market is actually smaller then the Victorian market cut 10 ways.

You your self have indicated that Hawthorn has grown it's support base in Tasmania by playing there and being a victorian team not hard to work out a Tasmanian team playing in Tasmania would get a lot more, you have to start playing for people to get the passion young kids start signing up as members and you have a long term support base, it's no difference to any of the other clubs.
Didn’t Tim Lane – along with other Tasmanian supporters on this thread, state that Hawthorn haven’t done anything but tap further into its existing support in Tasmania? To quote Lane, aren't the Hawks nothing but a 'fly-in' club to most Tasmanians?

They did a study back in the mid 90's and found a couple problems that would limit a Tasmanian side, biggest of them all was a suitable venue.
Because of that study AFL Tasmania was set up in 1999 to rectify the problems that existed.
Along with population, economic and corporate sponsorship projections, stadium and political issues are still major stumbling blocks.

It takes time to do diligence no one is saying a Tasmanian side will come in the next 3 years.
That’s the point I’m trying to make, the gap between Tasmania and the mainstream states is only going to increase over the next few years.

Tasmania's best chance to enter the VFL/AFL happened during the 1980's/90's - before the game went truely professional and the gap widened to the extent it has today.

Whether or not its right or not is up for debate, but the corporate $$$ is worth more to the league then grass roots supporters.
 

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You are now just making stuff up!

Do you really believe that Victorian clubs are paying $2.5million more per annum for stadium usage than clubs such as West Coast and Freo?

You are struggling now.
$5.5 million is based on a break even mark of around 30k, which is around the mark for TD and MCG. It is why Geelong say they make more money at Skilled with their small capacity stadium than selling out a TD game.

Making stuff up? How about you put up some facts to try and counter any arguement.

FWIW, West Coast managed an average crowd in Melbourne last year of 33,460. This was dragged down by a paltry effort by the Hawks which drew only 21,000. We managed crowds of 39000, 40000, 31000 and 35000 in the other 4 games.

North averaged 31,453 at games in Melbourne. Thats right, North Melbourne averaged lower crowds in Melbourne than the West Coast Eagles did.

You are a rabble!
We have a 25k membership base and approximately a 250k supporter base, we had the worst season in our history finishing in the bottom four and our crowd is comparable to a club who was in the grand final last the year before, favourite for the flag last year, has a 40k membership base and a supporter base of over 500k and you could barely pass us and call us a rabble?

The potential upside for us here is massive, where are you going to go from here? ;)

We averaged over 40k to games in Melbourne here in 05 when we were average. When we become a dominant team again our crowds here will be huge, we haven't even factored the bandwagon effect into our figures.
 

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$5.5 million is based on a break even mark of around 30k, which is around the mark for TD and MCG. It is why Geelong say they make more money at Skilled with their small capacity stadium than selling out a TD game.

Making stuff up? How about you put up some facts to try and counter any arguement.



We have a 25k membership base and approximately a 250k supporter base, we had the worst season in our history finishing in the bottom four and our crowd is comparable to a club who was in the grand final last the year before, favourite for the flag last year, has a 40k membership base and a supporter base of over 500k and you could barely pass us and call us a rabble?

The potential upside for us here is massive, where are you going to go from here? ;)

We averaged over 40k to games in Melbourne here in 05 when we were average. When we become a dominant team again our crowds here will be huge, we haven't even factored the bandwagon effect into our figures.
You are kidding arent you?

West Coast have operating revenues over 50% higher than Norf. We made a profit of $5m in 2006. We won a flag. We averaged more fans in Melbourne than a Melbourne based side (Norf) who argue that they need more home games to maximise revenue and yet you cant outdraw an interstate side?

North are so far off the mark it isnt funny. Your claims to massive crowds, bandwagon etc are laughable. It didnt happen in the 90's when you had your greatest side and player.

The WAFC rent arrangment with West Coast is complex but has been published and discussed on this board. The 30k breakeven at $5.5million is just a couple of numbers pulled out of your arse.

North are a rabble.

West Coast are the definitive anti-Norf. We are everything a modern club should be, Norf hark back to a pre-war era of chook raffles and friends and relations. Ahhh, the good old days.
 

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22,000 at that tiny mud hole ...you were dreamin or on drugs :rolleyes:

oh and the population in Tassie is evenly spread between the north and the south of the state ..so don't try and give us this Hobart population garbage .
Actually, the population in the North is more than south and also it is growing faster than the south. Hobart is too cold. No one wants to live in a city that can hardly make it pass 20 degrees in summer.
 

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Actually, the population in the North is more than south and also it is growing faster than the south. Hobart is too cold. No one wants to live in a city that can hardly make it pass 20 degrees in summer.
Tell that the the 5.4 million and growing number of Torontonians.

I personally don't mind the colder weather. I'd prefer it to the "drown in your own sweat" conditions of Brisbane, Cairns or Darwin.
 

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Actually, the population in the North is more than south and also it is growing faster than the south. Hobart is too cold. No one wants to live in a city that can hardly make it pass 20 degrees in summer.
Of course the North on the whole is more popultated than the south because down south there is Hobart and its outer suburbs, then wilderness and thats it.

To the North of the state, you have Launceston, Burnie and Devonport which are highly populated, but are a few hours apart from each other.

Hobart has the more condensed population, and is by far larger than Launcestion, Burnie and Devonport by themselves.

As for the weather its not too bad. Not much colder than Melbourne in the winter, and in the summer it gets pretty warm, but not the stinker you get in other parts of Australia.

Plus being so close to the hole in the ozone layer, you can really feel the heat too. Doesnt take much for you to get burnt.
 

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North Hobart Oval holds the top four ground attendance records in Tasmanian football history:
24,968 - Clarence v Glenorchy - 1979 TFL Grand Final.
24,413 - New Norfolk v Clarence - 1970 TFL Grand Final.
23,754 - Tasmania v Victoria - 1966 Australian National Football Carnival.
22,196 - Clarence v New Norfolk - 1981 TFL Grand Final.
i was looking for crowd attendances and struggled to find any where did you get them from. thanks
 

santa claws

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let me say until the introduction of the state wide competition in 86 or 87 i would bet the then tfl would have had numerous games close to 20 000.
 
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